Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
This week we are joined by Damian Fagon, Chief Equity Office of NY State of Cannabis management to discuss:
- How the NY Cannabis market will unfold
- Grey market
- MSOs in NY
- And so much more
About Damian
Mr. Fagon is a 3rd-generation farmer with a background in international development and agriculture. He has led development initiatives with castor farmers in Jamaica, rice growers in Sierra Leone, and coffee exporters in Guatemala. Since 2017, he has launched and advised commercial cannabis operations in South Carolina, New York, and the Caribbean. As Chief Equity Officer, Mr. Fagon will oversee the social and economic equity initiatives for the Office of Cannabis Management.
#Cannabis #Cannabiscommunity #NYCannabis
At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev), we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.
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Contact us directly at [email protected] Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24 Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney
[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s episode of the fields. And with me is always this Finn this week, we’ve got a very special guest Damien Fagan, chief equity officer for New York state management, Damien. Thanks for taking the time. How you doing
[00:00:14]Damian Fagon: today? I’m doing good guys. How are you guys doing? I’m doing well. How are you doing?
[00:00:21] I’m
[00:00:22]Bryan Fields: doing
[00:00:22]Kellan Finney: great, really excited to talk to Damien and looking forward to learning as much as we can about the New York cannabis market. How are
[00:00:29]Bryan Fields: you, Brian? I’m doing good. It’s really, it’s really nice of you to join us from Hawaii. And, uh, I guess, Damien, this is really important for the record. Uh, where are you located?
[00:00:39]Damian Fagon: Uh, well, I live in Manhattan. Um, I’ve probably lived in like five different neighborhoods in New York city. Just why I’ve been here about nine years. Um, so I, yeah, I’m doing this call from. East 66th street that gives us
[00:00:54]Bryan Fields: another east coaster Callen. So let the record stay so beginning for our listeners.
[00:00:59] Can you give a little [00:01:00] background about
[00:01:00]Damian Fagon: yourself? Yeah, for sure. Um, so I, uh, I was, uh, appointed to the position, uh, back in June. Um, prior to that I’ve done a lot of different jobs. Uh, but you know, my, my general background is, you know, economic development and international development, uh, primarily with the focus on agriculture.
[00:01:22] So, uh, I’ve spent a lot of time working with farmers. In a lot of different countries, um, a lot of different, uh, crops, but primarily looking at ways to add, um, you know, rev, revenue, generating activities, value, added activities, uh, for farmers, uh, to make more money on their crop, um, to increase exports, increase yields.
[00:01:44] And, and so, you know, when I entered the cannabis space, uh, I started looking at it in grad school back in 2015, and it was primarily through that lens that I was looking at cannabis. Um, a commodity crop, a cash crop that, um, held a ton of [00:02:00] value in terms of, you know, rural development, economic development, bottom up inclusive growth, you know, opportunity really, um, for a lot of low income communities, not just here in the states, but around the world.
[00:02:14] Talk to us about your
[00:02:15]Bryan Fields: role. How, how did you get involved with the office of, of cannabis management? And was it something that you sought that was something that you always wanted to aspire to take us? Take us
[00:02:23]Damian Fagon: to that. Yeah. Uh, it’s pretty unique, uh, story actually. So no, I, I did never pursued the position.
[00:02:32] Um, I didn’t really apply for it either. Um, it wasn’t on my radar for a long time. I, I think cuz I was assuming, you know, the office Canice management, you know, the, the folks in Albany, they would, you know, put someone in the position who had 30 years of experience running. So and so agency or, you know, had had, um, I basically, uh, you know, paid their dues, uh, back in Albany to, to, to, you know, be appointed to this position.
[00:02:58] I was [00:03:00] busy living my, my own life as a cannabis advocate and a nonprofit director in the south Bronx, uh, up until about March of this year, uh, got on a, a radio interview. Um, A couple guys who are, you know, good friends of mine mentors. Um, they, they have a radio show in Harlem, uh, Curtis Archer and Bob Ponte.
[00:03:22] And so they put me on their radio show to talk cannabis. And so we had an hour and a half conversation about where the state was in terms of, you know, rolling out his program and what that meant for, you know, black economic development, black, black opportu. Social equity, uh, rollout. And, you know, uh, that radio interview was heard by the majority leader, crystal people, Stokes, um, who has, you know, many of you guys know, um, is, you know, the, the soul and primary driver of the M RT a and I got a, an invite to come meet her in Albany.
[00:03:57] Uh, a week after that, uh, met with her [00:04:00] for, you know, about 90 minutes. I completely just thought it was an opportunity to kind of share. Ideas about what I thought the state could be doing before, returning back to my job, uh, in, in, in the south Bronx and in Brooklyn, uh, doing workforce development. But, uh, I guess, you know, after that conversation, she, um, was thinking differently about my future.
[00:04:19] And so that’s kind of how my name, you know, entered the conversation about the position. Uh, I had, you know, that was, it was only about three months after that, where I was finally offered the position. There was a lot of conversations with Chris and some other folks on the team just to figure out, you know, if it was a good fit, you know, ultimately like I just want the program to succeed.
[00:04:41] I, and I still feel that way obviously, but, um, uh, I, I needed to be certain that I was, you know, the right guy at the time for the role and, and that involved a lot of conversations with Chris and other members of the executive team to really figure out, um, what their priorities were, you know, where I was coming from.
[00:04:58] Uh, Chris obviously needed to get to know me a [00:05:00] little bit better. Uh, that that’s sort of how it happened. There was no, you know, like job application that was sent out. It was, it was, I was doing my thing, talking about, you know, cannabis in New York and what, what, what should happen and the right people heard it.
[00:05:16] We’d say
[00:05:17]Bryan Fields: that we’ve been for of your biggest. We’ve be fortunate to have some incredible guests on here. And I do think dam that you have the hardest roll out of all of them. So take us through what the, the first day on the job is like, right? Like, are you getting up to speed? Are you thinking about plants?
[00:05:32] Like take us through those first couple days as you try to, to get your feet wet in a role that is as challenging as all
[00:05:37]Damian Fagon: of them are. Yeah, I think, uh, you know, as I was saying, like, I, I, I I’ve worked in government before, right. I I’ve been in federal government in DC, which is very different than state government.
[00:05:49] So I, I walked into the role without a lot of experience, um, in Albany, you know, I’d only been to Albany a few times, uh, to advocate, um, around [00:06:00] cannabis. Uh, and so there was just, you know, as you can understand, imagine there’s a lot of acronyms. I need to learn a lot of different agencies and their roles I needed to figure.
[00:06:08] Uh, I think that the first month was mostly spent talking to, you know, directors, uh, from other agencies, you know, directors inside, uh, OCM, and really just getting a sense for how, uh, New York state government worked. Um, you know, I, I, my first question occur, he’s like, can you fire me? and he was like, I don’t know yet.
