For better or worse, New York continues to operate “their way” while most can see the apparent problems, illegal storefronts, and the problems behind the scenes continuing to cause internal turmoil.
After speaking with Jesse Campoamor on our podcast, The Dime, and listening to Allan and Kaelan on Rena’s podcast, Cannabis Investing, I left with more questions than answers. (P.S. Subscribe to Rena’s podcast. She’s the best in the game.)
For example, what is the goal of the adult-use market?
If we polled everyone involved, what is an adult-use market’s #1 most important goal?
Is it to give those harmed by the war on drugs a first-mover advantage? Is it to create an on-ramp for legacy operators to the licensed market? Is it to minimize the gray market, which is exploding across the city today? Is it something else? Or is it a combination of everything?
NY has taken a stark approach to be not necessarily anti-MSO, but let’s be honest. Its current position of keeping MSO out will ultimately hurt the consumer. New York will have many problems, with a massive shortage of products over the next 12-18 months being a large one. Everyone agrees we will have a shortage, and yet we aren’t taking steps to solve it.
Let’s say, even for a short period, why not let them (MSO’s) cover the supply shortage even for the near term? Does that support all the parties involved in the legal market?
New York wants to allow those harmed by the war on drugs to go first to have a first-mover advantage.
But by slowly rolling out the legal market with limited dispensaries, the gray market will continue to thrive, minimizing said advantage.
Why would your everyday consumer travel across the city to wait in line to pay for a “meh”-quality product at a way higher price rather than going into their local gray market store?
Here’s the answer: Most Won’t.
In addition to the shortage of supply, limiting licenses is an issue. Limited licenses are what angers everyone in other states. A fair, unbiased, and accurate scoring system to determine who wins and who doesn’t is beyond me. Can this exist reasonably?
One aspect of NY that I have yet to see publicized is price gauging.
With limited vendors and limited supply and demand off the charts, will NY enforce pricing caps on the cost of products to protect the initial licenses? Shouldn’t the cultivators be allowed to set the price of their product based on what the market can bear? Or are we interested in artificially dictating all aspects of the supply chain?
“But Bryan, look what’s happening in Oklahoma.”
Oklahoma has tons of cannabis operators, which has quickly saturated the market, leading to the price plummeting. Sadly, this is a business, and participation trophies will not be given out. Operating in a highly regulated market with high start-up costs is an unfortunate reality. Starting a business in any industry has the potential for failure.
Stabilization will take time but limiting early participants and not allowing current operators to partake only hurts one party in the short term: the consumer. If you want to keep MSOs out because you don’t want them to control the market, do it in a way that the consumer doesn’t suffer at the expense of such.
Here are 3 easy ways to do this:
Disallow vertical.
Keep them from owning multiple dispensaries.
Open up licenses.
In the same attempt to help some, I am petrified that they have given them a false sense of reality.
Here’s Jesse’s quote which speaks to this:
“I think in the method of trying to protect some of the smaller guys, I think we might have inadvertently harmed them in the process. [——….] One of them had to sell 49% of their license to get out, to be operational.”
Operating in cannabis is extremely, extremely challenging. The current conditions will evolve as more stores open up, making these operating conditions more variable.
How you make prudent financial decisions with endless unknowns is beyond me.
How New York will determine fairly which 35 organizations deserve to go first seems nearly impossible to also avoid a massive lawsuit awaiting. New York is home to ~8.5 million people; it seems impossible that there will be no bias or self-selecting interest in being able to rank a wide range of individuals.
At the end of the day, the plan is nice in theory but littered with issues, and all of these are at the expense of the consumer.
The consumer should decide, just like the market should decide on pricing and stabilization of supply and demand.
If you have any questions or comments, I can be reached at [email protected]
Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.
The data analysis reveals that the pricing of hemp and cannabis products across the United States continues to exhibit a high degree of volatility on a month-over-month basis. It is imperative for operators and investors to closely monitor market trends and fluctuations in pricing, as these factors significantly impact regulations and the rate of adoption within the industry. As more states legalize cannabis, the industry faces a new set of challenges, as seen in New York. However, these challenges also present opportunities for companies and entrepreneurs to develop innovative solutions and shape the industry’s future.
Kellen Finney, Eighth Revolution
Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.
Why does the cannabis industry have this starch “us vs. them” mentality? Let’s clarify one main point: if you engage in illegal activities, it’s wrong. This applies whether you operate in one state or two. It’s ludicrous to instantly bucket companies that operate in multiple states as inherently wrong. Generalization is a problem, and that is the same here. If we were honest with ourselves, the lawmakers hired by their constituents to advocate on their behalf are the issue at hand. . Whether a large MSO or a single-state operator, everyone advocates for their self-interest. That’s how the world works. The sad reality is that the ones who control the world are the same ones who keep banking illegal. Shouldn’t we be mad at them?
Bryan Fields,Eighth Revolution
Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.
Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
The Benzinga capital conference is the premier gathering of cannabis investors, entrepreneurs, and operators. If you haven’t been, it’s different from other conferences. The event occurs in an intimate setting where all the industry’s biggest movers and shakers cross paths. Benzinga is rumored to be the origin of many of the cannabis industry’s mergers & acquisitions.
This week on The Dime, we host Elliot Lane, the VP of Events & Head of Benzinga Cannabis, to discuss:
Understanding how panels and topics get selected
Growth and potential of the psychedelics track
Will we see cannabis products at networking events?
Headlines & expectations for upcoming events
The next Benzinga Captial Conference is April 11-12 2023 in Miami Florida
About Benzinga:
CONNECT WITH THE BIGGEST NAMES IN CANNABIS. Meet the biggest cannabis industry players and make deals that will push the industry forward. Featuring live company presentations, insider panels, and unmatched access to networking, the Benzinga Cannabis Capital Conference is where cannabis executives and entrepreneurs meet. Join us live in Miami at the Fontainebleau Miami Beach. There’s no better place to connect with the people driving the global cannabis industry forward. Enjoy all the food, libations & come back with millions of dollars in deals.
[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields and with me as always his killing, Finny. And this week we’ve got a very special guest, Elliot Lane, VP of events and head of Bez Cannabis. Elliot, thanks for taking the time. How you
[00:00:13]Elliot Lane: doing today? I am having a blast already.
[00:00:16] Thanks for having me, guys. Really appreciate your time and letting me crash the party. You guys have some awesome guests, so it’s honestly just an honor to be a part of it. We’re excited
[00:00:24]Bryan Fields: to have you here, Kellen, how are you?
[00:00:26]Kellan Finney: Doing really well. Really excited to talk to Elliot and learn about Ben Zynga as much as we can and, uh, you know, just hanging out.
[00:00:32] How are you, Brian?
[00:00:33]Bryan Fields: I’m doing excited. I’m excited to talk to another East Coaster in Elliot. For the record, your location please.
[00:00:38]Elliot Lane: Lack of access complete with me in North Carolina. . I am in northeast part of Raleigh where they, they like Delta eight here, so, we’ll, we’ll just put that on the back burner in your mind.
[00:00:50] And, uh, you know, in 20 years I can buy some cannabis ,
[00:00:53]Bryan Fields: hopefully, hopefully 20 years. A lot has changed in the cannabis market. So, Elliot, far listeners are unruly about you. Can you give it a [00:01:00] little background about.
[00:01:01]Elliot Lane: Yeah, so I have been working at Benzinga for about four and a half years. Uh, in that time I started as just a regular sales guy.
[00:01:09] Um, you know, we were averaging probably about 2 million readers on our site back then. You know, a lot changed over Covid. Uh, to be quite frank with you, a lot of people used their stimulus money. To invest they and, you know, to look at how to grow it. And they came to our site to do that. And Covid was a bit of an indirect boon, uh, in, in our growth.
[00:01:32] The meme stock phase was a huge benefit to us. The crypto boom was a huge benefit to us and our readership. Uh, and we ended up, I think, Topping out at about 25 million readers, uh, in mid, uh, in I think in May, 2020. Um, so we exploded. Uh, at the start of Covid. We’ve obviously come back down to about, around about like 12 to 14 million, uh, average monthly readers.
[00:01:57] Um, so that’s a little bit about the backbone of [00:02:00] Beninger. Prior to that, , I was a professional actor, um, uh, on the musical theater, uh, circuit, uh, if you will, on the East Coast. So that was a lot of fun. Um, but you know, when you do contract work, it’s obviously quite unpredictable. So eventually I ended up working for Benzy.
[00:02:17] Really enjoyed talking to cannabis companies. Really enjoyed learning about new markets. I loved to learn things and I knew literally nothing about the economy, about stock markets, about, uh, cannabis, about psychedelics, about crypto. None of it before I started at Benzinga. So it was all trial by fire and, uh, one that was excited to take over.
[00:02:37] So I grew in Benga and ended up taking over the events vertical. And now as of this year, I’m the head of, uh, really all B2B activations within cannabis and psychedelics
[00:02:46]Bryan Fields: for. I love it. So what year was it that you first got started in cannabis for
[00:02:50]Elliot Lane: Benzinga? October 1st.
[00:02:52]Bryan Fields: 2018. 2018. So what type of education kind of hits you when you have to get started head first into an industry [00:03:00] you’ve never experienced before, where you’ve gotta talk to some of the bigger companies and learn the space fast?
[00:03:03] How, how do you do
[00:03:04]Elliot Lane: that? Well, first of all, you don’t know who’s big and who’s not , right? So I, one of my first calls with was with Truly, and I was. This is the same person as, you know, that consultant I just talked to. Like, to me, like there is no difference. Like I had to learn, you know, really what vendors do in the space versus plant touching companies versus payments companies, versus what an E R P is.
[00:03:28] Uh, you know, you have to learn all these different slogans and it takes a while. Uh, but really what you do is you learn what you do first and what value you provide, uh, , and then how you fit into the space and everything just kind of trickles down from. ,
[00:03:42]Bryan Fields: I think that’s really well said. And Benga as a whole isn’t just cannabis, right?
[00:03:46] Let’s let, we should start from a macro standpoint of Benzinga and then we can narrow down specifically on the focus of what it does for cannabis.
[00:03:51]Elliot Lane: Yeah, good point. Um, Benzinga, we cover all markets. You know, as I mentioned, we cover crypto and, you know, stock education. We have a data platform called [00:04:00] Benzinga Pro.
[00:04:00] If you invest in the stock market, uh, we provide a trading technology, basically suite of APIs where you can subscribe to that monthly. Get really, really quick and up-to-date alerts, uh, through these APIs you can obviously choose your own watch lists. I have about 20 different industry focused watch lists that I have on my pro account, but it’s very, very quick.
[00:04:23] So that’s kind of the, the more cu consumer, customer, retail, investor facing side of it. Uh, but our, our news covers everything. Uh, we cover Elon Musk. Very regularly, uh, , you know, to our detriment and his probably, uh, we cover President Biden, you know, and you know, we, we’ll cover a lot on, uh, the report that came out this morning.
[00:04:43] Uh, you can probably go on Bening and see that on the homepage. Uh, we’ll, you know, cannabis and FinTech are really the two pillars, uh, of, you know, market wise. Uh, if you wanna look at specific markets of what we covered. But when you think about how Benga became competitive, it was our willingness to cover markets [00:05:00] that are larger.
[00:05:01] Peers wouldn’t or didn’t care to yet. So you think about insider, you think about Bloomberg, Reuters, uh, Yahoo, finance. We are much larger into the space because of our willingness to cover it at a very high level and a very deep level. And, and that happened in Canvas, happened FinTech, it’s happening in psychedelics.
[00:05:21] Uh, and, and we are. I think the leader in financial coverage for the cannabis space, and that of course, you know, affects how much people have trust in you for the other industries as well. Why do
[00:05:32]Bryan Fields: you think that some
[00:05:33]Kellan Finney: of the bigger entities just chose not to even dive into cannabis at all?
[00:05:38]Elliot Lane: Didn’t. Well, I mean, I think it’s a mix that they didn’t need to
[00:05:41] Um, you know, when you’re at a young company, right? You, you have to figure out ways to compete. You have to do things that are a little bit taboo, uh, or unique or fun or creative, right? You can’t just be another Bloomberg because you’re not gonna beat Bloomberg at Bloomberg’s game. No, but you know, so Jason, if you have any sense.
[00:05:59][00:06:00] Our company, Jason Rasnick, is our c e o. He is as scrappy of a human being as he can get. And I use that word, uh, intentionally cuz it’s his favorite word, um, to use. But it, he started out of his parents’ basement. Our first customer, this is long before me, was TD Ameritrade, uh, to use our news and I think he called them like nine different times as different.
