Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
Metrc is contracted by state regulators and committed to a secure and credible regulatory environment. At the center of the regulatory apex, Metrc’s role is critical for cannabis operators from seed to sale.
This week on The Dime, we host Michael Johnson, CEO of Metrc, to discuss:
- Uptime vs. functional time
- API Changes, Metrc Connect
- Implementing regulatory changes across 23 states
About Metrc:
Metrc is the most trusted and experienced provider of cannabis regulatory systems in the United States. Our solution combines advanced software, radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology, a dedicated customer- support team, and a secure database to track and trace cannabis from growth, harvest, and processing to testing, transport, and sale.
Governments contracting with Metrc receive an off-the-shelf software-as-a-service (SaaS) system configured specifically to their needs. Our cloud-based tracking software and securely encoded RFID-enabled tags give regulators full supply-chain visibility. Metrc also provides data management, reporting services, third-party integrator support, cloud hosting, technical updates, along with training and support for users in government and industry.
About Michael Johnson:
Focused operational finance leader with expertise in harvesting growth potential and facilitating process efficiencies at Vista Equity Partners, Insight Venture Partners, TT Capital Partners, NovaQuest and FristCressey portfolio companies. Proven performance in building highly effective teams, integrating acquisitions and rebuilding enterprise-wide processes to harmonize customer experience and profitability.
#cannabisindustry #cannabisinider #metrc
Guest Links
https://www.metrc.com/
https://twitter.com/official_metrc?lang=en
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-johnson-41458115/
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[00:00:00] What’s
[00:00:03]Bryan Fields: up guys? Welcome back to an episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields and with me as always, as Kell Finny. And this week we got a very special guest, Michael Johnson, c e o of metrics. Michael, thanks for taking time.
[00:00:12]Michael Johnson: How you doing today? Appreciate the time. Doing well. Thank you guys for, uh, for having me on.
[00:00:17]Bryan Fields: Excited to talk to you today, Kellen. How are you
[00:00:19]Kellan Finney: doing? I’m doing really well. Really excited to talk to Michael. Really excited to talk about metric and uh, really excited to try to hold the West
[00:00:26]Michael Johnson: Coast down over
[00:00:26]Bryan Fields: here. Yeah, I think that’s right. So Michael, just for the record, your location
[00:00:31]Michael Johnson: please. Uh, we are in Lakeland, Florida, which is, uh, a very kind of a place where all the Florida man stories come from, uh, in between Tampa and Orlando.
[00:00:40] it’s kind of where the business is founded and, and, um, where our founder’s from and sat down roots here, uh, one way, shape, or form 30 years ago. I
[00:00:49]Bryan Fields: love it. So let the record state another East coaster. K. So Michael, for our listeners that aren’t familiar, right? You, can you give it a little background about yourself?
[00:00:55]Michael Johnson: Yeah, I, uh, so I’ve been a part of metric here for almost two [00:01:00] years. Um, before that I advised Metric a little bit. Uh, I grew up mostly on the finance side. Of, of the technology world, um, working for a variety of software companies and trying to help folks, um, help businesses grow rapid growth businesses, businesses that need to kind of be rethought a little bit.
[00:01:17] Um, and was very fortunate to come across from the folks here at Metric. Um, kind of, kind of had a, an interesting introduction. Got to know them a little bit better, got to see kind of where we’re at and um, and, and hopefully. , uh, hopefully we’ll continue to see us make a, a, a strong transition from being sort of this government focused black box into something that, um, we think is a little bit more, uh, representative of the entire legal ecosystem in, in trying to support, uh, the growth of cannabis and the support of cannabis, uh, to, in a, in a way that protects public health and, um, maintains, uh, the level of compliance and sophistication necessary for a really, really complex supply chain.
[00:01:56] E. It
[00:01:57]Bryan Fields: certainly is. For our listeners that may be just [00:02:00] unfamiliar with metric, can you give a high level overview of like the, the role metric plays in
[00:02:04]Michael Johnson: cannabis? Absolutely Metric is currently the system of record for 23, uh, states and jurisdictions. So we’re in Washington, DC and Guam in addition to 21 states.
[00:02:15] Uh, everything that happens in the cannabis supply chain, what we refer to as, uh, from seed to sale uses what we refer to as the track and trace system. Um, and that allows, uh, state regulators and folks that participate in the ecosystem. To have, uh, really strong visibility into the data, uh, and into all of the events that happen in a cannabis lifecycle from seed or more, more commonly from clone all the way to retail sale and kind of everything along the way.
[00:02:44]Bryan Fields: It’s beautiful. So just to give more context, it is a software program, correct.
[00:02:49]Michael Johnson: It is, we are a software company. Uh, we do facilitate, uh, the identification of both plants and packages, uh, using a globally unique 16 character identifier that does [00:03:00] have, uh, hex ID encryption functionality in it. Uh, we’re frequently associated with the RFID chip that is within our, uh, our identifiers.
[00:03:09] Uh, we, we do use RFID because it is. the Absolute most efficient and effective, uh, kind of element for identification, especially for passive identification and data collection in the supply chain. There’s a reason why, uh, last year Walmart mandated it across the board for everything in their supply chain.
[00:03:27] Uh, provides tremendous visibility, much more cost savings when, when used, um, and certainly a, a much more robust, uh, visibility. Uh, much more robust supply chain and greater visibility for both the, the, the growers, uh, the consumers and, and for, uh, regulatory agencies, and I guess really anybody in the supply chain.
[00:03:47] So metric
[00:03:48]Kellan Finney: is kind of the, uh, a cornerstone pillar. Cannabis as we know it today. Right. And can you wanna kind of walk us through why a track and trace system is paramount [00:04:00] to the cannabis industry even being adopted
[00:04:02]Michael Johnson: in the first place? . Yeah, absolutely. So there’s a lot of folks that, you know, are, are tried and true, like love cannabis, love everything about it, and there’s a lot of folks that aren’t.
[00:04:10] Right? Yeah. And, and that, that balance is, is a lot closer to a balance than, than they, uh, you know, than a 90 10 kind of a thing. And so for folks to get comfortable, uh, with the legal, legal market, um, especially given that it’s a fairly nascent industry, you know, not much more than 10 years. It’s really important to make sure that you’re, you’re kind of covering all the bases, uh, to help folks that maybe aren’t super comfortable with cannabis.