[00:06:31] um, and so, you know, there’s just, there was a lot of questions I had. I mean, I, I, I know what the role. Is is meant for, I know what the role is supposed to do. I know how important the task is, you know, uh, you know, in front of the chief equity officer, but what I didn’t understand is the tools that were available to me to implement them.
[00:06:47] And that’s something that I’m still figuring out to this day. And, um, and, and yeah, it’s a learning process, but, uh, I think I benefited, you know, you know, I, I bring a lot to the role because I’ve. [00:07:00] In the cannabis space, uh, for the last seven years, uh, as a small operator, as an advocate, as a nonprofit worker.
[00:07:08] And so, you know, I, I was already in the community, in the cannabis community, in New York, talking to, uh, entrepreneurs, um, activists, uh, and others, including elected elected officials. And so, uh, sliding into their role. You know, I had the community, uh, you know, insight. I kind of knew what I envisioned for the role and, and envisioned for the, for the state role out of the social equity program.
[00:07:30] And. Really, you know, it’s been about socializing, what I, what I wanted to see, you know, as an advocate, as an activist with what’s possible now that I’m in government. And I think that that is something that a lot of folks, you know, there’s a lot of tough lessons there. Like you, you know, you have all these ideas of how you, how you think the government should be implementing certain programs and, um, you know, creating space for the most harmed and.
[00:07:59] Being [00:08:00] inclusive and equitable. And then, you know, when you get into the spaces where now you are in charge of implementing those programs, you, you find that, you know, there’s a lot of obstacles. There’s a lot of, there’s a lot of, uh, realities of, you know, what the government can and can’t do, uh, that really limit the scope or expand the scope in some cases.
[00:08:19] But, uh, you don’t really know what what’s possible until you get into these positions and start talking to the lawyers.
[00:08:27]Bryan Fields: I think so.
[00:08:29]Kellan Finney: Go for mention ops. Yeah. Uh, thanks, Brian. So you mentioned obstacles, Damien, what, um, were some of the major obstacles that you first faced and were you able to kinda look at some of the other adult rack markets that have tried, uh, to implement social equity programs?
[00:08:45] Have you been able to kind of gather at least some solutions that they have tried to navigate those same obstacles?
[00:08:52]Damian Fagon: Oh, absolutely. I mean that. The number one thing I can say about me in this position is everything I’m coming up [00:09:00] with. Everything I’m proposing. Everything I’m pushing for internally is the result of years of talking to social equity operators and activists and more mature markets.
[00:09:10] Um, I got tapped in, you know, a few years, few years back with, uh, social equity advocates out in California, you know, Michigan, Colorado, and. Was on basically like weekly calls with a bunch of different groups, you know, learning about their roadblocks, their setbacks, what the state and city and municipalities were doing in their areas that, that, that was working and that, that wasn’t working.
[00:09:35] And, you know, like a lot of, a lot of the things that, um, a lot of the, the advantages that New York has in this position is that hindsight, that benefit of looking at what other states have tried to do and implement, uh, and learn from those mistakes. I mean, there, it, it, it, and it it’s really granular too.
[00:09:55] Like I spent, uh, a few weeks looking at the O Oakland’s loan [00:10:00] program and trying to understand what went wrong there. And, you know, when you dive into it and some of the reports that they release you, you, you realize they didn’t have enough staff to process all the applications for the loans or for the social equity, um, prioritization, you know, applications, whatever.
[00:10:16] And so there was just a backup in P. This might have actually been San Francisco, but, um, that was, that’s just like a human resource management thing that, you know, we can anticipate and solve for. Uh, and so I think, you know, to, to our benefit and to the, to the benefit of the social equity applicants in this state is we’re not gonna make, we’re not gonna make those same mistakes.
[00:10:36] Um, and we’re gonna, we’re going to use best practices. Uh, we’re not going to necessarily reinvent the wheel. We’re definitely gonna try some new things because we owe. that To the industry we owe that experimental experimentation with, with government policy and government intervention in this space to see if there aren’t better solutions to improving access, um, you know, making it more [00:11:00] inclusive and, and readily available to, to, um, Americans to, to get into the industry.
[00:11:05] And. We will be, you know, deploying a lot of things that have been done in other states, um, taking into account some of the, the, you know, the, the larger, smaller issues that, that held them back from succeeding and also trying new things. And so that’s, that’s ultimately, um, where, where I, I derive a lot of, you know, inspiration and, and insight into the process.
[00:11:28] Is, is those more experienced operators in other.
[00:11:30] state
[00:11:32]Bryan Fields: I think those are so important, but I, I kind of wanna stay in the beginning. So let’s talk about like your actual role from like a day to day standpoint in layman’s terms for those who are unfamiliar. Well, let’s say with cannabis, you know, can you explain what your role is and,
[00:11:45] and,
[00:11:45]Damian Fagon: and how
[00:11:47]Bryan Fields: your, your kids are handled, uh, moving forward and getting the
[00:11:50]Damian Fagon: market to open up.
[00:11:52] Yeah. So, you know, I work, you know, hand in glove with Chris Alexander, our executive director and the cannabis control board and the [00:12:00] advisory board to ensure that, you know, the policies that we’re implementing, the programs we’re launching, the regulations we’re writing are going to produce equitable outcomes.
[00:12:11] Um, you know, I. Have the tough job of, you know, ensuring that we live up to the high ideals of the MRT. A, I mean, you read that document and you’re inspi, you know, I, I read it, I was inspired. I was like, the state’s really gonna do this. And, uh, you know, then, uh, you, you, the position, the chief equity officer position is really to just, uh, as a, as a, as not necessarily just a watchdog, but also, uh, a manager of those programs and those initiatives and.
[00:12:40] Um, a, a, a big part of my role at the moment, um, is ensuring that the regulatory, uh, framework that we’re gonna deploy over the next, you know, year, uh, creates, uh, equitable licensing, uh, grants, uh, for social equity businesses, uh, low [00:13:00] interest loans, um, that were also creating, uh, incentives cuz you know, another element.
[00:13:07] The chief equity officer role is economic development. You know, this is something that is, uh, within my team’s, um, authority to, to, to work on and, and, and economic development includes things like, you know, do we, what can we do to incentivize our craft growers, um, to, you know, start producer cooperatives, to work together, to ensure that, you know, craft cultivation.
[00:13:32] Is successful in New York state. What are we doing to ensure, uh, distressed farmers? You know, multi-generational family farms, uh, have a chance to in, you know, incorporate cannabis into their, uh, crop rotation, uh, to, to, you know, in, uh, generate another revenue stream. That’ll save their farm. There are elements of what we’re doing that are, you know, focused on harm, uh, uh, um, Repairing the harm from the war on drugs, which [00:14:00] is, you know, central to the MRT.
[00:14:01] A and there are other elements that are about like, how do we make, you know, the 10 billion industry that we’re about to, you know, see develop here in New York state, as you know, uh, redistributive and, uh, um, widespread as it can be. You know, there’s a lot of parts of this date, um, here in here in the city and, uh, throughout central New York.