[00:06:24] To get in front of them. So he like called them as a woman one time. He, he called them as like different people until they finally listened to him and they’re like, okay, final, let’s take a meeting. Um, so I mean, that’s the type of personality that Jason brought to us. And it’s doing things differently.
[00:06:39] It’s doing things on a more, um, consumer and customer friendly level where anybody that emails us, I can guarantee you 99.9% we’re gonna. , I think there’s like a
[00:06:53]Bryan Fields: relentlessness. When you operate in cannabis, you have to be scrappy, and I think that’s story by Jason kind of sums up perfectly that even [00:07:00] though people forget sometimes that Benga is big, but they still have to play these different challenges because the the massive entities, they’re fighting Bloomberg, Ru Reuters, Yahoo, finance, all of those other entities don’t necessarily have to challenge ’em because they stick to their own domain.
[00:07:12] I think people kind of forget that even though Benga is. Their competing tasks are still in the same restrictions that cannabis face, that the other industry operates face as well.
[00:07:22]Elliot Lane: Absolutely. I mean, we, you know, advertising our cannabis event is a massive challenge, , right? Like, we, we can’t do it in the same channels as like a, an electric vehicle event, uh, or an auto event or, or anything of that nature.
[00:07:34] So we do face those challenges. I think, you know, saying Benzing is large, we don’t operate under that assumption. You know, we, we very much feel like a startup still, you know, and, and we obviously have a corporate structure that we have to work as because that’s what you have to do to mature and, and get larger and become a competitor.
[00:07:53] But, you know, we don’t assume we are there yet. And I think that’s why we continue to grow [00:08:00] is because we continue to innovate and we continue to work with people that push us to.
[00:08:04]Bryan Fields: So speaking on the conference, I’m excited to kind of dive into that. When setting up a location, are there other restrictions that surprise people or surprised yourself when you’re trying to book, quote unquote, a cannabis conference at one of
[00:08:16]Elliot Lane: these hotels?
[00:08:18] Yeah. Well, it helps also with who we are, right? We’re not a consumer event, you know, so it it, it does, and I think events in the cannabis space are all lumped into this term cannabis events, right? I mean, it seems obvious, but it must be said. We’re a very different event from a CannaCon. We’re very different event from a hall of.
[00:08:40] We’re, we’re not the same really at all. With the same with, with the one possible caveat of maybe we want a crossover with the operators. Right. You know, so I mean that, that is probably as similar as we get, but we work with a lot of these events as well. MJ Biz is one of our largest partners. . Um, you know, we work with [00:09:00] Lyft, we work with, uh, Arcview on a regular basis.
[00:09:02] We work with all of our, our peers and competitors in ways that people that would probably surprise people. Um, you know, we want to be partners to the cannabis space at large, but when putting on an event, to get back to your question, um, you know, it, it’s, it’s more about the networking, uh, and, and what, what the value we can provide with the amount of business cards and connections you make there.
[00:09:23] That’s what we are worried about. So that’s why we. Do everything we can to avoid holding it in a convention center. We want people to be at the hotel, to stay at the hotel. We want it to be literally 48, 72, however long hours it is of just nonstop networking from breakfast. You go down, you, you’re standing by, uh, the c e o of a tier three M mso, uh, or you know, next to you is the, the managing partner of, of cannabis for.
[00:09:53] Right. You know, so I mean these, that’s the networking that I get excited for is creating that really [00:10:00] intimate way of having a large event in a space that is, is not, uh, that, that is not overly large . I, I don’t know, sorry. I used large too many times there. It bother me. But you’re, you’re basically confining it to a space.
[00:10:16] Um, but you still have 3000 high level executives that you can network. Does
[00:10:21]Kellan Finney: the like state location factor in significantly in terms of like if, uh, they have a medical market or adult use market?
[00:10:29]Elliot Lane: We don’t, yeah, we won’t operate an event. I, I would say in a market that it doesn’t make sense. Like they’re not go, you know, as much as I push for it, they’re not gonna come to, to North Carolina.
[00:10:37] Happy event. .
[00:10:38]Bryan Fields: Come on, Jason. Say Raleigh .
[00:10:41]Elliot Lane: Yeah, I mean, if you guys wanna get together in Raleigh, we can do a little mini, uh, satellite event. I’m happy to host. Um, but with that being said, like Miami, it, it’s, it’s a little bit about where will people travel it, it’s a little bit about, you know, where is our audience?
[00:10:58] You know, and when you think of [00:11:00] the value we’re trying to provide at Benzinga, you know, is access to capital, access to partnerships that could allot in, in m and a deals. Uh, it could be debt capital, uh, it could be a brand meets an M s O at, at our event. And, you know, they’re all of a sudden in the air footprint.
[00:11:18] You know, those are the kinds of, of business deals that we want done at, at our event, and it happens at every event, and I think that’s really cool. But when you think about our audience, . We started it by investor presentations and having, uh, hundreds of investors show up. So I would say, Probably about 25 to 30% of our audience are institutional and accredited investors.
[00:11:40] And granted a lot of them are the original ones and the OGs that you all could probably list yourselves. Uh, but those are very important. I, I think to have there you should never take for granted the experience of, of those who have invested in cannabis, cuz they. Uh, I, I think some of the most valuable [00:12:00] opinions you can have about where we can take this next.
[00:12:02] But that being said, we’ll still have like a network of family offices. We’ll have, uh, people who, you know, recently retired and they wanna put some of their wealth into cannabis companies. I mean, it’s a vast array of investors. So when we think about where they are, it’s generally on the east coast. And that’s why we don’t really do California events.
[00:12:19] It’s really nothing to do with the California market. I would be thrilled to go to San Diego or, or Los Angeles. I mean, my God, if anybody wants to sponsor a trip for me there, I’ll be there in a heartbeat. But investors, at least the. The vast majority of them from the ones we hear from, I’ll qualify it that way, are on the East Coast.
[00:12:38] So we look at Miami as our flagship event. And then, uh, right now we’re, we’re pretty much sitting in Chicago for our fall event. So we’ll do two a year. Eventually it may end up as one, which would be Miami. Uh, but for now it’s the two events. A as we, we highlight multiple markets throughout the, throughout the US and the East.
[00:12:57]Bryan Fields: I wanna go back to what you said prior about the size of the event, because [00:13:00] you’re right, like it is large, but it feels so tiny and, and small. And I, I never really understood how that felt until the first time I attended the event in Chicago last time. And Kellen was like, how’s it like, and I was like, it is like networking on steroids.
[00:13:13] People are all in this small hall, and I’m being pulled and pushed and trying to grab this person. , I, I don’t know what to do. Like, I’m almost overwhelmed because I can’t be in all these places at once, and I, I hadn’t felt that small, small, like community feeling in a while, especially some of these other tennis men that are so large, right?
[00:13:30] Like at MJ biz, it is the two, two floors, the huge halls you’re walking for, for days it feels like you’re never gonna run into people, but here it feels like it’s so easily done. You can find the people you’re looking for. The, the, the type of people there are, it’s everyone you want to talk to, all the people you’re interested in, in learning about the type of companies that you might not have had enough exposure to.
[00:13:49] The, the, the questions you wanna ask them and learn about and get a direct response on are all there. And I give your team a ton of props for actually having an event where people show up at, because yeah, I think it’s probably harder said
[00:13:59]Elliot Lane: than [00:14:00] done. Well, that’s, that’s been the ultimate goal is. You know, we, we do, of course, we want people to party.
[00:14:05] We want people to have fun. We people to have an experience, right? Events are experiences at, at the end of the day, if you don’t put on an experience that people remember, they’re not gonna come back . I’m like, why would they, but I, if you know, if you’re on Miami Beach, right? You’re, you’re at the Fountain Blue, you have a cabana meeting with Emily Pia or, or Boris Jordan, right?
[00:14:27] I mean, that’s an experience that you, I mean, name me another event that, that does that on the. There really isn’t one. And that’s something that we pride ourselves in and I think, you know, not to, to disregard, you know, the, the value of who we are is the content, right? Is, is the education. And, you know, different events have different value props and, and I think it’s important to understand if I’m buying a ticket to an event, what is their audience?
[00:14:57] Like, what am I going there for? Uh, [00:15:00] and, and going prepared because if I go to, to MJ biz, I’m probably gonna have a different approach to that event than I will going to a biz event. Even though you have pretty much, uh, a lot of the same service providers and vendors are there, uh, a lot of the same MSOs are represented, albeit the C-Suites are probably not on the floor unless they’re speaking at MJ biz.
[00:15:21] But you know, it’s something where it’s still a very different e event approach, I think. Um, so I mean, with us it’s all it, it’s the content and I think that’s our value. The education is our value, uh, and we really take that to heart and make sure that the companies. That are leading the industry, both from a corporate standpoint, a social equity standpoint, a financial standpoint, a vendor standpoint.
[00:15:46] Those are the ones we have on stage. And then of course, we wanna challenge our brands to be represented as well. So we create room for them. Uh, and, and it’s a balance, right? You have to have people that draw tickets to the event that, that draw. Um, You know, [00:16:00] other members of the cannabis space of the event, but you also wanna be a partner to the industry at large.
[00:16:04] Mm-hmm. and, and create space, uh, for, for the next upcoming wave, uh, of leaders in this industry. So when
[00:16:12]Bryan Fields: you guys
[00:16:12]Kellan Finney: are producing that content, is it like a collaborative effort between like the speakers that you’re gonna have on, or is it kind of like, Hey, we’d love for you to speak on this topic. How does that kind of get formed?
[00:16:24]Elliot Lane: We are very controlling . Uh, we, we are a bad. Uh, date, uh, I’ll say, but in that sense, a lot of people, of course, you know, they speak at a lot of events, you know, they speak at a lot of smaller events and or even, you know, peer events to us and they get to, to build a panel. W we’re very different. You know, we, we, we listen to our audience.
[00:16:47] We’re very, you know, finger on the pulse, you know, for better or worse. And, you know, we. will Place every speaker on that agenda. And, you know, there are sometimes when you can fault us for, you know, [00:17:00] not having a diverse voice on that panel or not having a, a female voice on that panel. But, uh, if you look at the evolution of our agendas, we’re actively remedying that.
[00:17:12] Um, you know, and it’s something that we want to make sure the content flows. We want to make sure it makes sense. We want to make sure there are actual discussions on stage and not just preachy. Um, You know, agreements, like, yeah, you’re right. Yeah. You know, let, but we want to make sure, we want, we want people to actually like butt heads a little bit, you know, so that there’s actual education happening.
[00:17:34] Um, so we want to make sure that we are very, very in control of the content and where it goes and what people are listening to. I think that’s an under underappreciated
[00:17:42]Bryan Fields: aspect of the type of details to go into it, because it would be way easier just to select the speakers, you know, want to talk to each other, let ’em all go.
[00:17:49] But you. The information then would be kind of like the same, and it’s not like that. So how, how does that work? Is there a role playing that goes involved? Is that like a deeper understanding of personalities and interests and kind of [00:18:00] knowing the individuals that are gonna be presented? How do you do that
[00:18:03]Elliot Lane: mixture together?
[00:18:04] So there, this is where my wonderful colleague and co-host Javier Hase comes in , right? So we, we know all the major players. , um, in, in major players being your, your MSOs, the people who drive large revenues in this space, uh, they’re generally always there, but understanding who is making waves, uh, what topics are people looking for?
[00:18:28] People want to talk about cost cutting right now, right? You know, how is that going to be a theme at our April event? I mean, you gotta come and find out, but , right? right. But. You know, it’s, that’s the type of education we’re gonna have is, is brand discussions, right? We’re, we’re actively hunting down large, large brand representation that’s not cannabis centric.
[00:18:51] To come and talk about possible cannabis retail, um, synergies. Once cannabis is legal, right? So we are, we’re looking to [00:19:00] innovate our content every single event, and, and we’re looking to make sure that, um, we’re, you know, we’re touching on content that wants to be touched on, if that makes sense. Is there
[00:19:11]Bryan Fields: potential opportunity for expansion outside of the cannabis industry, hypothetically, if alcohol or big tobacco are interested in kind of being a part of these conversations to get more of a nuanced talk of what the future could look like from
[00:19:23]Elliot Lane: multiple.
[00:19:24] Absolutely. I mean, we, we have already been in discussion, uh, with them, uh, to participate in these dis in, in these conversations and, um, some positive talks, some not positive talks, right? Some people want to be a part of it. Others want to keep it arms length until. , everything is is legal in 50,000 years.