[00:04:34] And you’re seeing a lot of that right now in New York as they work through the, some of the issues and some of the challenges with getting their program off the ground. And then of course, you’ve got a lot of folks that have, that have that love cannabis and they wanna make sure it works out well, but they wanna protect public health.
[00:04:46] and they wanna protect the, um, you know, the consumer and they wanna make sure that we’re building something that’s lasting, that, um, is, is destigmatized and has value, uh, certainly much more beyond just kind of what you’re seeing in, in your own [00:05:00] neighborhood. Something that can be, um, that can, that can be.
[00:05:03] Have a lot more staying power and um, really become something that’s ubiquitous throughout the United States and, and increasingly in other parts of the world like Europe
[00:05:11]Bryan Fields: does. That puts your team in a kind of a unique spot, right? Your customers versus your clients are kind of relatively different than I think most of the industry thinks about, right?
[00:05:18] For example, your customers might be the state governments that are kind of, uh, working with metric where your clients are the users of the, the operators. Can you kind of
[00:05:26]Michael Johnson: expand. . Yeah, it’s, it’s a really weird dynamic to be honest, and I’ve never been a part of anything like that. And, and I’ve, I’ve definitely met some folks that have similar experiences, but nothing quite like what we’ve got here in cannabis.
[00:05:37] And it seems like that’s, um, fairly consistent regardless of where you’re at in the cannabis ecosystem and what state you’re in. Cause that’s obviously very different too. Um, so our customers is, is the government and, uh, usually the. Now that’s been the focus of metric for, you know, a decade. Um, but the reality is that there’s 360,000 average active users in metric at any given, [00:06:00] uh, in any given month.
[00:06:01] And only about a thousand of those are regulators or, uh, folks that, that participate in the government. Sometimes on the tax side, uh, sometimes public health side. All, all different angles from the government. So the vast, vast, vast majority of the folks that are working inside of metric are license holders.
[00:06:17] They’re growers, they’re distributors, transporters, um, you know, they own dispensaries. And so our, um, even though they’re not our actual customer, uh, the. The viewpoint, uh, needs to be and is certainly transformed and metric that, that they are, that anybody in the ecosystem, anybody that touches metric, is a metric customer.
[00:06:36] Uh, and our, our objective is to make sure they have a delightful experience in metric. It is, it is a compliance tool. Um, so it’s a little bit tricky to make sure that folks that maybe aren’t a huge fan of, of being compliant or c compliance, uh, have a great experience. But that’s, that’s kinda what we aim to.
[00:06:53] We also have another customer segment, our third customer segment, which is in many ways just as important as the first two. And that’s [00:07:00] our, that’s our integration partners. And so folks at Integrating Tome are able to provide really strong value add solutions to the ecosystem, whether it’s from a point of sale perspective, an E R P perspective, uh, a lot of really great companies out there providing data, um, others solving problems.
[00:07:15] Uh, we have over 650 integrated relat. and that number keeps growing as people continue to build, uh, really great products to try and support the ecosystem. So you guys have a lot of, uh, cloud-based,
[00:07:27]Kellan Finney: uh, software solutions for the cannabis industry. And I was curious in those early days, like a decade ago, I mean like banks haven’t been the friendliest to cannabis operators.
[00:07:39] Did you guys, I know that your, your customers are state governments, but even though there’s not this federal oversight, do you guys, did you guys get some pushback from some of the, the larger data centers that you guys were contracting to store all this information in? And, and kind of talk us through those early days with, uh, during those conversations and how that all kind of came to.
[00:07:59]Michael Johnson: Yeah, it, it [00:08:00] predates me a bit, but, you know, a decade ago you didn’t see as much, um, a as, as much in a software space being, uh, put in the cloud in aws. There’s a lot of localized data centers. Um, we used one called Rackspace, which for a period of time was the largest. Uh, we’ve, we’ve actually migrated recently, uh, from Rackspace to our product, being in the Microsoft Azure Cloud, which is, um, which has been a game changer.
[00:08:24] um, performance is a very big deal for me. Uh, we brought in a new CTO a few months ago, uh, and we’re, we are hyper-focused at trying to improve the speed in the performance of the system. Uh, we expect that that spinning wheel to, to go away and, and get destroyed as, as quickly as possible. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a lot harder than, than it might seem.
[00:08:47] Um, metric is an enterprise level tool, which means it’s not gonna function the same way that Facebook or Instagram’s gonna function on your phone. Um, for folks that have spent time in Oracle or s a p, uh, typically [00:09:00] it’s you, you have a little bit of thinking that happens. They have, they have their own spinning wheels.
[00:09:04] Well, as, as we mentioned earlier, our customers, you know, 359,000 ish of them are, are users that operators and, and. Trying to run their businesses and not necessarily used to the same, uh, kind of an environment where an Oracle or an s a p would work. And so it’s incumbent upon us, even though we have so much data and are at that same level, uh, from a, from a, a, just a simple size perspective as some of those enterprise solutions.
[00:09:31] it’s critical for us to make sure that we are meeting our customers where they’re at, and we’re trying to find the very best experience that we can. So, a lot harder than you might think because of the, the level of, uh, data and the volume and the activity that occurs within metric. Um, that doesn’t mean that it’s impossible and certainly something we are on a mission to improve sooner than later.
[00:09:51]Bryan Fields: it’s gotta be an endless battle of trying to scale in front of the demand and the needs, especially as additional states come online and more users come online because your, your team essentially has to be trying to [00:10:00] operate in front of everyone else. And as the system continues to scale on the expectation scale, that’s an investment in resources and time and infrastructure that is not as easy as just connecting kind of dots on, on a
[00:10:09]Michael Johnson: page.
[00:10:10] Yeah, it’s, and it’s hard, it’s hard to think about, cause most of us aren’t in the software space. Most of us use, you know, an app or we use a program, or we’ll use, you’ll be in Google, you know, send an email and it just happens instantaneously. And, uh, the front end, the user experience is the part that. , we tend to have the, the most, uh, familiarity with, and the best relationship with Metric has spent the vast majority of its existence trying to harden what happens underneath.
[00:10:35] So the, the UI isn’t, uh, I wouldn’t describe it as the, as the easiest and most intuitive. Um, that’s something we’re, we’re very aware of and paying attention to. There’s been a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of money over many, many years trying to harden the backends so that we can handle different things.