[00:14:25] And upstate New York that, you know, have really have really seen, uh, a lot of economic hardship over the last few decades. And so there’s, um, a lot of programs that we’re developing and, uh, regulations that we’re developing to ensure that, you know, the, the, the money that’s generated from this industry and the businesses that are started are located are geographically diverse and prioritize.
[00:14:52] You know, a lot of those groups that have been left behind. Uh, you know, the loss of big industry, the loss of manufacturing [00:15:00] and the, the struggles of some of the organic vegetable farms and the dairy industry. And so it’s a big mandate, but, um, we got a big team and so, and we’re growing every day. I think one thing that I, I don’t think a lot of people understand is that six months ago our agency probably.
[00:15:18] You know, 20 full time staff for, for stage 20 million people. We’re now at about 120 hundred 30 full time staff. And we’re scaling up to hopefully in the next six months, about 200. Uh, and so the work that we’re doing, I think people can see is, is, um, accelerating, uh, but it, and it’ll continue to accelerate as we bring on more staff.
[00:15:40] And, um, but yeah, that’s what my team is focused on is equity and economic develop. Across the state. It’s a
[00:15:47]Bryan Fields: massive challenge. And I think one of the areas that excites me most is that it’s not just words your team, isn’t just saying it, but they’re actually backing up with, with swift action, which I think is, is one of the big differences we’ve seen from other states who have, who have made [00:16:00] promises in order to, to try to take a different approach.
[00:16:02] So let’s, let’s start from the very beginning. Today is September 8th. What is the current status in New York and then who has a first opportunity to go
[00:16:10]Damian Fagon: first? Well, yeah, I mean, so. The, um, the industry, you know, the, the first conditional licenses that went out earlier this year were to the conditional, uh, hemp farmers, the adult use conditional cultivators.
[00:16:28] Uh, so right now we’re at about maybe two hundred and forty two hundred fifty, uh, conditional cultivators who are harvesting right now. You know, many of them are harvesting over the next month. Um, the, the first legal cannabis crops in the. Um, the next route of licensing, we authorized were conditional processors who also came outta the hemp program and had been in many cases, processing CBD, uh, and making, um, edibles tinctures, uh, in the CBD market over the last five years.
[00:16:56] So we have about 15 of those licensed now that are working [00:17:00] with our, a UCCS to, to convert that, that raw material, that biomass in most cases into, um, edibles and, and, um, beverages and everything else that are, and then those products, uh, will end up on the shelves of our next conditional, uh, license, which are the, is the card program.
[00:17:17] And that’s the traditional adult use retail, uh, dispensary program that we are launching. That is probably the most innovative approach to. Social equity licensing and, and, uh, um, prioritization of, of people with, you know, individuals with, um, marijuana related convictions, uh, that we’ve seen in the nation.
[00:17:38] And so. Uh, those are the first licenses. These are all conditional licenses, uh, that isn’t to say that they, they, they will forever be conditional licenses. These will, these will all be part of our legal, uh, adult use supply chain. Um, but, but, um, that, that’s how we decided to, to, to start the industry here in New York.
[00:17:57] And, uh, that is with small family [00:18:00] farms, many of them, uh, and I’ll say, and I’ll say this, cause I speak from experience cause I was a hemp farmer in the state of New York. Um, many of the conditional cultivators that we license. Uh, we’re, you know, facing some serious, you know, economic challenges and financial challenges, the hemp market, the CBD market on the east coast and probably on the west coast as well.
[00:18:20] Uh, did not turn out to be, you know, um, the panacea that I think a lot of people thought it would be. And unfortunately, a lot of our farmers got hurt by that and, and, and made big investments that, you know, the, the demand couldn’t back up. And so, uh, bringing them into the adult use market was a priority.
[00:18:39] uh, to, to, to, um, ensure that, you know, we didn’t, you know, the hemp, the hemp opportunity didn’t end up destroying, you know, multiple dozens of family farms, multi-generational family farms. I mean, some of these farms are over 200 years old. They’ve been in the same family. And so, uh, uh, a, a big, a big piece of, uh, of what, how we started this industry is, is with this, [00:19:00] um, conditional licensing period.
[00:19:02] And the regulations that, that are, that are imminently coming out in, uh, in the fall, um, this fall, uh, will inform the next licensing period, which we hope to make available to all other applicants, social equity and non-social equity, uh, by, uh, the middle of next year. Yeah, I’m
[00:19:23]Kellan Finney: glad you mentioned the, the hemp industry.
[00:19:25] It is, uh, it’s been a, a challenge for everyone in the whole country, I imagine. Um, and so what are some of the, the economic support that you guys are providing? Some of these farms that are transitioning over to adult use cannabis? Uh, could you kind of elaborate on that David for us?
[00:19:42]Damian Fagon: I mean, the economic support that they’re getting is they’re the first to grow adult use cannabis in, you know, one of the biggest markets on the east coast.
[00:19:50] Uh, and so, you know, a lot of these farmers are close friends of mine, um, colleagues, um, many of them helped me out when I was, you know, a small hemp farmer. [00:20:00] Uh, I, you know, previous to this, uh, job, I was on the board with the largest cannabis. Industry association in the state that primarily composed of initially was primarily composed of hemp farmers.
[00:20:11] And I think, I think that’s a lot, I think that a lot of, you know, maybe west coast from experienced operators to understand is that when, if you wanted to get into cannabis on the east coast in 20 16, 20 17, you had to go and you were, you wanted to stay legal. Uh, you had to go through him. Um, and so I, myself and a bunch of other farmers in New York went to hemp so we could learn how to grow cannabis.
[00:20:35] Um, and, and prepare for that opportunity as well. And so, um, yeah. Was, you know, the benefits that, that, that the hemp farmers are seeing is really. The first to, to find out what kind of genetics are, are gonna work, uh, with outdoor cultivation, New York state. Um, and the second is, you know, they’re gonna be first to market.
[00:20:55] Uh, when the, when our, our retail, when our conditional retail stores open up, um, and they [00:21:00] also, you know, the conditional license, um, is a two year license. So they will also be doing the same thing, um, outdoor in greenhouses next year, as. When you’re rolling
[00:21:09]Bryan Fields: out the licenses and you’re doing it the way you said where you’re, you’re kind of changing the game and making it go different
[00:21:15]Damian Fagon: because it’s, it’s newer.
[00:21:17]Bryan Fields: Right? A lot of people have said that they’re going to put others
[00:21:20]Damian Fagon: first,
[00:21:20]Bryan Fields: but you’re actually backing that up. Was there pushback from other people in the room who were saying other people’s opinions, maybe some of the bigger companies who wanted to have opportunities to, to be one of the first to enter the market?