[00:19:44] Right. , I mean, is what it seems, right? Yeah. Right. But y you know, as, as for our events, I mean, we, we host events in multiple industries, so we’re always talking to people outside of cannabis. And if, you know, a lot of our vendors will participate in our crypto event, you know, [00:20:00] we have alternative investment sources as well.
[00:20:02] You know, like crowdfunding, uh, you know, if you’re a private company or a crowdfunding, you’re considering crowdfunding that that’s something that we. Host a ton of content and actually virtual events in, so, I mean, there’s always crossover there. How much crossover has
[00:20:16]Bryan Fields: there been from
[00:20:16]Kellan Finney: the psychedelic space with the cannabis space?
[00:20:18] Are you guys gonna just segment those off and kind of run a, a, an o, your own psychedelic track and keep ’em separate? Or are you guys gonna kind of let them still, uh, overlap, if you
[00:20:29]Bryan Fields: will?
[00:20:30]Elliot Lane: Psychedelics for us is not, you know, wanna say this without dissing the psychedelic space. Um, Psychedelics doesn’t have a big enough audience yet.
[00:20:43] It’s not that we want to combine the industries and you know, you could look at Wonderland and completely disagree with me, right? Like there is an audience for events. Absolutely. But we are a, a side, we are a sector of a psychedelics event. Right. And, and [00:21:00] how much money is flowing in that space right now?
[00:21:02] I mean, you had 2 billion and then it just. You know, for r and d and so, I mean, we will have hundreds of people come to our psychedelics track, but have a standalone event for that. Uh, it just hasn’t seemed like the right time for us yet. Uh, but we will have a full day of psychedelics content in Miami on April 13th.
[00:21:22] A good deal, uh, of the cannabis audience will stay for that day, but you’re looking at you. I spoke to a good partner of mine that’s a lender. Uh, and you know, he’s interested in lending to both spaces. Obviously he’s active in cannabis, but is exploring psychedelics. Um, same with law firms, recruitment firms, you know, accounting firms.
[00:21:41] Those vendors are all wanting to work in both spaces. But when you have investors, it’s more about education. , it’s more about, is this something I wanna dive into? I mean, it’s more biotech, right? It’s not, you know, it’s not hospitality unless you’re getting into a resort or clinic feel, in which case, okay, maybe that is something I wanna to [00:22:00] look at.
[00:22:00] But you know, we’ll, we’ll have investment opportunities there. But again, this is such an early side of psychedelics and where it will end up being, it’s highly focused on the education and content. Why do
[00:22:12]Bryan Fields: you think
[00:22:13]Kellan Finney: that psychedelics and cannabis kind have just been
[00:22:16]Bryan Fields: paired?
[00:22:18]Elliot Lane: like that. I think it’s people willing, I think , I think it’s people with an open mind.
[00:22:23] Honestly, I, I think it’s people that are already working in one emerging market that see, yeah, it’s risky af but you know, if I go into this other market, man, that’s actually maybe a little bit less risk. It’s more biotech, right? But like, if you’re investing in Pfizer or you know, a phase two, um, you know, clinical trial.
[00:22:45] like that, they’re, they don’t have a drug out yet that is just as risk. as investing in cannabis, right? I mean, that could go either way. You know, and, and every you’re, you’re holding on every press release that biotech releases, you know, [00:23:00] saying, oh, the data’s good. Oh, I’m gonna buy 10 more shares or a hundred more shares.
[00:23:03] Oh, the data’s bad crap. And then the, you know, that’s all they have to go on. And, and psychedelics has been that way for a while. But now you’re getting different sites, right? You’re getting clinics, you’re, you’re starting to get more wider acceptance to, uh, the, the ketamine. Um, you know, you’re, you’re getting.
[00:23:18] Resorts right in, in Latin America. Um, you know, so there it’s becoming more interesting and maybe a little bit more connected to cannabis, um, a little bit, but it’s, it’s taking a medical pathway and it’s unlikely that it will ever be recreational, at least from a lot of people we speak with. So connecting those two hip to hip, I think is a mistake.
[00:23:41] Um, at least in the sense of content. However, the people who want to learn about. Tend to be very similar. I
[00:23:51]Bryan Fields: think it’s smart having it be the final day cuz you can get a sense of people staying and understand if it continues to grow. Maybe it’s worth having a, a [00:24:00] separate track at a separate time and giving your team some got really good data insights onto the growth of the industry, specifically from the educational side and if that’s a good fit for Benzinga in the future.
[00:24:09] So slightly switching gears, one of the, the areas that I’ve heard about Benzinga conference is that I’m not raising capital. There’s no reason for me to. What would you say to that?
[00:24:19]Elliot Lane: Oh, um, so I, I would go back to who Bening is at, at, at our heart, right? And also, you know, I, I would look at your goals, right?
[00:24:28] Yeah. I mean, if you are looking for visibility, Or thought leadership. If you’re looking for brand recognition, I, if you’re looking for, uh, partners, you know, to, to help you audit your finances, you know, if you’re looking for, uh, equipment manufacturers, or some sort of, you know, hydroponics firm, um, , you know, if you’re looking for debt, um, if you’re, I mean, the list goes on.
[00:24:54] If you’re looking for media outside of Benzinga, you know, screw benzinga, you know, they’re too big. [00:25:00] Right. But like, we’ll have really cool podcasts there, like the dime, right? , you know, but like, I, I mean, there are so many reasons to attend events for. . I would, I would, our umbrella is b2b and it’s partnerships, networking.
[00:25:15] And, and yes, it is capital flow, but if you think that coming to an event is how you get capital, you’re skipping a hundred steps. Mm-hmm. , right? I, I mean, we, we offer a ton of networking. You can get media, you can meet people like Brian, you can meet people like Boris Jordan. You can meet, uh, people. like Ankur the, the CEO of C3 Industries, an up and coming, um, MSO that’s private in Michigan and in Oregon.
[00:25:44] In Missouri, right. You can meet a ton of these. Cool, um, kind of expansive retail operations, uh, or wholesale distribution. I mean, we’re gonna have leaf trade there. They’ve already committed. We’ll have Cronos group, uh, one of the largest LPs. So, I mean, if [00:26:00] you’re looking at international, uh, opportunities and we’re gonna have a German panel on an American panel, I, I’m, I hope that’s enough reasons to at least consider coming because you have to understand the event and what it is.
[00:26:16] And Benga, while we cover financial opportunities, not everybody there leaves with. That’s unrealistic and it’s not the case. But people do leave with contacts, people do leave with partnerships. Um, I know one major m and a deal that absolutely started at our conference. Um, and I’m not gonna say here cuz I will get in trouble with Jason
[00:26:41] That’s right. But, uh, so believe me or don’t believe me, but deals happen, capital flows. You know, products move to different shelves at our events even, you know? But it is a place where we are of the highest quality audience, and I will stick by that and go to the grave. It has nothing to do [00:27:00] with our competitors, but I do not know of a higher quality audience in cannabis events.
[00:27:04] I, I
[00:27:05]Bryan Fields: agree with you, and I think some of the conversations that we saw when we were there, Kell and I were speculating, but it’s fun to play that game of understanding like, Hey, those two guys are talking. Maybe there’s a potential partnership in the future. And then as you follow. The steps, you’re like probably has something to do with it, but in our mind we’re like, we saw it, we saw the origin of the initial conversation, go from there.
[00:27:24] So I wanna stay with some of the media that happens there. Obviously Mike Tyson has made tons of headlines with Benga. At first I thought maybe he was on the take and he was part of the marketing efforts. But then after a while, I think he’s just a big fan of Ben Zinga and it gets excited when he is coming there.
[00:27:38] is that part of the team? What’s the deal with Mike and always making headlines
[00:27:41]Elliot Lane: with Benga? Um, I’ll tell you this, I, you know, we’re, we, we love Chad Bronstein. We love Filo. Um, I, I love his entrepreneurialism. Uh, and obviously he has a direct, uh, connect for us with Mike Tyson and Rick Flair. And of course, there’s a lot of media [00:28:00] that people get from coming to our conferences.
[00:28:01] We are, you know, if you ask a PR agency who has the highest impression count, uh, for content coming out of, uh, you know, PR pitches, it, it’s. us by far. Right? So, I mean, these people come to us for brand visibility as well. Um, it’s not just us getting Mike Tyson and Woohoo, but you know, we, we want a diverse.
[00:28:25] Perspective, and yeah, Mike has a questionable record, but I mean, people want to hear from him. People want to understand what’s next. Why does he care so much about cannabis? What is up with those, you know, bitten ear gummies, dude, is that really the best brand to marketing play? I mean, have your opinions about it, but you’re probably going to come and listen.
[00:28:44] Right. Um, but that being said, it’s not all about that. It’s not all about, um, you know, just getting the, the quick and snappy headlines. We, you know, want Al Harrington there who supports, you know, local Michigan businesses. We want Calvin [00:29:00] Johnson, uh, there. And then I’m speci specifically. Speaking about celebrities, right.
[00:29:04] You know, but we want, like, you know, we’re, we’re constantly having conversations with people like Rosario Dawson, uh, you know, with with differing personalities. We, of course, you know, open invitation. Martha Stewart, if you’re listening to this podcast, uh, I know, uh, you know, it’s possible. Right? She’s a big fan of the dime.
[00:29:21] I’m saying. She should. She should be. She should be. You know, but like, be real Tommy Chung. Um, we want all. It’s not that, you know, we’re we’re carving time on our stage specifically for Mike Tyson because of one reason or. We want every perspective, um, that people want to hear from. And, and that is what Mike Tyson fits into.
[00:29:46] Uh, and he comes via connect out of somebody that I have a lot of respect for in Chad Bronstein and what he’s built at Filo over the course of like two and a half years. I mean, it’s incredible. Pretty
[00:29:56]Bryan Fields: wild. We, we just released our episode with Chad and, and we’re big fans of what they’re [00:30:00] building also.
[00:30:00] And the reason I ask is because we saw the headlines with the plane. We saw him smoking on Sage, which I still put top. Best thing I’ve ever seen at a conference in my entire life. I’ve never seen anything like that in my entire life. Was there blowback
[00:30:12]Elliot Lane: from, from that? I cannot, um, claim that that was something we planned, nor um, it, it wasn’t planned at all.
[00:30:21] But I cannot claim that we wanted that to happen . I can imagine. Um, but that being said, there wasn’t really a lot of blowback. Um, you know, I think, I think it, you. If it was anybody else, it wouldn’t be in your question. The cannabis industry would be like loving it. Right? Right. Um, you know, but it obvi, you know, bars, stool sports shared Rick Flair and Mike Tyson at our event, smoking a Joint together.
[00:30:44] Yeah, it looked awesome. Yeah, it was. I mean, it was awesome. Ab yet they didn’t give us credit, but whatever. Bitterness, bitterness saved for leather for later. But that being said, like, I mean, Mike Tyson is, is awesome. He’s cool. He, you know, he. . [00:31:00] A lot of people hate ’em too though. You know, it’s something that we as conference organizers have to take into account at least.
[00:31:07] Um, but it doesn’t mean that just because people are disliked doesn’t mean we’ll take them off our stage. Now. It does mean that, you know, we want to make sure that everybody’s represented. , everybody’s voices are heard, uh, and everybody has, you know, somebody there that they want to hear from. And we’re making sure we give the voice to the right people.
[00:31:27] Um, but as we grow, you know, these people are part of that story. . I think that’s really
[00:31:31]Bryan Fields: important. And one of the areas that I think is, is even more wilder is some of the quotes that Poor Shorten has made specifically about Big Tobacco. I was in this, the, the audience that day when he made the comment about how he thinks the cannabis centers should become big tobacco, and I think people were surprised to hear that, but I appreciated the honesty in his opinion.
[00:31:47] Right. I recognized that he, he’s saying something that Michael against the grain, but that’s his opinion. That’s how he sees things. And whether you like P or not, I think that’s an informative stance from someone. a, a big part of the industry going forward. So I guess from your [00:32:00] standpoint, how quickly does your team recognize that a quote like that goes viral?
[00:32:04]Elliot Lane: Pretty quickly. Uh, we also get a call from the PR agencies pretty quickly too. . Um, but I will say, I think for us it was actually the beverage comment. Yeah, sure. And MJ biz was the tobacco one, but, uh, the, sorry, I mean the beverage. No, it’s fine. I mean, we’re the same event. It’s fine. Come on, man. We’re all the same.