[00:10:49] To give you some perspective, um, we have one integrator in one. Actually, we have, well, many integrators, but there’s, there’s one that I was just talking to yesterday, that’s why it’s top of mind. Um, that passes, uh, a hundred [00:11:00] and or 1.5 million calls, uh, every single day, which means that you’re of, uh, that’s connection into the system, passing information, uh, or pulling information out every single day.
[00:11:11] Um, so you can’t just build. a system, like a simple app that handles something like that. It’s very, very difficult once you to to start to scale something, especially once you get past a certain size because there’s just not that many, uh, software programs out there. And, and the ways something has to be built to be able to handle that level of volume and 360,000 people, you know, kind of plugging away at it every single day is, is very different than, um, maybe a typical app or something you might use on a day in and day out basis.
[00:11:40] So
[00:11:40]Kellan Finney: when you guys designed that, I mean, it’s, it’s kind of, it’s gotta be really challenging to build, uh, an interface for the diverse set of
[00:11:51]Michael Johnson: operators out in,
[00:11:52]Kellan Finney: in the cannabis industry. How has that kind of obstacle been, um, handled by your guys’ team from [00:12:00] like a customer. Service perspective, because you probably have skillsets from I know how to program to, I don’t know, an Excel sheet looks like.
[00:12:07] Correct. And you have to, you do kind of
[00:12:08]Michael Johnson: create a program that fits, helps everyone . We do, we do. And it’s difficult as I think, um, for some folks we, we’ve certainly, you know, heard, hey, you know, metric doesn’t make sense or I can’t figure out how to do something in metric. Um, for other folks who say it’s super simple.
[00:12:22] Um, and a lot of that’s familiarity and it really is a simple tool that doesn’t mean that it’s always simple to navigate. , but it’s a simplistic tool. And because there are so many different use cases, uh, when you consider state by state, uh, but also when you consider how people do things, it’s not like.
[00:12:38] You know, there’s been 50 years of folks that have, uh, gone to college to figure out how to farm cannabis or, you know, figure out how to distribute cannabis in, in the legal market at least, um, and, and run a dispensary in the same way that things happen in cannabis. It’s very different. It’s, it’s wildly different.
[00:12:54] The industry really, like I said, only, only around for about a decade. Uh, there’s new stuff that [00:13:00] we’re learning all the time. There’s new stuff that the, the states that are coming online are learning and, and certainly folks that are participating, uh, we’re gonna continue to have highs and lows. It’s a, it’s a bit of a, a bit of a chilly time, especially in, in some of the states that have been around longer than than others.
[00:13:15] Um, and certainly for some of those operators. And unfortunately, those growing pains are, are natural when you think about an industry. that is as young as, as cannabis in, in the legal markets is. And, uh, our objective is to try and be the very best partner, be the backbone of the, of the legal market, such that folks can, can find their best solutions that fit their exact use case.
[00:13:38] Um, usually from, from one of our integrator partners. Uh, but sometimes, you know, within metric. To try and be successful. Um, as I mentioned, we did bring in a new CTO a few months back, and so number one objective is to, is to strengthen and harden our performance such that. , that spinning wheel goes away and is, is gone forever.
[00:13:58] Uh, number two after that is [00:14:00] usability. Making sure that we’re providing the best, uh, best experience, best features so that folks can have a, um, uh, um, I, I wouldn’t say, I dunno if I can say a pleasurable experience with compliance, but at least not a painful experience with compliance. Um, we think the best way to get, uh, to, to the highest level of compliance is to make it frictionless.
[00:14:19] So we’re trying to do the very best we can at improving that and support. , all of those different use cases of which there are many different use cases state by state and uh, licensee by licensee. Do you think one
[00:14:29]Bryan Fields: of the areas that’s challenging for some of the users is the fact that there’s like some educational gaps in between understanding some of the regulations to be compliant in the steps because that has to be kind of a missing piece for newer employees.
[00:14:39] Wondering why has to take these additional steps that metrics asking it to, do you think that could be an issue?
[00:14:43]Michael Johnson: It’s 100% an issue. So we have 70 full-time support people that’s half our company. It’s crazy. Um, that’s crazy. . I do not take them all day, but I take them because it’s important. Um, it’s important that, that we know what’s happening.
[00:14:55] Uh, customer service, the customer experience. [00:15:00] Absolutely critical. And so if there’s three things I’ve heard, uh, being a part of Metrc and being in the CEO chair here for, you know, a handful of months, um, it’s, number one, support’s critical. We need help. Uh, number two, training we could learn a lot better.
[00:15:12] And number three, uh, performance, most notably the spinning wheel. . So those are the three areas that I am obsessed with. I mean, maniacally focused like my hair’s on fire at, at tackling. And so we can’t make better decisions from a support perspective, uh, if we’re not really going to the front lines and seeing it.
[00:15:29] So that’s why I take calls. Um, and I will tell you almost every call I’ve ever taken has nothing to do with Metrc It’s, you think it has something to do with Metrc and the folks that call in think it has something to do with Metrc But the reality is it’s, it’s about the regulation and understanding.
[00:15:42] how something works and well, why can’t I move this package? You know what requires a test? Well, Metrc won’t let me move it cuz it’s requiring a test. Well, Metrc won’t let you move it. because the regulation requires you to test and Metrc is configured to match the regulations. Now when you think about [00:16:00] anything in the, in the government, um, and, and anywhere you’ve been at when you were probably 16 when you passed your driver’s test, right?
[00:16:06] Ish, give or take. And maybe, maybe some of us, I don’t know, have had to take, you know, a couple of those. Uh, traffic school, uh, you know, Maybe in a non-voluntary way. Um, but outside of that, when, when do you find out about changes to the traffic laws? Things change all the time. You’ve got different, different, you know, new laws that were passed 10 years ago, you know, nothing about.
[00:16:29] And it’s not like there’s, in any aspect of the world, there’s these educational sessions that everybody’s required to go through or take some kind of a quiz or a test, except for that one time when you were 16 on what happens with those laws. Similarly with cannabis, and those laws tend to be a lot newer.
[00:16:45] You didn’t grow up with them, you didn’t, you know, see your parents and everybody else on the road following the same rules, so you didn’t even know what they. , you go to the State’s website, they’re written in legal ease as rules tend to be, and there’s a reason why they’re written that way. Um, it’s not, it’s not necessarily the most intuitive.