[00:21:31]Damian Fagon: Yeah, no. Absolutely. And, uh, it’s been, um, challenging to say the least, you know, talk because, cause we’re not trying to shut anyone. New York state, like that’s that has never been the intention of the conditional program. Um, I think it’s important to understand, like I was saying six months ago, the, the agency had 20, probably 20 full-time staff.
[00:21:53] We were in no position to roll out thousands of licenses and open up applications to companies from all over the country. [00:22:00] It wouldn’t, it would’ve been a disaster, but we still recognized. You know, an opportunity to get something going. Um, and you know, at that state, you know, I, I wasn’t on, on the team at that point.
[00:22:12] I was, uh, merely an advocate outside of it, you know, pushing them one way or the other, or trying to, um, and, and not succeeding, but, uh, You know, at that point, you know, six months ago, the outdoor cultivation season, we have one season in New York, um, and, and it was coming up and we knew, and I think that there were people at OCM who knew they wanted to do this conditional retail.
[00:22:35] Um, program. And so the, there was a need to generate some product, some legal product that could stock the shelves by winter. And, uh, that’s where the hemp program came in. They were, they had the infrastructure, they had the facilities, the processors had the equipment. Um, it just made sense and it started the industry off, um, in a way that we haven’t seen done in any other state with, you know, [00:23:00] small family farms and, uh, those most harmed by the war on drugs.
[00:23:04] And. Uh, It’s definitely not, uh, a perfect , um, start, but it is sending a message and it is, uh, in, in incorporating a lot of folks right off the bat at the beginning of the industry that are in, in, in every other state have been left behind or have been kept out. And so. This is going to be, uh, no cap market.
[00:23:28] This is, this is not a limiting, limiting, uh, limited licensing market. Um, we’re not, we’re not putting caps on licenses and we’re, we’re definitely opening it up to big players, small players and large and medium size players. Um, but you know, there just, there wasn’t the capacity at the beginning of this year to, to even begin to think about, um, managing what that looks like, you know, as far as.
[00:23:49] You know, it just everything, just the, the, the, you saw how many applications New Jersey got in the first week of them opening up applications. Like, um, we’re [00:24:00] scaling up staff, uh, in anticipation of, uh, a similar, um, uh, situation here. And so, uh, we’re in a much better place now and over the next six months to begin, you know, uh, um, Preparing for, for the larger rollout, uh, of, of the industry.
[00:24:18] When we’re talking about thousands of licenses here, what,
[00:24:23]Kellan Finney: uh, dam, what do you think the timeline.
[00:24:26]Damian Fagon: Timeline. Yeah.
[00:24:27]Kellan Finney: Transitioning from what everyone is branding as a limited license state to, uh, to kind of this open season, if you will, where anyone can kind of go apply.
[00:24:37]Damian Fagon: Yeah. Um, and so I, I, I, I do wanna talk about the timeline a little bit because, you know, I’ve noticed a lot of people in New York, um, even, you know, friends of mine, people who’ve been in the industry for a while and are patiently waiting.
[00:24:50] They’ve got their properties in mind. They’ve got their business plan ready. Um, and they’ve been ready for the last six months. And I, I know a ton of incredible legacy [00:25:00] operators, farmers, um, store owners who are, um, anxious to, to get into this space. Uh, and so, you know, when I, when I hear people talking about what’s taking so long, it’s like you could have every, you know, every, um, desire for us to take our time with this.
[00:25:18] Um, I think. In state after state, you know, you’ve seen states, uh, state officials kind of rush through this process and, you know, deputize the medical operators to go first and then open it up to just pro uh, applicants who are ready to start building out facilities immediately. There’s no turning the dial back on that later.
[00:25:38] You know what I mean? Uh, and so the way you start an industry, the way you launch the foundation of a legal industry that is going to be here for a hundred years is you, is you should take your time with it. Um, you, you want to be intentional and deliberate with every single regulation that you put in place.
[00:25:56] Like, is this necessary? Is this not necessary? What kind of outcomes will happen if we [00:26:00] make this a requirement? And not that a requirement These should, these should take time. Um, you know, I, I liken it to, you know, uh, building a bridge, an infrastructure project like that bridge you want, you want that bridge to, to, to be there for a hundred years, you have to do a lot of engineering and planning before you start, um, laying the foundation of it.
[00:26:18] And, uh, you know, I’m thinking about those operators that are ready to go. Uh, right now I, I, I, I, I think about them a lot, but I’m also thinking about the. Who’s in the south Bronx who will, may want to enter the industry five years, 10 years from now. Um, we also want an industry to exist, uh, five, 10 years from now that, that, that, that, um, young entrepreneur can also access.
[00:26:42] And so, you know, we’re not looking at. You know, creating a couple hundred millionaires in the next two years, we’re looking at building a sustainable thriving, dynamic, innovative, inclusive, and you know, representative industry. That’s gonna be here for decades. [00:27:00] And, um, I just think it’s so shortsighted to rush that process.
[00:27:03] Like, you know, legal cannabis is here to stay. It’ll be nationwide eventually, uh, take your time. You know, this is an important plant. Like if you really care about cannabis, You really love this plant. Like a lot of people in this industry do, uh, you know, you, you should, you should really be pushing your legislators and your, um, your regulators to, to be intentional with this process.
[00:27:25] Uh, don’t rush it. Don’t take qu like, um, uh, what is it, uh, side streets or whatever, uh, uh, or cut corners or anything like that, like really work on it, really think about. Um, incorporate feedback from stakeholders, the community activists, the people who have, who fought for legalization for decades to get us to this point, incorporate what, what they have to say, incorporate legacy, talk to talk to the legacy operators and, and, you know, build something that’s here to last, not something that is temporary.
[00:27:59] I mean, David was [00:28:00] one of
[00:28:00]Bryan Fields: those people. So I definitely hear you, but I was also under the impression that speed was critical, given all of the other efforts. And I I’ve taken a different approach maybe over the last month where I think recognizing exactly like you said, like doing it right, is way more critical than doing it super fast.
[00:28:17] And then having all these issues where the industry doesn’t have. The ability to grow the right way over a long time, because cannabis is fighting not only stigmas, but various other issues that have, have given it challenges for quite some time. So making sure that the largest market in the entire world is built the correct way.
[00:28:35] Is is incredibly critical. And these steps now your team is taking are, are necessary in doing that. But one of the challenges though, with taking your time
[00:28:42]Damian Fagon: and doing it the right way
[00:28:43]Bryan Fields: are the, the pumping up of the grain market. So how, how does your team balance knowing that there’s illegal storefronts that are operating currently and that there’s trucks that are all around New York city.
[00:28:54] So how does your team handle those situations?
[00:28:57]Damian Fagon: Yeah. Uh, you know, it’s, it’s definitely, [00:29:00] uh, I think a shock to some, not a shock to others. And you know, the one thing I’ll say about the gray market that’s popping up and, uh, this is, this is an important, uh, element that, that differentiates New York city from a lot of other, uh, municipalities and states, uh, cause we’re the size of states, honestly.