[00:32:23] Both, both
[00:32:23]Bryan Fields: times. I’ve been shocked. Every time he speaks I’m just like, oh
[00:32:26]Elliot Lane: my, I, you know, but like somebody that big, I mean, Yeah, that’s pr, right? Yeah.
[00:32:32]Bryan Fields: Yeah. 100%. It’s like, I didn’t even know he had a beverage company
[00:32:35]Elliot Lane: prior to that statement. Yeah, like it’s, it’s fully pr, you know, it’s, and you know, it makes it really hard on his PR team, but , yeah, I love it.
[00:32:47] I mean, he’s more than welcome to continue doing that all time. Like, I
[00:32:51]Bryan Fields: love it. Also, I think it’s pretty incredible because you get, you get something different and you get a piece of personality where it’s not like a scripted response, he’s saying, so, [00:33:00] that his PRT may or may not be happy with. It might have to do some damage control after, but at least you’re getting a true, a true stance on something for a reason or not.
[00:33:06] And I’m pretty sure his, his
[00:33:08]Elliot Lane: standpoints are pretty . Well, and your tweets throughout the event are a great example. Brian, you know, you, you posted that and I, you know, the retention on that tweet, if I remember correctly, was ridiculous.
[00:33:17]Bryan Fields: It was insane. And, and just kind of spiral that of control if we’re gonna be completely honest, because I was just like, oh my.
[00:33:24]Elliot Lane: I mean, you caught it. You you posted it, man. You may have broken the news. Well, we’ll say, we’ll say it was right here on the dime. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but, but if
[00:33:31]Bryan Fields: we’re just gonna be honest, like, I, I think it’s important that people hear those type of things because I was fortunate enough to be invited by your team down there, and hearing something like that is a staggering thing because mm-hmm.
[00:33:40] it goes against the grain. But it’s the type of information that I think is, is a little more contrarian, but also extremely valuable for people to hear as they recognize that the industry is wider and, and more challenging than they.
[00:33:52]Elliot Lane: Right. Yeah. It, it’s, it’s incredibly challenging and I mean, it, it brings up, you know, the fact that people just [00:34:00] innately dislike Boris for one reason or another.
[00:34:03] And it’s the same with Kim Rivers, you know, it’s the same with Charlie Bto. It’s probably the same with George Ar ar Arcos. Although I, I don’t really see the Hate Torres him, to be honest. Um, same with Ben Koler. Um, but it’s, it’s just this innate, um, Dislike. For, for that side of the industry. And I don’t think that has much to do with what he said.
[00:34:28] I think you could have posted that, you know, he picked his wedge walking off the stage and it would’ve been a similar response.
[00:34:34]Bryan Fields: People will lose it. Yeah. This year maybe I’ll do, uh, uh, another quote, but this’ll be something like that. We’ll see if you not the same sort of objection. , what about,
[00:34:42]Elliot Lane: what about the construction?
[00:34:43] Tag him please. Absolutely. There’s no
[00:34:45]Bryan Fields: doubt about that. I’m gonna have to edit that part out, so don’t know. It’s coming. , what about the, the post-event networking? I know we chatted about the fact that there was no cannabis products, and obviously I understand there’s, there’s limitations because you’re [00:35:00] not doing it at a benzinga based, uh, hotel you’re doing at a public place, and you can’t just be consuming products, whatever you want without a consumption license.
[00:35:07] So are there hopes in the future to have more partnerships where we can. event and have a consumption networking event like in a similarity.
[00:35:15]Elliot Lane: Is that a thought in the future? It is. Um, yes, would be the answer to your question. Uh, priority wise, I don’t know where it sits on the list, if I’m gonna be quite transparent with you.
[00:35:26] Um, you know, while I do think that anybody that is a c e o of a company and doesn’t use their own product, I, I have questions about, yeah. I, I mean, if we’re, if we’re real. Like, it’s why I, I, you know, when I started my podcast at Ben Zinga, I always ask like, what, what did you do before Benzinga? Or I’m sorry, before, what’d you do before you worked with me?
[00:35:47] What did you do before you worked for this company and led this company? And how has that played into your experience? And everybody has a different path, right? So I don’t. . I don’t f you know, fault legacy operators as CEOs. I don’t fault investment bankers [00:36:00] as CEOs, but what I do think you should understand is the quality of your own product and be real with yourself about it.
[00:36:07] and, I mean, nobody’s real public facing. It’s all, it’s all super high quality and better than everybody else’s, but you know it. For me, consumption has its place in this industry and industry events. That is what I’ll say, but it is not the focus of our event. No, and you should not , I mean, if you’re intoxicated while talking to this audience, we, we should probably chat cuz it’s probably not a, a, a wise move for you.
[00:36:38] But, you know, and, and it might, this might get me blow back or heat or fire, but like, you know, this is, these are people who can make you success. These are people who can take your business to a new level. You can take somebody else’s business to a new level at this event. And that’s the focus. And, and these after party networking, [00:37:00] it’s still networking, you know, it, it’s, it’s meant to be fun.
[00:37:03] It’s meant to everybody, you know, have loose, you know, be loose together, you know, and, and have an experience. But it, it’s still part of the event, right? So we cannot. . Um, you know, while, while, yes, it is taboo and I respect the fact that we have a bar at the event, right. That that is something that we do have.
[00:37:22] And, you know, I don’t, you know, there, there should be an opportunity for you to consume cannabis and not drink alcohol. Cuz that is a big thing for a lot of people. Um, you know, I think one person very outward about it is Brosy mad. Yeah. You know, she stopped drinking and she smokes. Right? So, With that.
[00:37:40] Like, you know, I think there we should have venues where we allow cannabis consumption. Um, but that being said, it’s something where A, we have to find the right venue. Uh, b it has to be big enough. Yeah. And in consumption lounges like, yeah, you can have a consumption lounge license, but how many people can you hold?
[00:37:58] And hotels don’t [00:38:00] have that license. We can’t just whip out a joint and endorse that at a hotel. We’ll, we’ll get, we’ll get shut down in a heartbeat by the fire marshal. So, I mean, it, it’s a difficult balance and it’s one that I respect if people want to be upset about, but it’s, I don’t foresee it being something that we can fix in the near future in the cities that we’ve chosen to have events in.
[00:38:24] And I don’t think it needs
[00:38:25]Bryan Fields: to be
[00:38:25]Kellan Finney: fixed. I mean, if you think of like, you’re in Miami. It’s gonna be nice weather. Someone can just go outside right into a normal smoking section and make it even more de-stigmatized, right?
[00:38:34]Bryan Fields: Mm-hmm. .
[00:38:35]Elliot Lane: Yeah, I mean, I’m, I can’t endorse that, but like, I, I totally
[00:38:41]Bryan Fields: I think it’s important to clarify, right? It’s not like your team is choosing not to, it’s just not a path that’s currently available. Given in the future time, maybe that’s a consideration. And I think sometimes people just assume because it’s cannabis and spina, you know, they can do whatever they want, but turns out.
[00:38:56] Your team also has to follow the rules and challenges yet can [00:39:00] cannabis
[00:39:00]Elliot Lane: has stigmas? And listen, if you guys want a nightmare job, try working with hotel vendors. like I, I can’t tell you how frustrating they are. Like, and how unresponsive they are. , like, at large, because the fountain blue doesn’t need to be responsive.
[00:39:18] It’s the fountain blue. Right, right. You know, that’s where the rat pack stayed. They’re like, presidency stayed. Do you know who we are? And you’re like, I do that. Exactly. Yeah. It’s like, I, I, I wanna know, can I do this? Like, I wanna know like, yeah, that’s available. But you know, in, in Miami, like there’s no opportunity for.
[00:39:33] um, consumption lounge right now in Chicago? I would imagine there is, but maybe it’s more of a private networking event. But then again, you know, we, we still have, we still wanna have that after hours reception, that after hours party. Um, you know, and it, it’s either alcohol or, or nothing for a lot of venues that we can find.
[00:39:56] how
[00:39:56]Bryan Fields: does your team tell after the event that a certain topic, a [00:40:00] certain speaker, resonated really well with the audience to know, to double down in those areas in the future?
[00:40:07]Elliot Lane: Um, , there’s different ways, right? Um, he is social, uh, I mean social retention, right? I, I mean, love him or hate them. It’s the fourth time I’ve said that on this podcast. But people want to hear from tier one MSOs. People want to criticize. . People wanna, people want to be with them and partner with them, but people want to hear from them either way.
[00:40:28] It, it’s the same way with politicians, it’s the same way with lobbyists. It’s the, it’s the same with celebrities when it comes to, to everybody else. It, it’s obviously way more dependent on the topic. Um, but you know, we, you know, that’s where our news desk comes into play. You know, we have our finger on the pulse in terms of what’s happening in the industry, like very few others.
[00:40:50] Uh, and it’s where. You know, any earned content, it really, and we, we see the page views, we see the clicks, you know, we see what people are looking [00:41:00] at. Uh, and that obviously is a huge, uh, advantage.
[00:41:04]Bryan Fields: What is a factor statistic that would surprise the industry about setting up a, a, a conference
[00:41:09]Elliot Lane: or an event Hmm.
[00:41:14] That would surprise the industry? Surprise or shock?
[00:41:20] That’s a good question. That would shock the industry. Well,
[00:41:30] Benzinga is a,
[00:41:36] benzinga is severely understaffed. , uh, well, well that’s more of a personal note, but, uh, again, you’d think we’re, we’re as big as everybody else, but we’re a team of like 10, 10 to 12 people. Wow. That put these events. .
[00:41:51]Bryan Fields: That’s incredible. That is,
[00:41:53]Elliot Lane: that is so it, yeah. So I mean, well, we obviously could grow, um, but you know, we’re [00:42:00] affected by everything as everybody else is.
[00:42:03] We actually were acquired in October of 2021. Um, you know, so everything we do is, is very, uh, intentional, um, and very measure. . So all that is, you know, in terms of what would shock people about Benzinga is it’s, it, it’s a very close-knit, tight team that has figured out a process with the help of others, such as our, um, acquirers at Beringer Capital.
[00:42:30] Um, you know, but outside of that, putting on an event, you almost have to get really good at. . I don’t know how to say lying, but, uh, you know, negotiations with vendors are, it’s a game. You know? It’s a game and you always have to play o o on the edge, I will say. And that’s not gonna shock anybody. That’s a, that’s not as good of a good one.
[00:42:57] But, um, it, it’s, [00:43:00] it’s, it’s all under promise, overdeliver, you know, when you talk to companies, but when you’re talking to vendors, it’s, oh no, we’re only gonna have 800. , right? And then 2000 show up and you’re like, well, it’s fine. Right? , you know, but regardless, you know, I don’t think they’re listening to this podcast, but it’s, um, it, it’s, it’s a tough balance, you know, to, to walk between putting on an event and obviously running a business.
[00:43:27] And I think that is what people don’t want to hear from me right now, but I will say is events are a business. and events cost a lot of money. Yeah. And people want to participate at a free level consistently. And I respect that. I respect the knowledge that people bring, uh, and the, the presence, you know, that they affect people’s presences that they bring.
[00:43:51] But if we’re not spending at least a million dollars on this event, you’re not gonna have a good time. And, you know, we have to make. [00:44:00] Right. Or we can’t do this in Chicago or ever again. So, you know, with that being said, I think people have this, you know, this kind of thought where this is cannabis, they should be offering this for free.
[00:44:12] You know, they should be doing this for free, but that’s not reality. , you know, and we live in a capitalistic society. We have to pay for things. Uh, and you know, running a business in events is a, is a high cost business. So that is, I guess one thing that, you know, a lot of people will kind of scoff at me at , you know, and probably not want to hear.
[00:44:37] Um, but. It’s, it’s, it’s the reality unfortunately, and we, we do have social equity initiatives. We do have ways for people to attend for free and people to have access for free. Uh, and we want to continue to have stage time for free. And of course, you know, not have people, you know, pay for everything at our events, right?
[00:44:55] Um, you know, but everybody wants it for free [00:45:00] in this industry. Literally everybody. And it’s just not it. A lot of people are disappointed. in my response, unfortunately. So it it is what it is. It’s honest, and I, and I appreciate
[00:45:15]Bryan Fields: you for being transparent about that because you’re right. I’m sure a lot of people are hearing that or wondering why they can’t get an exception.
[00:45:20] And, um, it’s just, it’s just the reality of it. And the transparency is probably the best part about it is because people can at least hear that and understand that it is what it is. It’s not personal, it’s business and decisions
[00:45:30]Elliot Lane: have to be. Yeah, it really isn’t personal. Like if I could give you all stage time and still come away with margin, believe me, uh, I’d be happy to, but I’ll ask.