[00:16:59][00:17:00] And so even if it is, even if you read at all, that doesn’t mean that you know how to pull it together. . And so the state generally speaking, doesn’t have a support desk, a help desk. They’re there to, to administer the laws, not to explain the laws to everyone. And so we get a lot of questions cuz we have 70 support people, um, about what, why I can’t do something or how something works.
[00:17:17] And, and a lot of it ends up being educational in terms of, uh, helping people understand the regulations. A lot of it ends up being educational in terms of how people can actually navigate their business. Uh, in inside of the regulations, um, and in many ways we, we hope and we think we’re helping people be compliant, uh, protect public health and, and ultimately build stronger and more robust businesses.
[00:17:39] Um, we think that’s the case. I’m sure sometimes, and I’m sure some people wouldn’t agree, uh, but that’s certainly the objective and, and I feel like that commitment is there when you do a little bit of a better job in terms of execution. A little bit of a better job in terms of providing visibility when there’s more complicated tickets, uh, and certainly doing a little bit of a better job to be able to provide multiple avenues for people to access [00:18:00] our support folks so that you can get the help you need as quickly as possible.
[00:18:03] When new states
[00:18:04]Kellan Finney: come online, do the regulators actually reach out to you guys and be like, Hey, We know that you guys have been helping a lot of other markets do this. Like do you have any pointers, suggestions? Is there a collaborative relationship that you guys have with the regulators or is it kind of like information flows one way and that’s
[00:18:20]Michael Johnson: the end of it?
[00:18:22] It’s gonna depend on the regulator. There’s also a lot. Okay. a lot of, um, unique rules about government contracting. And so, um, we certainly don’t wanna violate any of those rules. So we’re pretty pick solid healthcare, um, being thoughtful about reaching out in the right ways, um, reaching out the appropriate times, not reaching out.
[00:18:39] We’re not supposed to, uh, frequently public contracts are, are won by R F P, which is a, which is a public process. Uh, and so those have very specific rules. They’re very in depth. There are many hundreds of pages. , oddly, but probably not super surprisingly, they’re frequently required to be provided in hard copy.
[00:18:56] Um, and so, you know, you, you go through these [00:19:00] different cycles enough times, uh, that you, you kind of know where you can step and where you can’t. There are a number of scenarios where folks have reached out, um, that are in, that are, you know, trying to regulate non metric states for guidance. Um, there’s a number of scenarios where folks have, have passed legislation and they just need help on, on how they’re structuring things.
[00:19:19] And so, uh, we’re gonna, I’ll answer any question for any person. I don’t care whether it’s, uh, somebody in a metric state, a non metric state, a competitor, or not a competitor. Uh, our goal is to try and support the, the foundations and the, um, the rails of that legal market. Uh, we think we can all prosper from.
[00:19:35] Um, and there’s, it’s a, it’s a pretty exciting space, um, and it’s, it’s a hell of a time to be involved in it. I
[00:19:42]Bryan Fields: feel like the RFP puts your team in a really challenging bind, right? You’re bidding for the governmental contract, but understanding that, kind of like what goes into that from behind the scenes standpoint, but understanding.
[00:19:50] If your team works with 23 different states, you understand the scaling that needs into it, plus the resources that are expected in order to achieve the delight status that you spoke about is [00:20:00] a very complicated balance of wanting to win the contract, but also understanding how to satisfy the demand. So how does your team balance those options?
[00:20:07]Michael Johnson: Yeah. And it’s, it’s actually a third thing as well. It’s price. So, I mean, track and trace contracts aren’t, um, they’re not the, they’re not the most profitable. And so finding ways to, to balance what’s desired and needed from the state, and then also create something that is, um, that’s competitive from a pricing perspective is important.
[00:20:24] And you kind of look at, um, some of the other ways that government software works. Um, there’s a variety of ways that folks are able to try and eek out a living, but there’s a reason why a ton of people don’t make government software. It’s, it’s not. It’s not, there’s not a lot of people in, uh, very big houses that have built a lot of government software.
[00:20:40] There’s some, um, we, they don’t work here, I’ll tell you that. Um, but we, so we, we try and balance it. We wanna be profitable. Um, some of our competitors have have other offerings and other products, and they’re able to generate revenue in, in different ways. We don’t. we have one. Um, and our commitment to kind of, kind of, uh, tiptoeing that line and making sure that we’re [00:21:00] providing something that’s compliant, um, and working with partners that can provide, uh, our value add solutions is something that’s important to us.
[00:21:06] Uh, we wanna maintain our, kind of our, our, uh, perspective in terms of trying to support the foundation and really get back to our core thesis of being that infrastructure supporting function. Um, and so for us it creates a big challenge. trying to be profitable. And I think we all are trying to be profitable and hopefully, we’ll, we’ll make some more progress on that, um, this year and in the coming years, but also trying to honor what the states are, are wanting to accomplish, um, and also being able to, to provide delightful customer service.
[00:21:37] And, um, so as I mentioned, like those, the three areas that people are really focused on for metric are the areas where it’s, it’s hard and it’s expensive. And so those, that’s why, that’s why it works the way it does, cuz it’s hard and it’s expensive to do those things. . Uh, and, and I’m sure there’s many things I can, I can imagine the feedback on this pretty quickly.
[00:21:57] Well, it’s not hard to pick up the phone. Yeah, it, you’re right. It’s [00:22:00] not. But when you get 10,000 calls a day, sometimes it is. And so we’re doing the very best we can to, to find ways that we can make sure that we’re successful, regardless of whether we get 10,000 calls or one call, that every, uh, every person that’s interacting with metric has that delightful experience and, and feels very important because we do value everybody that participates in the metric e.
[00:22:21]Bryan Fields: Has there been one area that surprised or shocked you that before you took the job, you thought one way and then, you know, into the job you realized completely different than what you originally thought?
[00:22:31]Michael Johnson: Yes. Uh, I thought that metric would, um, I thought that the value that was provided was a little bit clearer, uh, to folks.
[00:22:42] And the reality is, is that I don’t think, it’s not unclear. Uh, I think it’s that metric hasn’t done a good job at explaining it. Uh, you definitely, we definitely had our fair share of folks that have, uh, had their frustrations and, you know, shared their perspective on how metric can be better and sometimes just shared a lot of their perspectives, uh, very loudly,[00:23:00]
[00:23:01] and I welcome that, right? Because we, there’s lots of stuff that metric’s done very well at. There’s lots of areas where we just haven’t, uh, and if I don’t know it, if I don’t know it’s a problem because people don’t tell me it’s a problem, then it’s really hard for hard for me to know to fix it. Um, the, the, the perspective, this kind of laser focus on creating the best government solution, uh, has been really, really strong for the government.