[00:29:19] New York city is a very expensive city to live in. Right. Um, there have, it’s always been, you know, for the last 20 years, it’s been incredibly difficult, uh, for, for working class new Yorkers, um, middle income, middle class, new Yorkers to, to live here and to, you know, 75% of our city rent. And so cannabis, illicit cannabis has always been there.
[00:29:41] As kind of, um, uh, sort of, you know, some, something that, uh, folks can fall back on when they’ve lost a job or when they’ve missed a, you know, rent check, they can, they can bring a pack out from CA California. And, um, uh, supplement their income. And so, you know, when you [00:30:00] see the kind of free for all cannabis, gray market, that’s kind of popping up right now.
[00:30:05] There are a lot of PE you know, you know what rent, right? Right now it’s for a one bedroom in Manhattan. It’s like 4,000, $4,000. And so it, it, it’s, it’s very unique to the city, too. What, what what’s happening because it’s in, in most cases, these storefronts are being operated by outof. Uh, folks who, who are, you know, really just opportunistic cash grab.
[00:30:26] They, they recognize this gray area to make a little bit of money and they are making a lot of money. Uh, they’re also eating into, um, the, the, the revenue of traditional legacy operators. Who’ve been here selling cannabis for decades. Um, and so, yeah, we recognize that, you know, this is the result of the delayed rollout of the industry economic conditions that are unique to living in the most expensive city in the country.
[00:30:52] Um, and, and also just a, an incredible demand for weed, new Yorkers love weed, and, uh, they also need money. And so they’re gonna, they’re [00:31:00] gonna, they’re gonna combine those two. It’s a very entrepreneurial city. Um, now I think, you know, we’ve done a couple actions, uh, here in the city and, and across the state with local and, uh, state partners just yesterday.
[00:31:14] We, um, with our partners in, uh, New York city law enforcement, uh, I think impounded about 19 of those trucks. Um, so, you know, I think we’ve done that twice now where we’ve taken about 20 off the streets. Um, so 40 total, uh, and, you know, uh, we’re, we’re gonna continue working with our local partners to ensure that, you know, these storefronts, um, are shut down, cuz they are in violation of, of, of several, you know, tax violations, health code violations.
[00:31:42] Um, and the, the thing is, is that, you know, and, and I, and I want to, you. Really, uh, stressed. This is that there’s no return to what happened in New York before. And I don’t think a lot of people outside of New York and maybe people who aren’t familiar with the east coast and how law enforcement treated [00:32:00] weed for decades, but there’s absolutely no returning to the way we handled enforcement of a legal cannabis sales, uh, in this city and, and on, on the east coast, it, it can’t ever happen again.
[00:32:12] And so it’s not necessarily about. Shutting down this gray market and, and, uh, you know, punishing people for, for these violations. It’s about creating a legal industry that is accessible and, um, you know, potentially more lucrative for them to enter. And I, I think what we’ve seen in, in other states that had pretty, you know, significant illicit markets, I think Washington states a perfect example.
[00:32:40] Their illicit market sort of fades out into the background as they increase the footprint of the legal market. And I, I expect the same thing to happen in New York, you know, new Yorkers and the tourists who, you know, 60 million tourists that come here every year. Uh, you know, once we start, you know, opening up, uh, the amount of shops that we need to, to really meet demand and those, uh, shops are [00:33:00] selling top quality, tested, safe product.
[00:33:03] You’re gonna see it a shift away from the illit market into the legal market. And so that’s how we look at it. We don’t see it as necessarily enforcement issue, uh, where we need to start punishing people. We see it as we, we need to do better at, at lowering the barriers to entry and, and creating that OnRamp for these folks to join the legal industry.
[00:33:20]Kellan Finney: I think that was so well said, Damien and, um, excluding California, I would say every state that has launched an adult rec market has seen the gray market. Just fade into the background for all the points that you just touched on. Um, I do wanna kind of change the, the topic here and kind of bring up the, the, the fund.
[00:33:41] Um, what was the idea behind it? Could you kind of walk us through what that fund is? Its purpose is. Yeah.
[00:33:47]Damian Fagon: So, uh, the social equity fund. So this is also predates, uh, my by like six months, but, uh, this is the fund. Uh, you know, it, it, it’s got some state money in there, I think 50 million, uh, but it’s mostly private [00:34:00] privately raised, uh, fund that is going to support.
[00:34:03] The conditional adult use retail dispensaries, uh, you know, the fund is supposed to, to, you know, grow to be 200 million so we can support the creation and establishment of 150 dispensaries across the state. Um, and, and that money really, you know, is intended to create these turnkey retail operations, uh, that, uh, are.
[00:34:28] Uh, you know, justice impacted, um, card eligible applicants can kind of just plug in their operations, their brands, their business strategy. What have you into, you know, uh, state of the art turnkey facilities that are located in prime prime, uh, prime, uh, areas of the, of the city of, of upstate of central New York, long island.
[00:34:49] And so that the, the fund is intended to, to, to support that. And, um, uh, I know da. Has recently, uh, voted to finally, you know, [00:35:00] approve the fund and, uh, they’re gonna be, you know, uh, going out on the road, uh, raising money over the next six months, uh, to support that effort pretty
[00:35:09]Bryan Fields: unprecedented, right. To have a fund like that, and then to, to work, to help set up these businesses to get them to push
[00:35:14]Damian Fagon: off the ground.
[00:35:15] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it, it, it, it’s, it’s a lot of money, uh, and I think. It represents something, you know, unprecedented in the history of, you know, drugs and criminal justice in this country. Um, this is, you know, the state of the, a state of New York, you know, that only four years ago, four years ago, was throwing kids up against the wall all over the state, uh, patting them down and putting them, uh, in the back of a cop car for, you know, carrying a mildly psychoactive.
[00:35:50] That’s that’s how far we’ve come in four years as a state, as a city. And, um, to, to, to see the kind of backing that the fund is [00:36:00] getting to from, um, our, our representatives in Albany is just so huge. And, um, I, I, I love it. I, you know, one part of the reasons I took this job straight up, part of the reason I took this job is cause I heard that announcement.
[00:36:13] I heard what they were doing with the conditional adult use retail dispensaries. And I was like, oh, okay. These. Aren’t just talking a big game. They’re they’re going for it. And so. Decision to join, uh, join the team was entirely, you know, built up around the work that they had already committed to. Um, I saw the vision and I was like, man, these guys are serious.
[00:36:36] They’re putting money up, they’re putting they’re and you know what? It is really, really what it is. They’re doing the hard thing. Like, because you know, the easy thing is to just transition all the medical operators to adult. Let a few other guys in let, ’em do this vertical integration thing. It’s, it’s very easy to, to, to be compliant and to, to enforce all that.