[00:45:42] My c e o would not be happy with me .
[00:45:46]Bryan Fields: 20 years from now, we’ll look back and say, that was barbaric. I can’t believe we did that in the cannabis industry. What is.
[00:45:53]Elliot Lane: Yeah, I mean, you’re talking just about literally everything in this industry. So , , I don’t think that’s [00:46:00] event centric.
[00:46:00]Bryan Fields: No, no. When you started your journey in the cannabis space, what did you get?
[00:46:04] Right. And most importantly, what did you get
[00:46:06] wrong?
[00:46:12]Elliot Lane: I think, um, cannabis is, is people who wanted something new. You know, they, they wanted a new journey. And for me, It’s all about relationships, it’s all about building, um, value for people, you know? And I just got off something that basically was like, you gotta pay me for value. Right? But if you don’t offer something in return and you don’t support people in return, then it’s not a partnership.
[00:46:39] Right? And, and that’s the beauty of what beninger is, is we can offer visibility and earned media. We can offer, um, you know, awareness. . And that’s something that I love doing for my partners. And I wish I had done it sooner. Uh, you know, I think it would’ve been good sooner. But something that I realized early on was I can offer a lot of [00:47:00] value to people, uh, with, with the power of Benga behind me and the power of our cannabis brand.
[00:47:06] Uh, and that’s something that I feel has actually helped me succeed in growing my network. And Ben Zinger’s network in cannabis is, Taking, um, what we do on an earned level and basically saying, I got you. Let me give you some visibility. Let me give you some awareness on this press release. Uh, and that’s something that, you know, if you reach out to me, like I’m more than happy to do.
[00:47:29] Is, is help people out, get visibility, get awareness, you know, do, do an interview with me on the podcast, like we do it twice a week. Uh, it’s, it’s a ton of time, but it’s so much fun. Uh, and that’s something that, you know, like if I can give you earned media, I will. I absolutely will. So that’s something that I’m proud of, like that I think we’re a good partner, uh, to this space.
[00:47:51] When it comes to visibility, uh, one thing that I wished I had done sooner, Was , [00:48:00] I get more involved and, and be more of a partner to this industry. Earlier, granted, I was still learning, right? I didn’t really know what that meant. Uh, when I first, you know, during the first year, maybe even two years that I was at Benzinga, um, which I probably shouldn’t have admitted that, but you know, it’s for me.
[00:48:21] You can’t be in this industry and understand what people want to talk about, hear about what people need from you unless you are actively participating, and that’s something I didn’t do soon enough. When we do
[00:48:35]Bryan Fields: predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson, learn to pass onto the next generation, what
[00:48:41]Elliot Lane: would it be?
[00:48:48] Not, you should never , never trust Washington, DC Um, a lot of people should hear that. . Uh, here’s, uh, uh, diversify, uh, you know, we’ll [00:49:00] take it back to the financial side. Um, and this isn’t necessarily right for the next generation of Benzing, and this is for everybody that looks at cannabis as, uh, an opportunity protect.
[00:49:13] don’t, don’t give everything to this industry. You know, a lot of people have, and I am not discrediting them for. I’m not disrespecting them for that. I, you know, a lot of people built this industry off their blood, sweat and tears, and that should be respected. Um, but when it comes to putting your money into this space, it’s highly volatile.
[00:49:33] Uh, and protect yourself, um, whether you’re starting a business or you know, investing in one. So that would be my thought. You should always diversify. But there’s a lot of people, you know, that I’m sure Brian, you see on Twitter, Kelly, you see uc on Twitter. They, they, it’s all in MSOs. Right. And, and it just doesn’t, it, it’s, it doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense.
[00:49:59] Well [00:50:00] said. All right. Prediction
[00:50:00]Bryan Fields: time, the April event is coming. Elliot, what topics or main takeaways do you predict will be the focus or the main idea for the conference?
[00:50:09]Elliot Lane: Hmm. We’re gonna have a few different tracks. So finance, operations and brands are all gonna be touched on in finance. You’re gonna have a lot of people saying the same stuff, right, that they’ve been saying for a while, but it needs to be heard.
[00:50:28] But I think this year, you know, weather or not, it’s happening. By the time we get to the conference, you’re gonna have people talking about receivership. You’re gonna have people talking about bankruptcy and seizing assets, but you’re also gonna be talking about the same thing of. is the only thing that is flowing right now.
[00:50:47] But, you know, so I, I think that’s a part of pretty much every conversation. But when, when looking at maybe what the operators are talking about, it’ll be cost cutting. So it’s really about balance sheets, about how people are being [00:51:00] flexible with their balance sheets, about how much cash flow they, they have.
[00:51:04] Uh, I feel like that and how they build a cashflow positive business is gonna be the through line of this. and how to do it successfully is how we’re gonna, is with the content we’re gonna try and have for those operators when it comes to operations. I mean, we’ll have cool, uh, topics like the hell is crypto gonna be in in payments for this industry?
[00:51:24] Is that still a thing? Right. Um, you know, we’ll have, you know, interesting, uh, conversations with people like Metric and headset, right? What, you know, data analytics and ai, right? We want innovations to be a centric part of this. And then brands. You know, there’s been predictions. This is the year four brands.
[00:51:44] This is the prediction, the, the prediction where, um, you know, vertically integrated companies are seen as a little bit less valuable and, and brands are seen as a little bit more, I don’t see that from a capital flow perspective, but from a [00:52:00] scalable business perspective, that is possible. So, you know, if this is the year for brands, you know, how do we get.
[00:52:08] And, and how do brands participate in this industry at a more successful level, in a more on par level as the, as the vertically integrated operators going. You wanna take a
[00:52:19]Bryan Fields: swing? Uh,
[00:52:21]Kellan Finney: what do I think is going to be the main topic or takeaway from Benca in April? Um, I’m gonna go with a wild card here, honestly, , um, my wild card is, I think that, The conversation is gonna be how did, how come New York took so long to go wreck and still not be a functional, uh, market, right?
[00:52:44] Like they learned from California and all these other states that were, uh, that did it before them and then they still. Took all that time and there’s still gonna be a dumpster fire .
[00:52:56]Bryan Fields: Whoa.
[00:52:56]Elliot Lane: That’s the west coast in him talking. Wow. Isn’t Brian? Wow. [00:53:00]
[00:53:00]Kellan Finney: I told you I was gonna take a wild card swing, but I think that it’s gonna dominate a lot of the conversations because New York is gonna be an epicenter for brands globally, right?
[00:53:10] Uh, it’s just how New York City is, and Manhattan, that whole vibe
[00:53:13]Bryan Fields: and so, They’re gonna see all of these
[00:53:16]Kellan Finney: finance individuals are gonna see like, oh wow, like New York was supposed to be this great industry. Right? And they still are gonna fumble the ball, in my opinion. And I think that’s gonna be a huge topic in the conversa in from a financial perspective, right.
[00:53:31] what do you think? Brian? You’re gonna off
[00:53:32]Bryan Fields: my first prediction. First off, . Neither Kellen nor I have seen any of the agenda for Benga. Second. That feels like just a personal shot is what you just took, right? , like I, it’s like that has nothing to do with Benga.
[00:53:43]Elliot Lane: You’re like, no, we’re, we’re really
[00:53:44]Bryan Fields: locking down.
[00:53:45] This is New York, Kate. And second, it’s not a dumpster fire. Right? It’s fair to call it different. And it’s fair to say that they’re doing things a little slower. Let’s reserve that type of judgment for let’s say six months from now. Then you can kind of say the mean things you’d like to say, and I’ll likely [00:54:00] agree, but until then I’ll reserve my judgment.
[00:54:02] Um, in my opinion, I, I’m gonna kind of piggyback off what Ellie has said. I think a lot of what you’ll hear is operational efficiencies, and I think that’s gonna mean a lot of different things to different people. But from my thought process, what that means is that companies, instead of spending the money to grow at all costs will start refining their operations, start adding in opportunities to really lock down those margins and understand how to make those margins.
[00:54:24] And I think one of the areas, in my opinion, that kind of got overlooked or in the earlier days or in the last couple years is it’s just growth at all costs. And it, whatever the margin is after we produce the products is really what we wanna do. And I think we have to really start locking in these numbers to have some sort of consistency.
[00:54:38] Because when you have really locked in, , you understand how to make better decisions. And when you do that, you can let go and jets send, you know, bad assets, but also you can double down on the areas that are really working. And I think in my opinion, operational efficiencies will be a common, common theme.
[00:54:54] And it’s just a matter of what it means to certain people. And I’m hoping that it means a lot of sensors. [00:55:00]
[00:55:01]Elliot Lane: good content, right? Brian?
[00:55:02]Bryan Fields: I mean, I’m excited, Elliot. So for our listeners, they wanna get in touch, they want to attend. Where can they.
[00:55:09]Elliot Lane: All right, so, uh, uh, a few plugs, if you don’t mind. What, uh, bz bz cannabis.com.
[00:55:16] That’s our event website. You can check out our past agendas, um, you know, see who we’ve had there before. I think you’ll see a really strong lineup. , um, you, you can check out what we’re doing so far in this one. The agenda for this one should be up in, in the next couple weeks. Uh, so keep an eye on that.
[00:55:32] But we do have cool companies, like, as I said, Kronos Group. Um, we’re gonna have cool up and comers like, uh, the CEOs of grn. Um, you know, so it’s, it’s a wide array of executives and participants in this industry. Um, bening.com/cannabis for all of our cannabis news. Um, and then just hit Bening, a cannabis.
[00:55:52] It’s our podcast and we’d love to have you there. And then ideally we get Brian and Kellen there, uh, to, you know, chat more about the dime and you’re all’s [00:56:00] perspective of the industry. But, uh, that is, you know, where we talk to industry executives. So really those three places are all you need to remember for us, uh, and.
[00:56:10] We, we’d love to hear from everybody. So Elliot Lane, e l l i o t l a n e, beninger.com. Always open for emails, always open to connect. Uh, and you know, hopefully we can be a benefit to everybody from mom and pop shop in Oregon to, um, multi nation. C, b, d play, I mean, anywhere in between. It doesn’t matter to us.
[00:56:30] We want to work with you, uh, if, you know, if it makes sense and if we can. Um, but you know, we are not just some giant corporate shill, , you know, we, we care about the industry at large and we want to give voice to everybody we can. Awesome.
[00:56:46]Bryan Fields: We’ll link those up in the show notes. Thanks for taking the time.
[00:56:48] This was a lot.
[00:56:49]Elliot Lane: This was a blast. Thank you guys for giving us, you, giving me the time and the visibility on Ben Zinga and you know, hopefully we can have more of these conversations going forward. I’m looking forward to
Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
Fyllo Founder Chad Bronstein is breaking down barriers and bridging the gap between cannabis and the outside world. Leveraging his Adtech background, he’s quickly built Fyllo into a juggernaut.
Chad is also the Chairman of Carma Holding, revolutionizing celebrity partnerships with Mike Tyson and Ric Flair. This week on The Dime, we discuss.
Building Fyllo
Retail connected media
Mike Tyson, Ric Flair, and who may be next?
Celebrity Partnerships
and so much more
About Chad Bronstein:
Named as one of both AdAge’s 40 Under 40 and Crain’s 40 under 40 for 2021, Bronstein built his marketing and tech empire on the simple foundation of spotting opportunities that others overlooked: Bronstein founded Fyllo in 2019 in response to the myriad compliance challenges faced by major cannabis operators– and, under his leadership, Fyllo has transformed marketing technology for highly regulated industries, allowing the most ambitious cannabis, CBD, and consumer brands to overcome the complexities of compliance at scale.
About Fyllo:
Fyllo is on a mission to accelerate the economies of tomorrow. Fyllo’s marketing and regulatory solutions provide the tools, data and integrations needed to drive new growth with speed and scale. Powered by a leading data ecosystem and regulatory database, Fyllo is trusted by Fortune 500 companies and emerging brands to stay competitive and compliant.
About Tyson 2.0
TYSON 2.0 is a premier cannabis company formed with legendary boxer, entrepreneur and icon Mike Tyson. The company’s mission is to produce innovative, high-quality cannabis products known for purity, precision, and wide accessibility. Providing consumers an outstanding selection of products, TYSON 2.0 is an extraordinary balance of premium and affordable, full-spectrum cannabis flower, concentrates, and consumables available at retailers nationwide.