[00:23:22] Um, we, we just need to show up the other. . And so I was a little bit surprised, uh, at some of the, some of the conversations with folks. Um, and it really opened up my eyes to, uh, the importance of being that trusted partner as folks are kind of navigating the legal cannabis space. I gotta give you a ton of
[00:23:40] credit,
[00:23:41]Bryan Fields: right?
[00:23:41] I, I went into this before we met, thinking one thing about you and your team, but then hearing your customer service focus, I think, really changed my perspective because es essentially, you don’t have to actually care about the operators the way you’re describing it, right? You’re a government focused software solution where the operators are forced to use it, and I give you a ton of credit for actually being willing to be in the trenches, to listen to the customers and to [00:24:00] figure out ways to help the operators, to help them be more compliant so that they can be educated and understanding what they need to do in order to be c.
[00:24:07]Michael Johnson: Yeah, I, I mean, I do think we have to care about all the users, but, but the contract’s with the state, right? Our contract’s not with the users. And so, um, we can, we can certainly turn a blind eye to that, but that’s, that’s a, that’s a really shortsighted, kind of a, kind of a, an approach. Um, , it, it’s, it would be great if, um, and, and we’ve actually been very fortunate, uh, in some of the last few states we’ve won, we’ve gotten some really excellent feedback.
[00:24:33] Like, yes, metric one, like we’re, we’re gonna be able to, you know, kind of have some that, that great foundation, that great infrastructure that will underpin our market. Um, tremendous feedback from New Jersey. I, I, I was actually. Um, quite surprised now, of course, I’ve been quite surprised in the other way as well.
[00:24:48] So, um, we need to do the very best we can to make metric desired, not required, and to, um, find a way to make compliance frictionless and to find opportunities, little pockets, [00:25:00] uh, of areas where we can, we can surprise and delight Our superpower is the ability to be able to give folks. Reliable single source of truth and to have that, um, visibility in a closed loop supply chain that frankly doesn’t exist anywhere else on the planet.
[00:25:15] So with, uh, say
[00:25:17]Kellan Finney: New Jersey, right. Were you guys in New Jersey as a track and trace system for their medical market? And if so, is
[00:25:22]Michael Johnson: that transition easier to,
[00:25:26]Kellan Finney: uh, launch kind of the recreational software solution that metric provides versus the medicinal
[00:25:32]Michael Johnson: software? Yeah, it, well, medical and adult use are very different.
[00:25:35] Um, yeah, be clear. I mean, you’ve got, and we tend to, we, we tend to partner with folks that are excellent from a patient licensing perspective and, and really can help, um, make sure that all of the medical requirements are covered. Um, they’re experts at that, you know, and we’ve, we have tremendous appreciation for their partnership.
[00:25:52] Uh, for, for New Jersey, it was a bit of, a bit of, A different path from medical to adult use. So, um, it was, it was a little bit of a leaner medical [00:26:00] program than you see in other states. And so adult use, um, certainly enables, uh, much more of a broad representation of legal cannabis in that state. Uh, we were not, uh, part, I think we had.
[00:26:12] We’re not a formal part, I would say, of the, of the medical program there in, in New Jersey. And this predates me a little bit, so I, I apologize for, um, for any ambiguity. Uh, but we are, we, we kicked off our program as if it’s a, a brand new program, uh, in, in New Jersey for adult use. Um, and it’s going well. I mean, it’s new.
[00:26:29] Right. Every, every state’s gonna have its speed bumps and, and every time you do anything new at all, of any kind, it’s gonna have its speed bumps. But, uh, we’re, we’re really proud and with great partners in New Jersey, uh, and we, we feel really strongly that New Jersey’s going to be one of the stronger markets as it continues to mature As
[00:26:46]Bryan Fields: states make adjustments in the regulations, the expectation is internally your team has to make adjustments in the software.
[00:26:51] Is that, is that.
[00:26:53]Michael Johnson: Yes. And sometimes those, those, uh, adjustments happen very rapidly. And so just cause
[00:26:59]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Expand, [00:27:00] expand, expand on how, how challenging something like that is when like a change comes down and the expectation internally is that the software has to be deployed out, changes have to be made, it has to be arced out and it has to be then scaled.
[00:27:10]Michael Johnson: It’s, and it’s not, it’s not just us, right? It we’re, we’re a domino in a very long string of dominoes. Um, and so even the regulatory agencies in, in a given state do not necessarily control all the changes to, to statutes. And so if something passes, In a particular state government, and it could be affected very rapidly.
[00:27:30] Uh, that could require metric to be, you know, sometimes things pass and they say within 30 days, within 45 days. Well, software doesn’t work that way. Just like houses don’t, you know, don’t get billed overnight. And so some of these changes are not insignificant. Um, we get changes in, it’s not uncommon for us to get changes in the middle of December that are effective on one one.
[00:27:49] Uh, and so that happened in a couple of states this year. And so what happens is we have to make the change. And of course, you know, we have, we have folks that have planned holidays and we, we don’t have a huge team. Um, we have a, a decent [00:28:00] sized team, a really good, strong, scrappy team. Um, but it’s not like I have, we just have this endless bench of people that we can pull in on December 23rd to.
[00:28:08] To, to make some fundamental changes to the system. And so, um, so it definitely happens. Uh, we wanna be the best partners we can. We try and get the information. We try and get it, uh, we try and get the best solution we can in place as quickly as possible. And then more importantly, Uh, make sure that folks are aware of what that means because you could not pay attention to any of the changes, not be aware of it.
[00:28:30] Again, no one’s going to school, they’re not getting an email. So I’m explaining to you line by line that this rule changed this week, and now you have to have to do some different things in your business. Uh, so we need to make sure that we’re doing the best we can to educate folks that are, that are in whatever state’s impacted.
[00:28:44] and we need to work with our third party integrated partners, 650. Uh, different organizations may have to also make very, very fundamental changes to their software system and their integration into Metrc There’s a lot that happens very quickly. Um, it tends [00:29:00] to be a bit frustrating for folks. Um, it’s, it’s certainly frustrating.