[00:36:55] And, um, you know, there’s gonna be no issues. There’s gonna be no great market. There’s gonna be no, but they [00:37:00] chose the other way. They chose the hard way because it’s the right way. Um, and, and I, and I really respect that, cuz it’s risky. Um, politically risky, you know, uh, it’s also risky to some of these operators, you know, we can’t expect all of them to, to succeed year one.
[00:37:13] Uh, and. Uh, it, it, it it’s, it was a brave, it was a brave policy decision, uh, to pursue it. And, um, it really inspired me to join the team. But unfortunately though,
[00:37:24]Bryan Fields: with those policies, you anger some of the bigger players. So from ANSO perspective, I’m just gonna quote an article from camper. Fitzgerald said that multistate cannabis operator.
[00:37:34] We’ll be required to pay 20 million to help fund a 200 million state fund to help finance the first licenses. Is this, the approach that, that New York thought was better. And is there, is there plans in the future to try to adjust it in order to allow some of the bigger operators to come in and help support?
[00:37:49] Let’s say an exploding
[00:37:51]Damian Fagon: industry in New York. Yeah. I mean, let me just separate two funds really quick because so the social equity fund for the card recipients is $200 million. [00:38:00] Unrelated to the, the, this $20 million fee or whatever that is, uh, that’s referring to. Um, that is, that is a separate fund from the other.
[00:38:12] Pot of money that we are, um, focused on, which is for social equity programming that we, we intend to launch next year. Um, so the $200 million that was announced by the governor at the beginning of this year, you know, that is, that is, uh, being privately raised outside of, you know, um, anything to do with MSOs or ROS.
[00:38:30] Um, so, you know, onto this 20 million number, you know, first and foremost, um, I don’t know anything about 20 million. This is a decision that the cannabis control board, uh, will make. They, they ultimately decide when our 10. Uh, um, ROS our medical cannabis providers who, you know, many of them are the biggest cannabis companies in the country when they, the, the, the, the board will decide when they transition into the adult use market and how they, that transition will look, um, and, you know, the, the fee will be [00:39:00] negotiated at that level.
[00:39:01] Obviously we’ll have input on it, but you know, this is a decision that has not been made yet. Um, so there, there is no $20 million at any large MSO outside of New York, uh, will have to pay to access our market. The ROS who are, you know, Going to be entering the adult use market, um, with advantages like vertical integration, uh, will be paying a, a, a, a transition fee.
[00:39:27] Um, I don’t know what that number is yet, but, uh, I also wanna be clear on, on, on one thing. The social equity program that new York’s gonna be building out is not contingent upon these fees. Um, we will have a social equity program, a well funded social equity program with, with, or without those fees. Uh, I think there’s no world in which we, we, uh, launch our legal industry, um, based around, uh, whether or not these larger cannabis companies are.
[00:39:56] Pay a certain amount of money to, to transition over from, from medical. [00:40:00] And it, it, it it’s untenable. I wouldn’t be able to, to build out and plan a program. Now, if that was the case. And so, um, especially, you know, talking about just the size of the, the amount of money that we need for our social equity program, you know, this is a state that just passed a 220 billion annual budget, um, 20 million.
[00:40:19] Like I, if, if, um, no, I, I, I, I I’ll stop there, but I I’m gonna say. We will proceed with the social equity plan and a program with, or without that fee. Any
[00:40:31]Bryan Fields: concerns that you need, the scale that the MSOs can bring to the table in, in order to help drive down the prices of the, the product so that
[00:40:40]Damian Fagon: when an
[00:40:40]Bryan Fields: everyday consumer is making their decision, that the price is somewhat comparable between the, the traditional market and then the legal market.
[00:40:47] No.
[00:40:49]Kellan Finney: What about the experience that they bring in terms of managing the, the metric software? And, um, like there is a definite skill set associated with cultivating high quality cannabis, [00:41:00] but there’s a whole nother skill associated with putting in place systems that provide. Optimal functionality for these organizations.
[00:41:09] So that experience that they’ve had managing metric and all those kind of nuances associated with the business, is there an advantage that that could potentially bring?
[00:41:18]Damian Fagon: Uh, no, I don’t. I don’t think so. I, so just to be clear, the MSOs will absolutely be allowed like. Welcome to apply for licensing. Yeah.
[00:41:25] When it opens up next year where there’s, there’s absolutely no universe in which New York is gonna be blocking this opportunity from large scale operators, they will have to, you know, adapt their, their business models to whatever the regulatory environment that we end up creating here in New York. Uh, but we welcome that expertise.
[00:41:40] We welcome, um, experienced operators to come here and, and, and provide great product to new Yorkers. That, that absolutely, um, is a priority for us. Um, I will say that I think that, um, The cannabis industry’s hard. Uh, I, I, I know a lot of operators in, you know, I, I, I’ve mostly just been [00:42:00] a CBD farmer, you know, managing greenhouses and, you know, 10, 20 acre farms.
[00:42:04] Uh, but I’ve spent time out in Colorado, in California, visiting these facilities and, and seeing how these operations are run. And I’ve seen. $10 million grows in, in Colorado being managed by 1 21 year old kid. , you know, high school degree. , I’ve seen process, I’ve seen processing facilities also, you know, with millions of dollars of equipment with someone with, with basically a chemistry high, a high school understanding of chemistry.
[00:42:27] Um, and so I’m not gonna, you know, sit here and pretend that this is rocket science. I think that there are people in the cannabis industry across this country. That would like the rest of us to believe that this is an impossible thing to do without them, but it’s not it isn’t. Um, but again, like we’re not blocking opportunity for many of those, for any of those MSOs to, to come to New York and build, uh, uh, their, their businesses out here.
[00:42:48] You know, our, um, we, we love great weed in New York and if you can grow it, um, you’re gonna succeed here. So, I guess now the most important question
[00:42:57]Bryan Fields: is, is there a date in mind or most more [00:43:00] importantly, will I may be able to buy product here in New York before the end
[00:43:04]Damian Fagon: of the year. Man. I, I, I go to sleep at night and I dream about that.
[00:43:10] I really hope, I, I, I’m hopeful that we will have at least, uh, a couple stores with products on the shelves by the end of this year. Um, if not, you know, we’ll have a lot, you know, a do a dozen, a couple dozen, you know, up to 50, hopefully the first half, um, the first quarter of next year. Um, but yeah, the, the, the goal, the, the north star.
[00:43:33] The first legal sale of adult use cannabis happening by the end of this year, what percentage chance would you say that happens? It’s coin to coin to LL
[00:43:47]Bryan Fields: background’s really impressive. The third generation farmer background, international development. When you took the job, what did you get it? Right. And most importantly, what did you
[00:43:56]Damian Fagon: get wrong?
[00:43:57] Oh, man. I haven’t [00:44:00] had a chance to make the mistakes yet, but they’re coming um, I think, I think one thing that I’m, I’m gonna be really proud of and we’re gonna be announcing this this soon is, uh, we, we do plan on prioritizing those new Yorkers or, or, or working with those new Yorkers, um, who have illicit illicit cannabis experience, um, to help them, um, Learn compliance issues, help them, um, transition into the legal market.