[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields, and with me as always is Ke finning. This week we’ve got a very special guest, Chad Bronstein, founder and c e O of Philo, and president of Tyson 2.0. Chad, thanks for taking the time. How you doing today? I’m good. How are you guys?
[00:00:15] I’m doing well, Kellen. How are you doing?
[00:00:17]Kellan Finney: I’m doing really well. Excited to talk to Chad and, uh, learn more about
[00:00:20]Bryan Fields: these companies. How are you Brian? I’m doing good. So Chad, we got a little east coast, west coast battle . So, uh, for the record, where would you put yourself on the map?
[00:00:29]Chad Bronstein: Uh, well I would say I’m Aura in the Midwest, so I’m gonna have to go East Coast.
[00:00:33] There it is. Kalin
[00:00:34]Bryan Fields: another one for it. I know, I
[00:00:35]Kellan Finney: was, I was trying to avoid the topic. Yeah, I just, uh, gleamed over it so quick. .
[00:00:39]Bryan Fields: That’s fair. That’s fair. So Chad, for our listeners are unfriendly about you. Can you give a little background about.
[00:00:44]Chad Bronstein: Yeah. So, uh, you know, come from a long line of advertising marketing, technology background, uh, married, uh, met my wife when I was 22, I think when I first went to Chicago.
[00:00:56] Um, for my first advertising job. I have a, a son [00:01:00] that’s six years old. Um, and, uh, yeah, you know, from Ohio, like we just discussed and, uh, went to Miami, Ohio and, um, you know, it’s a quick background, just a serial entrepreneur. I’ve been doing, you know, figuring out ways to make money since I was 11 years old, but not for the money side, just for the, you know, the pure, you know, entrepreneur side of it.
[00:01:19] I believe it. So
[00:01:19]Bryan Fields: what, what kind of drew you into cannabis?
[00:01:22]Chad Bronstein: It’s funny. So I was never, I never really smoked weed, to be frank. Like I didn’t, I was always into like, just so focused on sports when I was younger and then to college, but I never really got into it. Um, but we, when I was running, uh, a mobi, which was at the time, you know, we were on my singtel, so, you know, you weren’t really able to touch like a Juul or a cannabis.
[00:01:43] And cannabis was becoming really large scale. And I, at that point, I. Eight years in, you know, running a large team, but kind of lost a passion of, you know, I don’t wanna work in a corporate, uh, you know, culture anymore. I, before we got bought, it was like very much, you know, [00:02:00] the culture. We liked entrepreneur.
[00:02:01] And then as you grow, no matter what company you’re at, you start to get more corporate. And so I had to make a decision, do I wanna go at that time, run another company? Or do I wanna build my own? And I also wanted to try something different. I needed to like, you know, get my juices going. And so I’m a big, like, underdog challenge kind of guy.
[00:02:20] And I, we were getting a lot of, um, outreach about cannabis. I think the first cannabis company, which was a CBD, was Charlotte’s Web that reached out back in the day, um, or this is like five and a half years ago. And so I was like, you know, what, what can we do here that, uh, is unique in this space to bring some maturity to.
[00:02:38] And so I went off on a, uh, reached out to Aristotle. My, one of my co-founders, Eric Shawney, one of my co-founders, some people that don’t have co-founder title, but that were early on, like Conrad, our C M O, Nicole Cosby, who was the chief legal officer. Um, and some other people, and I was like, guys, if I start this company, will you join?
[00:02:58] It was kind of like the field of dreams like [00:03:00] Kevin cost. If I build, will you come? And so, uh, and um, you know, I, you know, I also, we were all making good money, so I had to, you know, I had to make, I had to go out and raise money, at least for not me, but for the other people to de-risk. The opportunity. And so I went out and put together a deck racing capital.
[00:03:17] Um, and that’s how I jumped into the space. It was a, you know, when you jumped in, what we jumped in with what we are today is two different things. But, um, we just started listening to what was needed, I
[00:03:28]Bryan Fields: believe. Yeah. So you come from a
[00:03:30]Kellan Finney: successful, uh,
[00:03:32]Bryan Fields: Background, I mean, outside the cannabis industry, was
[00:03:35]Kellan Finney: there any hesitations and what was that conversation like with, uh, your wife and, I mean, you had a kid too, you mentioned,
[00:03:40]Chad Bronstein: so that’s, what was that transition like?
[00:03:42] That’s so a great question. I wouldn’t have done that without her blessing because, um, I remember this day I was sitting at the kitchen table with my wife, um, my son was young at the time, uh, and I’m like, uh, I want to go start a canvas company. Um, she laughed at [00:04:00] me not because of the canvas fight, cuz her, you know, her family partakes quite a bit.
[00:04:03] Uh, so what, she was laughing cuz I was jumping into cannabis because I never, you know, I’d like, oh no, you know that the person’s a stoner needs to stop smoking so much. Right. and, and then when I jumped in, and then, so she said, you should go do it. Like she wanted to see me at the end of the day, like when you’re successful, as you guys know, like whether I succeeded or not, I could jump.
[00:04:24] I had a fallback. So it was a, it was a good opportunity for me to do that. And, um, honestly, it like changed. It changed for me. I’ve had the most fun. I wouldn’t be, we won’t be talking. Tyson 2.0 or field anything. Cause I didn’t do this. Um, and my whole vision was, let’s go destigmatize it. Because I was a part of that stigma in the sense of thinking, that mentality when I jumped in, I learned so much about all the effects and all the people that are utilizing this for so many more things than just, um, leisure.
[00:04:57] Yeah, it’s,
[00:04:58]Bryan Fields: it’s really kind of eyeopening and I think coming [00:05:00] from an entrepreneurial background really helps in this type of space where you’re just kind of layered with different challenges and obstacles. And one of the, the projects I wanna talk about first is Tyson 2.0, obviously Mike Tyson’s, big name behind that.
[00:05:11] How did that start and like when that first conversation’s happening with you and, and like, take us through, you know, what you’re feeling and what those early thoughts were on putting something.
[00:05:19]Chad Bronstein: So it started, I won’t be at talking about Tyson 2.0, it wasn’t for Philo, right? So, as you guys know, we built a pretty, you know, we came in strong in this industry and we were, and it was like constant promoting, just making sure that, you know, we were a big name and that we had the opportunity to race, capitalize other things.
[00:05:36] So, uh, Philo, I gotta tell you the story. So Filo. Obviously built the name for us in the space. Then on LinkedIn, this guy Daniel Carillo, who’s a two time Stanley Cup hockey player, reached out to me. I, I don’t know anything about hockey. We talked about sports earlier, guys, and we were talking about football and basketball, but we, we didn’t bring up hockey, but I didn’t know shit about hockey.
[00:05:57] So I was like, who the hell is this guy? Right? [00:06:00] Uh, and so then I looked at his, um, I looked at his link to, said, he sent me on YouTube about, uh, um, his concussions and stuff like that. And so, uh, that’s how I got. He reached out and then he lived 20 minutes down the street. So he came to my house. Um, and then I helped, you know, we, psychedelics was a very tough industry too, but we were sitting in this office and I’m doing the podcast with you and we were just like, I was like, we gotta get to Mike Tyson because if we get to Mike Tyson, he can help us with his voice.
[00:06:26] Cause he talks about five M E O D M T and how it saves his life, saved his life. So we did that. Um, I met, we manifested it. We got to Mike through his brother-in-law, zine. And there was a guy that worked for Filo named Brian Spears, who’s Britney Spear’s brother that actually connected us to, uh, him. And then, uh, yeah, so then he asked me to look at some cannabis stuff.
[00:06:49] And, um, that’s how we looked at something. I’m not gonna talk about the old, uh, regime, but I could talk about what we did and cause of filo my relationships with [00:07:00] Columbia Care at the time. I reached out to this guy, Jesse Shannon, who’s the Chief Growth Officer of Columbia Care, one of my close friends, and I said, Jess, and I put Mike on the call.
[00:07:07] I said, Jesse, if we start Tyson 2.0, will you work with us and give us national cultivation? And that was the start.
[00:07:15]Bryan Fields: I mean, it’s a bold move. And I guess getting Mike on board, was that an easy thing? Was that a harder thing?
[00:07:21]Chad Bronstein: You know, I build a lot of trust with Mike, his wife, Kiki and Azim. That’s like the, that’s like the team of, uh, and you know, they’re very, they’re really good people and it’s all about trust.
[00:07:31] Um, and so we build good trust. And so, um, I was able to, uh, I was able to, Show them that what, how it could be successful. Because the, the key is like, as we’ve seen in a lot of celebrity brands in this space, they don’t do well. And I think there’s, you know, we’ve kind of proven the model, which the model is, is like you gotta have national scale, you’re not gonna, and the, the biggest problem in this space is we also know is cultivation product, right?
[00:07:56] So, You can’t really scale in this industry unless you [00:08:00] have national scale. So they saw the roadmap. We went with Jesse, and then we signed a partnership with Jesse, and that was our first in Columbia Care, and that was our first partnership in the space to really launch the company.
[00:08:12]Kellan Finney: How much, uh, fuel does it add to the fire when you have someone like Mike Tyson who’s actually benefiting from the product?
[00:08:19]Chad Bronstein: It’s huge. I mean, I would say the fuel in the fire is not about the celebrity. Um, it’s about Mike Tyson’s, obviously name, but it’s also about Mike Tyson’s work ethic. Right. There’s a big difference between, you know, I’m not gonna name other celebrities, but let’s just talk about what it is. Like Mike goes everywhere.
[00:08:36] If Mike, Mike and, and also Rick Flair, but these guys, like, they, you say, let’s go to Idaho at 6:00 AM they’re gonna get on the plane and, and they’re punctual like they’re just, you know, Mike and Rick are just like us. They’re hustlers, they’re entrepreneurs. You know, they’re not, they don’t, they want to be a part of it and then that’s why it’s successful.
[00:08:54] The, the licensing someone’s name in the space, it doesn’t work like, well, you get one, [00:09:00] you get one social media post and one thing, and you expect it to be successful. No way. And also back to your question earlier is like Mike knows weed. He knows what he is smoking. He knows how it helps him, and so he can, he helps with products and he knows that it’s gonna be, you know, if you smoke Mike’s weed, you know it’s gonna be good stuff.
[00:09:19] That’s
[00:09:20]Bryan Fields: such a critical aspect, right? Because a hundred percent agree. We’ve seen other influencers come in and it just hasn’t picked up the type of attraction. But with what you’re building with Tyson is the name is everywhere and he’s constantly pushing the product. Obviously he’s an incredible marketer cuz we’ve seen some of the things that have gone on with between him and Rick.
[00:09:35] But I wanna stay more with like his involvement in selection of the products. Is he heavily involved in it? Is he kind of working with someone? How does.
[00:09:42]Chad Bronstein: He calls us, like he calls, uh, him and Kiki will call us like five times a day with new, with new products. Like, listen, like Holy Ears was, uh, a fun, a fun story.
[00:09:51] So Holy Ears we’re in the, so we reached out to Vander a year ago when we, before we launched Mike Bites, and Vander would say this too. He, you know, they [00:10:00] didn’t wanna do it at that time, but then, you know, a year later we were gonna do Holy Ears for the holidays. Um, and actually as Mike’s idea, Mike and Kiki’s idea, so HO ERs for the holiday.
[00:10:11] and then a Vander happened to reach out to us and we say, Hey, we wanna do Holy Years for holidays. We wanna be a part of this. And he said, yes. So now a vander’s a part of it. We launched Holy Years, we went viral, um, with, with the commercial that we did. We did that commercial
[00:10:25] in
[00:10:26]Chad Bronstein: three days and we, it’s, it comes back down into the team, right?
[00:10:29] I have my C e O of Tyson’s, Adam Wilkes, uh, been in the Cams game for a while. My CMO is Jackie. Um, she’s been in the game of Anheuser Bush for quite some time, more in the mainstream world. Nicole Cosby, who was with me at Filo, who is my chief legal officer now comes from a licensing background. And so she’s, she’s, I took, she came from Filo to Tyson and Aristotle is my other, um, partner.
[00:10:51] And so it’s, you know, I always say, as you guys would know, it’s like building a company, tech and everything else, whatever you’re building is important, but the people are the most important. [00:11:00]
[00:11:01]Bryan Fields: The engagement though is incredible. I’ve seen him at the Benzinga event and the other things that they’ve done, they’re just natural entertainers.
[00:11:08] So kind of being with them. Do you, do you kind of get lost in the, in the atmosphere of the relationships? Because I can imagine sometimes what you’ve seen is people, they’re bigger than life, so we’ve seen people come up to them in just bit excitement. But is there a pairing between the entertainment aspect and the marketing that that plays really nice in cannabis, but there are so many challenge.