[00:29:04] It’s frustrating for many of our states that are coming up with the rules because they sometimes have to be reacted to the forces in the states. Uh, it’s certainly frustrating for, for the folks that are operating to kind of have to adapt and adjust. And it’s frustrating for folks that are trying to build their systems to be able to adapt and adjust.
[00:29:19] And one of the, and you guys just get to sit in the. We do, we’re a domino ,
[00:29:24]Bryan Fields: but I think the one thing that I think it’s not clear, but I I wanna bring up is that, that is just one state, right? You’re in 23 states, so potentially there could be multiple states causing multiple changes at the same time. And the expectation is that your team needs to react
[00:29:37]Michael Johnson: likely, quickly.
[00:29:39] Absolutely. Yeah. And, and we have, we’ve done a decent job, I think at that at times. And, and other times we haven’t. Uh, and it’s, it’s not easy. And I’m certainly not asking for, for anybody to have any empathy. That’s our job. That’s what we signed up for. Uh, but it is, it is certainly more challenging. That might meet the eye.
[00:29:55] Alright,
[00:29:56]Bryan Fields: let’s do a, a new segment called, that’s the internet. [00:30:00] I just made that up. Michael, why is California’s cannabis track and trace data statutory exempt from the Public’s Records Act with Access Limited exclusively to the state’s cannabis licensing agency and tax agency and law enforcement by request?
[00:30:17]Michael Johnson: That is a question for the state of California, we, we didn’t, we don’t have anything to do with that. We don’t, um, create the rules. We don’t create the laws. Um, there’s certainly a number of unique reasons why. I, I’m sure California felt that way, but I’d be speculating. Um, there’s, there’s a lot of limitation in data in every state that, that has a program.
[00:30:38] Um, and, and I’m sure they all have unique reasons as to why, uh, we do the best we can to support the agency, support the industry, and, uh, help facilitate compliance in a, in a strong, uh, legal market protecting public health.
[00:30:53]Bryan Fields: Why keep a system in a recreational market that was originally created for. We don’t need to track beer [00:31:00] sales.
[00:31:00] Right. So why cannabis?
[00:31:02]Michael Johnson: Um, well, I mean, it, it was created for medical, I mean, lots of software programs are created for different reasons and then there’s different flavors. Uh, I mean, cannabis seems to be tracked. There’s challenges in the market. I mean, pub seconding, public health’s a real issue. There’s in every single state, whether it’s a metric state or not, there’s been, uh, different recalls.
[00:31:22] There’s been scenarios where, um, there’s been challenges to enforcing public health. There’s been a lot of issues as it relates to, um, building a really strong, a legitimate market that requires the level of visibility, uh, that metric affords. It’s about protecting public health, keeping people. . Um, and, and beer sales is not really the best comparison because, um, first of all, that’s, that’s grow.
[00:31:44] It’s not something that grows out of the ground. Of course, there’s certainly agricultural elements associated with it. Um, but there’s a variety of different elements in cannabis that create, um, some unique nuances in protecting public health, protecting children. I’m protecting folks that might [00:32:00] not appreciate all of the elements of cannabis, the psychoactive.
[00:32:04] they, we absolutely need to do the very best we can. That’s really the only way that we’re going to help build a sustainable legal market, um, is, is one that people can rely on and have confidence in. Uh, cannabis is, A tremendous opportunity, but just like any opportunity, it can go, it can go a couple different ways.
[00:32:23] Uh, track and trace visibility in protecting public health and public trust is stalwart in terms of making sure that is a sustainable and successful industry for many years to come. Yeah. And I also wanna just say that, uh,
[00:32:38]Kellan Finney: beer is legal federally and cannabis is not. And if we want to continue to change the cultural stigma associated with cannabis, we don’t need a state that has an adult use market that isn’t keeping track of what is being manufactured in that state to then transport said product to another state that isn’t, doesn’t have a recreational market.
[00:32:58]Michael Johnson: Um, I just wanna throw that in there. So [00:33:00]
[00:33:01]Bryan Fields: transparency and visibil visibility. Best, this is pretty specific question. Best, easiest, and compliant way to add new genetics to
[00:33:09]Michael Johnson: metric. Uh, I’d have to talk you through it. I’m not gonna answer this directly cause I’d have to kind of walk you through it. Um, I’ll tell you, this is an area that we pay really close attention to as cannabis is federally illegal.
[00:33:21] The, uh, ability to patent your different new, um, different, uh, crosses and. Different plants with different genetic makeup is certainly something that’s important. There’s a ton of mom and pop shops folks that really, really spend a ton of time, uh, honing their craft, developing these, these special strains.
[00:33:39] Um, and then they’re at risk of people taking them or copying them, and that’s something that. Uh, at, from a compliance perspective is an area that we pay close attention to because it’s usually protected somewhere else and it’s not. So how do we help partner with folks? How do we give them the best information?
[00:33:55] Uh, how do we make sure that the industry overall is protected? So these are different areas. [00:34:00] Uh, this is an example of an area that we’ve spent time talking, uh, with some of our regulatory partners with. Um, certainly heard a lot of, a lot of complaints, uh, a lot of fear out of folks that, um, feel like they’ve developed something incredible.
[00:34:13] And you know, as soon as they get on the market or you know, somebody breaks in and seals a plant, that’s a big problem. And so we want to, we wanna be thoughtful of that. Uh, and this is really just one very small example of how we’re trying to think of value add opportunities to support the legal compliant market.
[00:34:30] Will that help with their
[00:34:30]Kellan Finney: patent application? Will they be able to like, reference them inputting that genetics as like, uh, um, some sort of evidence to support their patent in the future? Is that kind
[00:34:39]Michael Johnson: of where your head. I’m not a patent attorney, so good answer. I hear anything I’m saying is, uh, as, as legal advice.
[00:34:47] Um, I would hope that, I would think, based on what I know about patents, so we have 10, um, that any, any evidence of something existing in the world, uh, earlier than later is, is helpful. It’s meaningful, smart, uh, whether or not that’s going to [00:35:00] be meaningful enough to secure somebody, a patent or. Can’t provide that, uh, that perspective.
[00:35:06] Um, but we wanna do the best we can to support folks in any way possible. And this is certainly something that’s come up. That’s a beautiful answer, by the way,
[00:35:14]Bryan Fields: is your, is your team tracking any data? Have they found any trends? And are you planning on releasing a published peer review paper in the future?