[00:44:29] Um, that that is something that is, uh, near and dear to me. Uh, and it’s something that, um, you know, we have, uh, a lot of people working on right now to, to, to roll out in the next month or so. Um, you know, we have such, uh, talented and experienced, um, legacy market here in the state of new. People that have much like California, honestly, like, you know, upstate, we’ve got families that have been growing weed in, you know, the finger lakes, Rochester out, outside Buffalo for, for [00:45:00] generations.
[00:45:00] Uh, we’ve got, I, I personally know, uh, a guy in the south Bronx who grows, uh, the best cannabis I’ve ever smoked. Um, and he was, he’s doing it in, you know, 5,000 square foot basement in the Bronx. Uh, we have such talented logistics managers to that are, that are essentially running. What is already a billion multi-billion dollar industry, um, in the state and, uh, you know, of, of the huge priority of mine and is figuring out how to bring those guys, um, and women over to the legal Le this legal opportunity.
[00:45:37] And so, um, I Haven. Made any huge mistakes yet, but I will. Um, but that is something that, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m proud that, you know, we’ve got buy-in um, within the agency to, to, to, to, to start rolling out
[00:45:52]Bryan Fields: 20 years from now, we will look back and say that was bar Barrack. I can’t believe we did that in the cannabis industry.
[00:45:58] What is that? [00:46:00]
[00:46:01]Damian Fagon: Uh, limited Licens. I, I
[00:46:04]Bryan Fields: think,
[00:46:05]Damian Fagon: I think, um, limited licensing models markets are, are, are really, um, uh, I don’t know, kind of deeply UN un-American to me. Uh, I think that home grow should be a right for, for all Americans. Once we’ve got federal legalization. And, uh, I think everyone, um, who wants to start a cannabis business, um, 20 years from now, 10 years from now, five years from now, and it’s legal, they should be allowed to, um, there shouldn’t be these, you know, fees that keep people out there shouldn’t be these, um, you know, lobbyists, they need to hire just to access.
[00:46:42] A legal industry. It’s, it’s a mildly psychoactive plant that a lot of people love. And in a lot of these limited licensing states, you know, states where I have a lot of friends that are very frustrated. Um, they are very passionate about the plant and they just have nowhere to go with that enthusiasm.
[00:46:58] and it, it, it [00:47:00] upsets me a lot. And I think 20 years from now, we’re gonna look back and, and like, think that was insane. Like, I can’t believe we told people they couldn’t do something that we legalized, especially people that, you know, had all this passion and insight and enthusiasm and love for that. We kept them from that opportunity.
[00:47:16] And so, um, I. I hope to not see, uh, many more limited licensing markets, legal markets launched, but I assume there will be a, a few, I just, um, hope that it isn’t the reality a generation from now, since you
[00:47:32]Bryan Fields: been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been the biggest misconception?
[00:47:36]Damian Fagon: Say again, sorry. Since you’ve been
[00:47:37]Bryan Fields: in the cannabinoid industry, what has been the biggest misconception?
[00:47:42]Damian Fagon: Uh, So make money uh, honestly I think, I think that is, that is something that, uh, is, is, is just like it’s. I don’t know why we don’t talk about that more pub. I mean, we do. I mean, increasingly people are talking about that pretty [00:48:00] publicly about how much money they’re losing, but there’s this, uh, you know, kind of speculative lottery driven.
[00:48:07] You know, I just gotta win a license. And then a Chiang, my performer tells me I’m a millionaire next year. It is so damaging to entrepreneurs, to the sector, to consumers, to, to, you know, uh, everyone to, to, to, um, you know, build up that myth that this is, uh, some sort of ticket to financial freedom. It. One of the toughest businesses you can get into.
[00:48:30] I mean, I know I’m preaching the choir on this, but, uh, I, I spent the last few years talking to, would be, can like people who want to be cannabis entrepreneurs in Brooklyn, in the south Bronx, upper Manhattan. And, you know, they were all, you know, talking to me about the opportunity in terms of like, if I can only get this license, I can only get this license.
[00:48:48] And I, it, it, it, it pains me to be the person to kill their dreams right before the legal industry is launch. But there is definitely a, a reality setting narrative we need to, [00:49:00] to, to, to push out there that, you know, if you open up the books for some of these super popular brands and operators out in California, Colorado, you’re not, you’re gonna see a lot of red.
[00:49:11] Um, and it, it it’s, it’s obviously not the fault of the operators. There’s so many other issues that the industry has in, in terms of two 80 E and just compliance requirements. But, um, yeah, I, I, I, I, I, it’s such a brutal industry and I, and I hope we’re more honest. Um, you know, in our conversations with, um, aspiring entrepreneurs about, uh, the nature of the opportunity, because, and, and, and I’ll add to that and say that like, as, as someone who, you know, cultivated cannabis, I don’t wanna do that again.
[00:49:41] It wasn’t for me. I, I love. I loved growing weed, uh, growing CBD. Um, but you know, it didn’t, it was a very difficult life. Like I was taking a train upstate to my farm and then, you know, I was out in my farm eight o’clock and then trying to get home. It, it, it’s an isolating life, you know, managing a grow in the middle of nowhere.
[00:49:59] It’s [00:50:00] it’s lonely life. It’s, it’s difficult. It’s it? And so being more honest about the opportunity, uh, I think is going to. Ultimately be a net positive for the industry going forward. Um, and that, you know, people who are truly passionate, truly committed to staying in this for the long haul, not just to flip a license or sell it or, or, um, you know, one up some, some other business to, to actually build a brand, build a business and commit to it over the long term.
[00:50:27] I think that will encourage those folks to, to join the industry for just more honest about the, the nature of the opportunity. That’s really well said. One of
[00:50:36]Bryan Fields: my favorite quotes that I’ve heard around the podcast is that an executive said that winning the license is the easiest thing about, about operating in cannabis.
[00:50:44]Damian Fagon: Yeah, that’s true. And then once you win, the nightmare begins, right? Yeah. Now the real struggle happens. All right. Dame,
[00:50:50]Bryan Fields: before we get predictions, we ask all of our guests, you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to bounce onto the next generation. What would it [00:51:00] be?
[00:51:02]Damian Fagon: Um, Oh, it’s a really profound question.
[00:51:08] Uh, man. Um, do it cuz you love it. Not cuz it’s profit. Not, not, cuz you’re gonna make money off of it. I mean that’s ultimately, uh, what I’d say is, you know, I went into the cannabis space to learn primarily because I wanted to, to eventually, you know, work with the plant in terms of economic development and policy and social.
[00:51:30] Um, and, uh, I, I, I went into it with that intention because I love that that intersection of economic development and, and cannabis and criminal justice reform. Um, but I, I, I, wasn’t in love with building a business and building a brand and, and, uh, you know, generating, uh, consistent sales and stuff like that.