[00:11:25]Chad Bronstein: Yeah. I mean, Mike is an incredible, I, I would say they’re both Mike and Rick and their own rights are marketing geniuses, right? And so, so I think that the ability to utilize, um, the marketing we do, which is very pointed and specific, um, with their abilities, I think that allows us, obviously to grow.
[00:11:44] Faster. Right. And, you know, we have a great PR team in K C S A that’s really helped us build this from day one. But we, it’s a lot of work. Like we’re cons. We, we don’t struggle as you guys can assume with getting pressed. So it’s making sure that, um, what we’re doing is very pointed and specific [00:12:00] to what we’re trying to accomplish and build.
[00:12:03] have you noticed,
[00:12:03]Kellan Finney: uh, like a significant, um, shift in some of the cultural stigmas that we, we touched on earlier, just having Tyson and Rick Flair kind of be a part of it and actively participate?
[00:12:14]Chad Bronstein: A hundred percent. I think that, uh, you see you’re seeing more shifts. You’ve seen more vir virality around, um, the two of them, like, you know, when they’re together, it’s very rare.
[00:12:24] I, I like to say, You know, there’s Mi Mike and Rick, and this is what our new thing at Tyson at Karma Holdings, which is our new holding company, now that we have Rick, Mike, and Evander but stand the test of time, right? These guys have been out there for 40 years and they’re still relevant. A lot of people we all seen in our crew, uh, lives, like they don’t stay as, you know, relevant the whole time.
[00:12:47] Mike and Rick are still relevant and they stay on the test of time and that’s because their ability, you know, to be out there and, you know, not afraid. They’re not afraid to say whatever the hell they wanna say. You know, they, they, they’re just not. So, I think that’s [00:13:00] also a big part of it. Did,
[00:13:01]Bryan Fields: did Mike help recruit Rick?
[00:13:03] How did that, uh, alignment?
[00:13:05]Chad Bronstein: No, uh, it, uh, so Rick was my boat neighbor in Tampa. He tells the story at the time, I don’t care. Like I was, uh, he, someone told me Rick Fair was my boat neighbor. I just moved there, right? So I see I’m a big wrestling fan. Um, and I see, uh, the boat, his boat come right next to mine.
[00:13:24] And I, we share the same, uh, guy that takes care of our boat. . And so I, I texted my guys like, Hey, when Rick comes in, let me know. I want to say hi to him with my son. And then I, and then I told him, I’m like, Rick, I wanna start a cannabis brand called the Rick Flair Drip. Cuz Rick Flair Drip was the most popular, one of the most popular watch rap YouTube videos there is.
[00:13:44] I’m like, I could, and Rick’s just such a good market. I grew up on him. So that’s how it started. This was like 10 months ago. Um, and uh, I called Mike and I said, What do you think about Rick Flair as our next brand? And Mike’s like, I love Rick Flair. And so yeah, he had a part I wouldn’t have. I [00:14:00] always call Mike if I’m gonna build a brand.
[00:14:01] I’m like, what do you think? And Mike’s like, there’s nothing not to to love about Rick. And so that’s where we went.
[00:14:08]Bryan Fields: Was there instant chemistry between
[00:14:10]Chad Bronstein: the two of them? They know each other. Yeah, they knew. They, they, uh, they’ve spent time together, you know, so, uh, yeah. I mean, they, they’re, they, they, yeah.
[00:14:19] You know, both of ’em are actually. You know, people get a misperceptions on that. Mike, Mike and Rick are the two like, nicest guys. There are, like, hanging out with them is like, you know, it’s pretty fun. There’s, there’s no, um, they, you know, they’re pretty easy guys to be around.
[00:14:34]Bryan Fields: So one of the things that Tyson 2.0 aims to do is break the mold for how celebrity and cannabis intersects is their plans to add additional, uh, personalities to the.
[00:14:43] Oh,
[00:14:43]Chad Bronstein: there is, yeah, there’s a big one’s gonna be announced next year in the beginning of the year.
[00:14:48]Bryan Fields: Any, any teasing of that for the listeners that maybe can help us figure out who it
[00:14:53]Chad Bronstein: is? Uh, you, you’ll see I can’t tease cuz it’s, it’s a, it’s another, There, there’ll be, you [00:15:00] know, probably a couple names that we’ll announce next year, but we’re very specific in how we choose.
[00:15:04] Like do they fit? You know, we, we, it’s not just about the name and the notoriety of them, it’s also about do they fit our culture? Do they bring, you know, can we have chemistry like we do? You know, it’s, it’s a pretty family oriented culture at. At, at Karma. So we we’re very specific and we have to also, I like, you know what I said, to stand this test of time with Rick and Mike, they’re very nostalgic.
[00:15:27] You asked the question earlier, do you get lost in like, um, in the, you know, the energy around the fans they have and sometimes you do because it’s not about getting lost cuz they’re so happy. It’s also hearing the stories that they have like, and how Mike and Rick have impacted a lot of people’s lives or memories they had with someone in their family.
[00:15:44] So that’s, I think that’s the cool, really cool part to. When
[00:15:47]Kellan Finney: you’re, uh, when you’re, uh, going after additional celebrities, how do you guys vet them? Is there like specific like target personalities that you’re looking to add? Is it like, Hey, we have these two [00:16:00] things covered, we’re looking for like a, a very different one?
[00:16:03] Or is it like you’re just kind of building them all together as like a pyramid?
[00:16:07]Chad Bronstein: Um, you know, it’s a good question. Uh, it kind of just comes and, you know, and like some of ’em are just like, you know, one I’m working at right now, my wife actually brought up in the summer that, uh, that I really will, will reach a different audience, reach an audience that may, we may not capture, right?
[00:16:24] So, obviously, you know, we’re looking at, um, someone right now that if we get it will be incredible. We’ll, we can have another update and then the person that we are partnering with that you want. Launching in Janet, we’ll launch the knobs in January. This person also reaches a very large international audience and US audience and maybe not some audiences that we’re touching today.
[00:16:46] So, um, yeah, and then also you don’t wanna dilute your own, you wanna dilute your own brand. So just also making sure that each brand sits in a different, um, you know, sits and gets the tension. It needs to be
[00:16:59]Bryan Fields: success. . [00:17:00] And it’s also challenging for you too, to make sure that the person not only fits in the community, but also checks the box.
[00:17:05] Like you were saying, you want this person to be involved. You want this to be a part of their life because it’s critical, that celebrity partnership that has this current negative stigma about it, right? Everyone’s like, oh, people just slapped their name on it. And you have to kind of evaluate whether or not this will be a good fit, not only for the brain, but also if the personality and their interests align.
[00:17:22] It’s not just kind of like a cash grab.
[00:17:24]Chad Bronstein: A hundred percent. Yeah. It’s, and, and also it’s like, it makes our lives easier, um, that if that person is involved and it’s not just the person, it’s the team around that person. Like we talked about Mike, we have Kiki and Azim who around him, and we have, we have, we work with all three of them.
[00:17:40] With Rick Flair. We have, um, Kelly Brewster, who’s, and. Wendy, who is his team there that we work with consistently with this new person. We have his team that we work with consistently. So it’s not just about the talent, it’s about the team. The team’s gonna be doing the day-to-day a lot of the times. So you have to be able to work with everyone well, and [00:18:00] that’s, that’s how it becomes successful.
[00:18:02] Just one
[00:18:03]Bryan Fields: last question about the ear edibles. Obviously you got a ton of press and I can’t tell you how many text messages I got from people being like, I gotta try these product, gotta try these products. Was there any hesitation that maybe it wouldn’t be good to fit with a Vander? And then going forward, when it started getting announced, when did you realize it kind of got caught up into the viral world and it was really taken a, a
[00:18:20]Chad Bronstein: life?
[00:18:20] We knew when an evander we knew always if we, when Evander was going to be involved, that it would be we already went viral for mic bites with without a Evander but we knew. You know, ide ideally we always wanted a Evander involved. We’re not, we were never in business to like, take advantage of a situation like we wanted a, Evander and Mike are friends.
[00:18:37] Like people don’t understand that. Like they think there’s still enemies from this, uh, event. They’re, they’re not. So, um, hanging out with Evander and Mike is fun. Like they’re both, they both have so much respect for each other. Um, and in boxing it’s aggressive sport, right? So it’s like, You know, you never know what’s going to happen.
[00:18:54] So I think for us, like having a Evander be a part of the holy Ears and a part of our organization was [00:19:00] always something we wanted and always envisioned. And now I’ve gotten to spend a lot of time with them and Mike together. It’s a, it’s, they always like Mike and Evander’s like people think I hate the guy.
[00:19:10] We’re, we’re, we’ve, we’ve known each other. They were on the Olympic team together, or pre 1984, like these guys go way back. There’s a long, there’s longevity there. So, um, it’s been fun working with them. And we always wanted a Vander. And a Vander also has a good team with his, his son and EJ and his daughter Avette.
[00:19:28] They’re working, working with them. So it’s back to that we’re talking about is that kind of approach. It works really well.
[00:19:35]Bryan Fields: So slightly switching gears to feel. Feel Connect is a new interactive retail media network built for retailers and brands that wanna reach cannabis consumers. Can you kind of expand on the value proposition for that?
[00:19:47] Is it more beneficial for the consumers, for the dispensaries, or a little bit of both?
[00:19:51]Chad Bronstein: It’s for both, right? Because when, you know, so how I, again, Jesse Shannon comes back into this conversation. So Columbia cares one of our bigger [00:20:00] clients, um, for a long time and. I was looking at, you know, we have, we have loyalty, we have advertising, we have data.
[00:20:08] We have, as you guys mentioned Don earlier in the conversation, we have our compliance, uh, software. So, you know, you’re looking at building a, we build a flywheel. So one thing that was missing were the screen side of the business and like, how do we do something different in a, you know, in a space? Cuz you have.
[00:20:24] people out there just putting screens with ads, and that’s my whole background. It’s like, what? How do you make it more interactive? So I called up Jesse and I’m like, Hey, who’s the best screen company you guys are talking to? And he is like, well, we signed an exclusive with this company called nine 16 that wasn’t in cannabis when they signed exclusive, they were in retail, the mainstream.
[00:20:43] It’s the only person that had these screens. and the interactive thing was Columbia Care. Cause they made, they signed an exclusive in cannabis. And so we ended up buying them like after about 11 weeks later of that conversation. And the reason why we liked it was because it was a ex, it was an interactive [00:21:00] experience.
[00:21:00] It was, you know, you’re going on to the screen, it’s recommending, you know, Brian walks in dispensary, what should product should I get? And then also, The fact that it’s, you know, if say there’s not a lot of bud tenders in the store, you’d, you’d be able to use, you know, build this interactive experience to make it the most, um, efficient process for a consumer to walk in and understand what they’re buying and then also being able to purchase.
[00:21:21] So that’s why we liked 9 16. What we also like about it is, Yes, in store it’s not, people aren’t, you know, brands don’t have the opportunity to really advertise the right way. This is more of a way we’re catching a consumer in the actual mindset of cannabis. So we look at it as, , the conversation in both mainstream and cannabis is all about retail connected media.
[00:21:44] Now. It’s not about like, you know, going on just on the website, it’s about what, how do you capture them in the retail experience? And so we believe it’s the beginning phase of that, and that’s, we’re not, we’re playing in both sides, cannabis and the mainstream world about with this retail connected [00:22:00] platform.
[00:22:00] I’m
[00:22:00]Bryan Fields: excited to kind of touch about that retail connected platform cuz I think you’re a hundred percent spot on and I wanna talk about the missing asset that you didn’t share that I know is really critical. It’s the data portion of that, right? Because what you’re collecting there is the most powerful asset is understanding that sure Brian is a constant edible consumer and killing himself like concentrates.
[00:22:17] And that allows you to connect maybe necessarily outside of the industry as well, which can really leverage this on the next.
[00:22:23]Chad Bronstein: Hundred percent. I mean, I think the bridge, the originally, how we started this business, and I don’t, I’m not trying to sell the whole, you know, the business. I’m just going, you know, just talking organically with you guys.
[00:22:32] But when you, when you brought up the data side, uh, yeah. So when we started this idea was exactly that. . I don’t know, Brian, I don’t know. Like, uh, let’s use Kellen. I don’t know if Kellen, um, on paper likes to buy Sativa and Indica. I know he buys Frosted Flakes. I know he likes to shop. He buys, he goes to, he gets Nike’s.