[00:35:22]Michael Johnson: That’s an excellent question. So we, the data’s not ours. The data belongs to the state. It belongs to you as the consumer, and it belongs to the different licensee. Um, there are different scenarios where any of those, um, different, different stakeholders has asked us to spend time in the data. And we certainly spend time in the data as it relates to trying to improve the product or to improve the customer experience, um, in terms of a peer reviewed paper, I don’t know that we have gotten a number of, uh, over the years there’s been a number of different, um, reviews and, uh, uh, papers, um, that have been reviewed, um, that dig into.
[00:35:57] Some of the effects [00:36:00] of, um, metric in a market that’s legal without metric, um, metric in, in regards to how the legal market processes things. Um, but the data for us is not something that we’re gonna share without anybody’s permission. Uh, we, we very, very much value, um, our customers, um, both state and users, and we’re certainly not out here trying.
[00:36:22] that data. If people would like to make their data available for research projects and whatnot, we’re certainly happy to partner with those folks. Assuming we get the proper permission.
[00:36:30]Bryan Fields: Are there any plans to alter the current API or the constant issues of the uptime that’s, uh, a constant request
[00:36:37]Michael Johnson: by others?
[00:36:38] Yeah, so, uh, uptime is, well, let me, let me talk about api. So, API for metric, um, is actually completely free. And that’s an interesting thing because the API itself, Well, a, it’s an extremely rare thing. Um, for us, the API’s a little bit more basic than you would typically hope, uh, kind of a world class API would be.
[00:36:58] And again, that comes back to [00:37:00] the economics of it. Um, and so there are a number of integrators that have requested very specific. Either endpoints or access or, um, web hooks are very common. And so we’ve definitely begun partnership with, with some folks on developing that. Uh, we call it Metric Connect. Um, we’re certainly, uh, working with folks.
[00:37:20] It’s actually been beta tested, uh, with more than 10 a p i integrators. Uh, we expect that to grow and we expect people to continue to get that opportunity if they. Metrics API will always have a free option. The vast majority of books, um, should, should never pay for access to metrics api. But if you want things that are above and beyond what we would consider kind of the the norm, um, we certainly want to give you that option as well.
[00:37:44] And then for, uh, the uptime, so metrics uptime is actually quite good. Um, the difference between uptime and I think what the question’s probably asking is kind of what we refer to as functional time. And so the product itself being. and the product moving at the [00:38:00] pace that you expect is not necessarily the same thing.
[00:38:03] The ladder is what I’m mostly concerned about, right? If the product’s not performing at the pace of your business, then it’s not performing the way that that we expect it to be. And so that’s the effort that we’re really focused on. Um, that doesn’t mean that there hasn’t been outages, of course there are, but, um, generally speaking, when folks are speaking, uh, about challenges with uptime, they’re talking about timeouts and how long things take.
[00:38:25] The system is still technically up. It’s just not performing at the same, uh, the same level that, that we aspire to. And so there has been dramatic improvements over the last handful of months, uh, especially, uh, since we made the migration to Azure. Certainly moves, um, quite a bit faster. Um, but we’re not done.
[00:38:43] And there’s a lot more opportunity to, in improve performance and to ensure that people have that delightful experience in metric. And we are, I, I, again, I cannot stress how committed we are to that.
[00:38:57]Bryan Fields: Are there any assets, efforts or strategies you [00:39:00] wish you people paid more
[00:39:01]Michael Johnson: attention? Um, yes. So there’s a lot of folks that, that will talk about metric as it relates to, um, kind of a compliance element, and they forget or miss this massive goldmine they have in front of them in R F I D.
[00:39:16] And so folks that are struggling to make money or you spend, you think you spend too much money on people or you need too many resources, probably not taking advantage of R F I D, whether it’s automated inventory counting, whether it’s, um, location and tracking. Uh, nutrients that you’re putting into plants or how much water or what location they’re in, um, or looking at the yields on a per plant basis.
[00:39:37] It is incredible. And a lot of say, a lot of people say it’s just too much. It takes too long. Um, the, I mean, it takes less than four seconds to, to go through an entire process from a manual process, uh, of, of weighing a plant if you’re using an RFID enabled. . Um, and if I have, you know, a room of a hundred plants, they’re just not all going to end up yielding the same amount.
[00:39:58] And if for, for many [00:40:00] growers, getting 10 more grams per plant would be, could be the difference between, you know, bankruptcy and being widely successful. Uh, that level of visibility and that data exists, it’s there. It’s passively collected. It’s cheap. You already have the, I mean most expensive part is the, is the inlay and the tag.
[00:40:17] If you had a similar RFID tag, that wasn’t a Metrc tag, but it was had like the similar specifications, you would pay three times as much In market. You have this amazing opportunity to, to get this information, to be very successful and to be at the cutting edge of efficiency as it relates to your operation.
[00:40:34] Again, grow operation distribution Uh, producing, manufacturing, whatever it is. Uh, folks just don’t take enough advantage of RFID and it really is a game changer.
[00:40:45]Kellan Finney: What’s the first step in like a smart factory?
[00:40:47]Michael Johnson: You know what I mean? It is, yeah. I mean, and, and folks say, uh, first of all, you already have the tag on there, so that’s usually like the biggest thing, like I have to, but the, the fact that you’ve got the tag, I mean the, the amount [00:41:00] of money saved and the, the fewer steps and fewer processes and the greater visibility.
[00:41:05] It’s just incredible. It’s such a gold mine. What’s a feature request? You
[00:41:10]Bryan Fields: get a lot, but you’ll never. .
[00:41:13]Michael Johnson: Um, we get a lot of questions about, uh, things that our partners do. So like ERPs, can we just add this one feature? Um, and, and we’re not an E R P and I don’t intend to go out and sell things to, to retailers, um, or, or cultivators.
[00:41:28] Uh, perhaps that day would come, but that’s not really our focus. Our focus is trying to create that strong foundational element. Uh, we certainly recommend that folks connect with, with the integration. . Um, we’re not trying to compete with our integration partners. We’re trying to create a better foundation so that they can be successful and provide meaningful, uh, opportunities for the industry.
[00:41:48]Bryan Fields: When you started your journey in the cannabis industry, what did you get? Right, and most importantly, what did you get wrong?
[00:41:54]Michael Johnson: Uh, what I got right is, uh, I thought I was like, all right, it’s cannabis. It’s just software though. It’s fine. It’s just a different product. That was right. [00:42:00] It is just software and, and we can say that it’s different and, and it is.