[00:51:50] And so it wasn’t for me. And so, um, I, I, I really feel like, you know, the folks who are, are looking at this space, like if you love cannabis and, and, and, um, [00:52:00] Uh, you really love it. I mean, there’s gonna be a way for you to participate in it just don’t jump into it because it’s, you know, um, for lack of a better word, like the sexy new industry
[00:52:13]Bryan Fields: or prediction time, Damien years from new’s market, what does success look like for
[00:52:21]Damian Fagon: you?
[00:52:23] Um, a hundred years. Is that, is that the timeline five years? Five years. Five years. Sorry
[00:52:36] you wanna say that again? I, I couldn’t sure. Five
[00:52:38]Bryan Fields: years from now. What does success look like for you with, in
[00:52:42]Damian Fagon: regards to the New York market? Five years? You’re saying five years. Just, yeah. Okay. Uh, five years from now. Man, uh, uh, first it looks like, uh, you know, an industry that is, uh, without compare in any other legal state.
[00:52:58] I think that, [00:53:00] um, what we want to build here ultimately, um, is something that you can’t find elsewhere. And so, uh, you know, an example of that is. Um, Chinatown, right? Um, Chinatown is, you know, hundreds of years old. It’s a, it’s a staple of Manhattan. It’s a, it’s a incredibly vibrant community. That’s been there for many generations.
[00:53:20] Uh, and so often I think about what a dispensary looks like in Chinatown, uh, that is owned by, you know, a Chinese American family. That’s been there for generations. And so. Ultimately, you know, we’re looking at a dispensary that reflects those east Asian cultural traditions that, that also have, um, you know, some, uh, elements of cannabis, you know, intertwined with that history and that they, you know, are able to tell that cultural story that, that of their family and of their, of their traditions and of their people through that dispensary through cannabis.
[00:53:52] Now all of a sudden we’ve got people from all over the country, east Asian, you know, everyone coming to Chinatown to see what [00:54:00] cannabis looks like, uh, in, in, in that community. And even, you know, potentially people from east Asia coming out here and learning about cannabis, uh, and, and, and what it means to, to, to that community in Chinatown.
[00:54:10] And I really feel like that’s how we build. Um, you know, that’s, that’s the industry that New York kind of deserves, you know, this is one of the most culturally diverse, uh, cities in the world. And we in, in, in a legal industry that, you know, incorporates our family farms, upstate growing fireweed, selling it in, you know, retail stores that are owned and operated by, you know, people from that community, from that neighborhood who are telling their story through their.
[00:54:39] That’s, you know, ultimately how we build the most inclusive, uh, and you know, diverse and, and successful cannabis industry in the country.
[00:54:52]Kellan Finney: Uh, I mean, I agree with everything Damien said, I’m gonna take a little different, I think success for New York is going [00:55:00] to, uh, look like any other industry. That’s been, um, a staple, uh, in New York or globally, if you will. I think at the end of the day, New York has always been like the capital of the world.
[00:55:11] If you will. And cannabis, I don’t think will be any different. And so success will be globalized cannabis brands that were kind of founded and developed in that melting pot that is Manhattan and is New York. And I think that’s what success will be like. Is that a free market that provides the opportunity for people from any walk of life, to be able to start either a brand or a grow or any.
[00:55:38] Portion of the, the cannabis supply chain and be able to take
[00:55:41]Damian Fagon: it globally. What do you think? Absolutely. I, I fully agree with that and you know, I’ll just add to that and say that, like, what we’re creating here in New York is not some sort of exclusive. We’re creating a competitive landscape where people can compete fairly and on a level playing [00:56:00] field so that the best brands, the best cannabis wins.
[00:56:04] And I don’t think that, you know, with the exception of maybe, you know, the illicit, the legacy market in California, that that’s really happened nationwide. Uh, we haven’t seen that, you know, granular level of competition in the legal. That, that really forces companies to innovate, uh, to build new ways of consuming cannabis, to build new, um, products and, and grow new strains.
[00:56:25] And so I fully agree. I think that, you know, what the, the market that’s gonna, you know, mature here is gonna, it’s gonna influence what London looks like. It’s gonna influence what Berlin looks like. Yep. And, uh, exactly. We just gotta make sure that the brands that do win the, the companies that do win here, they, they earned that.
[00:56:41] You know what I mean? They fought for that. They. They innovated, they pivoted, they, they, they did everything they could. And, and that’s why they succeeded. Not because they had the biggest checkbook, but because they had the best ideas and that’s, that’s all we’re trying to do in New York. I love that. And that’s
[00:56:56]Bryan Fields: so exciting to hear that and to watch it unfold.
[00:56:58] Cause I, I think that’s the most [00:57:00] interesting part is that we’re going to get a live look at one of the best case studies of all time and, and watch how your team unrolls it out. And, and, and hopefully goes away with a lot of these Lacey stigma aspects that continue to play the industry. And one of the, the things that concerns me most though, would be, uh, the pricing standpoint, I think, as the market comes online, My biggest fear is that some of the older generation continues to hesitate with, uh, buying the products.
[00:57:26] And maybe they’re not the, the, the more pricing issues, but that’s my biggest internal worry is that from a pricing standpoint that the, it might push other people to outside market. But I guess we’ll see why is it unfold? But David, I gotta tip my health. I think what your team is doing. Um, we’ve had people come on and talk about New York, specifically as the market, to who aspire to, to become and ones that they look to as doing it the right way and backing it up with action.
[00:57:52] So I gotta tip my hat to you there. So for listeners, if they wanna get in touch, they wanna learn more about New York cannabis and they likely [00:58:00] wanna apply for
[00:58:00]Damian Fagon: jobs. Where can they find you, uh, cannabis dot N y.gov? All of our information is up there. Subscribe to our, you know, email updates, uh, tap in, follow us on Instagram and Twitter.
[00:58:12] Um, there, we’re gonna be announcing a lot, a lot of stuff, including the regulations over the next few months. And you really want to see on top of that, we’re gonna have a very intense and collaborative public comment period where, you know, You know, the world can see the regulations for what the industry that we want to build.
[00:58:29] They can actually, you know, write to us and suggest, uh, changes that they, that they recommend. We’re we’re gonna, we’re gonna listen to stakeholder input, including MSOs, including businesses outside of New York. Um, and so, you know, tap in on our website, uh, to stay, to stay, uh, on top of that. And, um, yeah.
[00:58:45] Thank you guys for having me. Yeah. Appreciate this was
[00:58:47]Bryan Fields: fun. Looking forward to doing this again and seeing, uh,
[00:58:50]Damian Fagon: how the market’s kind of unfolded. Yeah. Check in again in a year. It could be, uh, either the greatest thing ever or just a complete nightmare. No, probably the greatest.
[00:58:59]Bryan Fields: So [00:59:00] for
[00:59:00]Damian Fagon: the time, yep.