[00:42:03] There’s so many nuances with cannabis, but at the end of the day, The, the normal tenants of software, build a good product, make it reliable for people, and delight your customers is the same regardless of the industry. Uh, and so I got that right. I was very, very much, um, I think, I think that’s a universal truth and it’s certainly been proven out.
[00:42:24] What I got wrong is, um, folks, I, I think that the effort to demonstrate how we can. , we can make compliance easier for folks. I, I kind of thought that would be a little bit, a little bit simpler. Um, and a lot of the challenges are things that I just didn’t, I didn’t fully appreciate the complexity inside the industry, inside the state, inside the counties.
[00:42:46] And there’s rules that are different. County by county, there’s rules that are different inside of a city that’s inside of a county, that’s inside of a state. And, and depending on where you’re at, any of those three, the rules are different. So you just don’t know those things, uh, in the same way that you, that [00:43:00] you do when you actually live them day in and day.
[00:43:03] That
[00:43:03]Bryan Fields: was, uh, perfectly said. . Before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?
[00:43:13]Michael Johnson: Uh, find ways to think about the long, the long game, right? Even in your, I mean, this has been a hell of a hell of a year, uh, I guess the past 12 ish months for folks in the cannabis space.
[00:43:23] Um, you know, it’s very challenging for folks, uh, for, for some folks at least. to survive and to find ways to keep their business going. Um, I think about the long game and, you know, there’s definitely dark days. There’s definitely, you know, days when the sun comes out and the sun certainly always comes out after the dark days.
[00:43:39] Uh, we’ve had a lot of challenges here. I know, I know a lot of our customers have had challenges. Uh, I I try and think about the long game or, uh, and, and also try not to get too hung up. , kind of the individual ups and downs and nuances. I mean, I had great news when I came in today. I had not so great news right after that.
[00:43:57] And then great news, uh, great news again. So the [00:44:00] ebbs and flows will each yell live if you, uh, if you let ’em. And so, um, pay attention to the long game. I do believe that metric is doing everything possible to support. The success of the long game by creating this solid infrastructure, uh, where both consumers and non-consumers alike can have confidence in the legal ecosystem and in cannabis coming to their communities.
[00:44:23] Prediction
[00:44:23]Bryan Fields: time. Michael, if you can instantly change any aspects of operating in cannabis to get metric from being desired, not just required,
[00:44:32]Michael Johnson: what would you. , uh, I would outside of cannabis or in inside of metric, operating inside
[00:44:38]Bryan Fields: cannabis. So anything that metric can, can help influence to make operating in cannabis.
[00:44:43] not just being
[00:44:44]Michael Johnson: desired, but acquired. Yeah, I’d put metric in every state. Um, it’d be a lot easier if metric was in every state. And we create that standard because the state rules and regulations will always be different. Uh, just as one of the questions was about beer, the rules and regulations in, you know, in, [00:45:00] in liquor and beer are different everywhere, every county.
[00:45:03] I mean, I, I don’t know if it’s still true, but it was true for a long time that you couldn’t buy Jack Daniels in the county for which it was Distilled Uh, rules are always gonna change. They’re always gonna be like that. Uh, if you have a standard that pulls kind of everything together and takes this noise and distills it into the standard that’s common across the states, then you get into a situation where everybody’s speaking the same language, everybody’s compliant in the same kind of way.
[00:45:25] Uh, you really open the door to that kind of holy grail. At least. I think a lot of states in the west are peeling, which is interstate commerce, and even further beyond that, as you pay attention to what’s happening in. Europe Being able to export from the United States into Europe is gonna be massive for the industry.
[00:45:42] Uh, and the best way to do that is to, is to create a standard. Um, and so I would say, you know, that those, that those annoyances, um, when you rely on those annoyances of compliance to, be able to really grow your business at a way that you otherwise didn’t have the opportunity, well, then it, feels a lot more, [00:46:00] uh, desired than required.
[00:46:03]Kellan Finney: I mean, I think Michael said it perfectly. I
[00:46:05]Michael Johnson: think that the
[00:46:07]Bryan Fields: change
[00:46:08]Michael Johnson: is creating a
[00:46:10]Kellan Finney: universal
[00:46:11]Michael Johnson: system of regulation, right? Um, it’s
[00:46:14]Kellan Finney: challenging if you are working for an M MSO and say you are running the lab or manufacturing site in Illinois and then you. To Oregon, and then you gotta visit the site down in California and you’re dealing with very technical conversations associated with trying to achieve outcomes of product development.
[00:46:35] And then to throw another caveat in there, you also have to adjust your. Procedure based on what is allowed from a regulatory perspective in each one of those states, which then doesn’t help create universal products across state lines and kind of, uh, snowballs into this larger problem within the industry.
[00:46:55] So I think that at the end of the day, Uh, global framework for [00:47:00] con that
[00:47:00]Michael Johnson: everyone can follow is gonna be
[00:47:02]Kellan Finney: the most beneficial.
[00:47:03]Michael Johnson: Um, what do you think, Brian?
[00:47:05]Bryan Fields: Uh, I mean, it’s incredibly challenging, right? Your team needs to scale out in front of the industry’s needs to anticipate these, these ideas that are coming online, but also be flexible enough with the regulators that are, make these changes to implement the changes quickly and swiftly, but also then provide the education to the clients of the software so that they’re aware of the changes and the hurdles that go.
[00:47:23] All within this really finite balance, early in an industry, it’s incredibly complex and very, very challenging game. And Michael, for our listeners, they wanna get in touch, they wanna learn more about metric, and they wanna speak to you directly. I know you’re pretty open. Where can they find ya? Yeah, you
[00:47:36]Michael Johnson: can find me anytime.
[00:47:37] Feel free to email me anytime. Um, michael dot johnson metric.com. I’m fairly, uh, fairly active at LinkedIn. Uh, metric is [email protected]. Uh, we’ve got a lot of new folks in the last year. We kind of shifted our, our focus, so, uh, there’s some folks in the field, there’s outreach. Uh, any questions, anything we can do better?
[00:47:58] Uh, any way we can be stronger. Please don’t [00:48:00] hesitate to reach out. I don’t think I hear enough. Um, we really are committed doing the very best we. I appreciate it. I’ll link
[00:48:05]Bryan Fields: it up on the show. Thanks for taking the time. This was fun. Thank you.