[00:22:50] I know he’s an outdoor enthusiast, but I don’t know about this other version of Kellen. And that’s like, that’s the problem with day-to-day. It’s like you just know what you know, but there’s [00:23:00] all, the cannabis side of it opens up different behaviors about Callen that we would never. And so the back to my old days was like you go to brands and be like, tell me something new about Kellen.
[00:23:10] I don’t know. And you really couldn’t because you have your data sources that you’re going to go and buy C P G data or shopping data. So that’s how Fyllo started was the hypothesis was I could get mainstream brands to buy our data. Now I can openly talk about. Nestle Waters buys our data. It’s, they publicly do a case study, so I can talk about it.
[00:23:30] Uber Eats buys our data. We could talk about it. They do case studies with us. We have the largest holding companies buying our data. They openly talk about it. So, um, the data part is very interesting, both for the cannabis side of it, like you said, Brian, and then also the. The main and then the mainstream side of wanting to understand a new way to reach you and a voice that haven’t reached you in yet today.
[00:23:52] Yeah. So that kind
[00:23:53]Bryan Fields: of data actually helps
[00:23:54]Kellan Finney: cannabis retailers kind of, uh, Level, the playing field, if you will, for [00:24:00] when, um, federal legalization probably occurs and you can access cannabis in your like, standard, uh,
[00:24:07]Bryan Fields: retail setting, correct? Correct. Does it also, uh, help decrease the amount
[00:24:13]Kellan Finney: of time, uh, consumers in the dispensary?
[00:24:16] Cause I know that’s a. A huge variable, or at least factor that a lot of, uh, retailers look at to try to increase their
[00:24:22]Chad Bronstein: revenue a hundred percent. It also establishes like there’s, you know, not just in cannabis, but in the world we’re in today, there’s like, it’s hard to get talent and service industries, right?
[00:24:31] Yeah. So, yeah, we like, we’re in a, we’re in a, you know, we, our, our screens are in a bounty dealership. , um, in Chicago, right? And you, you are, you’re creating pro like you can go, when you go into any car dealership, there’s a plasma screen and you could go to mouse. This is a very quick process. You could go in, build a car, whatever you want.
[00:24:49] So it’s, at the end of the day, we’re trying to, like you decide, is trying to drive efficiencies, whether it be in cannabis or in another. Retail environment because there are [00:25:00] hiring, um, issues and uh, ability to hire enough. So this will allow people to go through the process if they can’t talk to someone in
[00:25:08]Bryan Fields: store.
[00:25:09] When you were pitching Uber Eats and Nestle on the importance of this data, was there, the cannabis stigma kind of attached to it, and did they need to kind of be heard on the value of this new data and how it can make valuable for them?
[00:25:21]Chad Bronstein: So, so Jeff Ragman and myself, Jeff, you guys, dunno if you guys know Jeff, but Jeff has his own podcast.
[00:25:26] It’s called Alchemy. So he. You know, we run a founder’s panel together. I was a chief revenue officer at my last company. He’s been chief commercial officer. A lot of companies. So together we had a lot of fun. Back to your question, educating brands. First. Five minutes back, like two and a half years ago, we had a phone with like a big brand.
[00:25:42] They’d be like, why the fuck am I on a call phone with a cannabis data company? And then you’d always have the aha moments like, oh, this makes sense. So we spent a lot of. a lot of time educating brands. But let me give you another side of that. What also made it fun was that there’s always a [00:26:00] curiosity call.
[00:26:01] So in my la uh, you could be my last company, a big platform or Jeff’s platform, like, oh, we talked to Google, we talked to this, we talked to that. It’s like another one. This time it’s like, oh, Elisa says here, what the hell they have to offer on the cannabis side. Like, what am I, so there’s a lot of curiosity.
[00:26:16] And then we drove them to actual education, to then testing. Right. So I feel like now we’ve had our 9,000 brands test our data, and that’s non-cannabis. You guys get to the
[00:26:28]Kellan Finney: aha moment a little quicker nowadays when
[00:26:30]Chad Bronstein: you’re talking to a new client, ? Yeah. You know what, like you’re still in the phase of like, You know, getting people to test, then moving in more into like the strategic conversation.
[00:26:39] So we’re definitely past, um, the aha moments in a lot of scenarios, but you’re still still fighting the battle with, um, conservative brands. You’re still fighting the battle of like fully embracing. This. I can imagine
[00:26:53]Bryan Fields: the stigma still kind of resonates with some of those more conservative brands because they’re probably wondering themselves like, sure, this can help us, but is it worth kind of the [00:27:00] headlines or the association with the industry, which I don’t believe is negative attachment, but I think some people still have that feeling of if we get partnered with a cannabis company, whether or not they’re touching the plant or not, there is some sort of, it’s negative connotation.
[00:27:14]Chad Bronstein: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think people are okay with buying data cuz they don’t have to actually put a ad with Kellen’s face smoking a blunt, right? so
[00:27:22]Bryan Fields: you wouldn’t do so well anyway. Yeah, totally .
[00:27:25]Chad Bronstein: But, but I think eventually like when you have these four 20 events, right? Like we’ll see more and more QSRs and more and more.
[00:27:32] Brands getting creative with opportunities, right. And as they should, like four 20 is, since we were younger, it’s always been a talked about holiday, right? So it’s like eventually it’s gonna become more mainstream and we’ll see a lot more people, but we’re still not there yet. But we’ve seen a lot of progress, but it’s definitely not, um, something that’s like fully embraced.
[00:27:52]Bryan Fields: From the data side, is there gamification and built in for the loyalty program? Obviously Starbucks has its entire empire from a coffee side, but it has those kind of [00:28:00] cards with the, the purchasing, uh, loading on the card and then having the gamification aspect of it. Is that an aspect your team is building into it as well?
[00:28:07]Chad Bronstein: Yeah, we, no, we’re figuring out, mostly everything we’re gonna build now is around our connected platform. So like anything we embrace or do is gonna be around more of the connected platform. Cuz loyalty in the cannabis space is a tough game and it’s because why it’s tough is because getting text messages out when we, we played like from the carriers gets shut down constantly.
[00:28:26] And it’s, it’s really nothing that anybody can do or build a tech around that’s gonna solve for that. It’s, it was, it was a big problem and we bought data and we. , you know, that process. So it’s like, for us, it’s like everything wanna developed now is around our connected retail product and communicating through there.
[00:28:42]Bryan Fields: What is one concept that the outside industry is shocked to hear about the cannabis industry?
[00:28:47]Chad Bronstein: Hmm. I mean, that’s a tough one. Shock. I, I shock are surprised. Uh, I think when you learn, you get educated about, , all that. If you don’t know anything about cannabis, when [00:29:00] you jump in, you can get shocked and surprised about the stories and the value of how it helps so many people.
[00:29:05] I think that’s the key is like, I think the other side is like when you jump into cannabis like myself, or I’m sure you guys, you jump in, there’s a lot of shock of like, all the, of all of all the bullshit that you, uh, jump into and like you spend a, like when you’re starting conference in cannabis, you’re definitely like spending the first four months just.
[00:29:23] Learning what not to do as well as like not falling into traps. And it’s like it’s, you know, when you start a company in the space, you’re at least spending just a couple hundred thousand dollars educating yourself on mistakes, . Cause there’s a lot of mistakes to, you know, that you could have when you first start.
[00:29:40] That’s, uh,
[00:29:41]Bryan Fields: perfectly said, normalization is critical for the cannabis industry. I’ve given you a magic wand. You can change anything you want to help move the industry forward. What would you.
[00:29:52]Chad Bronstein: Make it federally legal. That be,
[00:29:55]Bryan Fields: it’d be nice. What’s a, what’s a feature request that you get a lot, that [00:30:00] your team will never build or buy?
[00:30:04]Chad Bronstein: I mean, I’ve gotten, I said the biggest request is a lot is like developing creative. We’re never gonna develop creative. Why not? It’s just not, not, not something we wanna do.
[00:30:14]Bryan Fields: If you had unlimited capital, what initiatives would you take on that you are not currently able? .
[00:30:20]Chad Bronstein: Um, well, I think at that point you just consolidate as much as you can under your umbrella with Unlimit,
[00:30:27] No, I mean, I would just, you know, with unlimited capital, I’d just go out and buy more mainstream companies to, you know, I heard monopolies do
[00:30:34]Bryan Fields: pretty well. Yeah, of course. , what would you, what would you say that your competitors aren’t doing?
[00:30:43]Chad Bronstein: Our competitor, my competitors in the canvas space, uh, I mean, we don’t, we don’t really compete a lot of people cause we’re doing something a little different, right.
[00:30:50] So, um, and so I think to look at it as like, we partner with a lot of people versus compete. W what we built is, we’re very specific in our focus. So I [00:31:00] think that’s how we fit in nicely. We did compete with, you know, you compete with like loyalty. Partners. But I think for what, what we do, um, you know, we’re the only company right now that’s actually mainstream and cannabis, and I think that’s our core differentiation.
[00:31:15]Kellan Finney: Are you guys looking to obtain data in other sectors of the market besides just the retail
[00:31:19]Chad Bronstein: sector? A hundred percent. We do obtain data in other, uh, sectors and we have like unique partnerships, uh, that, you know, you could. Like comScore, we need partnership. We have another partnership with fanatics. Like we have a lot of part, we have a lot of partnerships.
[00:31:32] We’re constantly looking for alternative, alternative data sources. The key about our data is that it’s different because it’s back to what we were talking about earlier, it’s this mindset that you would never know about a person. What the fun, the most fun part about when I started FEO was getting on the phone with people.
[00:31:47] I used to talk to my old company. They were up. that would tell me they ate edibles at night. I would’ve never have guessed these people ate edibles at night. Cuz they’re corporate, they’re this, they’re that. You’re like, oh shit. They ate edibles. And then what happens there is they [00:32:00] soften up like they’re, the conversation becomes a lot more fun.
[00:32:03] And so I think for this, this. data set. It’s like this is the future, like more. And we we’re seeing psychedelics, decriminalize, and all these conversations, like more and more people are getting educated and being destigmatized to the power of these products. And I think that’s the, that’s the key. Have
[00:32:19]Kellan Finney: you guys gotten yourself in any like hot water?
[00:32:21] I’m thinking of, uh, The, there’s a, a story from a target data scientist company where they sent, uh, a brochure to a, a daughter that didn’t know she was pregnant yet. Have you guys gotten in any like, hot water? Cuz it’s cannabis related, you know, ?
[00:32:36]Chad Bronstein: No. Cause we’re not, we’re not running, uh, cannabis ads. I mean, we’re not, we’re not, we’re not with the data.
[00:32:40] Yeah. We do run, well, sorry. We do run some for, we do work with a lot of advertising for a lot of the multi-state operators, but everything we do is age gate. It, we’re very, I mean, we’ve been doing this, I come from 15 years. Yeah. . Nicole Cosby, who I mentioned earlier, she ran Publius as a holding company.
[00:32:55] Steve Kettleman was an Omnicom for 25 years. Jeff Ragman, you know, [00:33:00] 22 years in the industry. Con the group around this, the, um, our chief of data analytics ran Catalina and then ran Turner Broadcasting like w w our chief legal officers, Travis Moyer, who used to run grassroots. We were on the other side of negotiation that was at cur ke leaf.
[00:33:14] So like for us, we and you guys use our compliance stack. Everything we do. Compliant. You’re following the guidelines like we just to what you just brought up Exactly. To make sure we don’t ever fall into that bucket, cuz we could get torn apart if that happened.
[00:33:30]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Is there a outside industry company that you draw from inspiration or say, Hey, I’m building filo to look like X or Y.
[00:33:38] Similar.
[00:33:39]Chad Bronstein: We’re building FEO to be Fuo. Oh, good answer. . I don’t, I I, one thing you’ll learn about me is like, you talk about competitors and all this other crap, like I just keep my head down. We keep our head down. Like, you’re always gonna have copycats, but you know, you just focus on what you focus on and work hard.
[00:33:55] And the rest is, you know, the, is what’s in your control. So I, I like to [00:34:00] build, I like to build filo on, you know, and my team, we build filo, we learn stuff, but it’s what Filos gonna.
[00:34:08]Bryan Fields: If the business overachieve, what does it look like in five years? And if you miss what have gone wrong?
[00:34:15]Chad Bronstein: Well, the business overachieve what it looks like in five years.
[00:34:18] You know, you’re at a multi a hundred million dollar revenue stream. Um, Not a hundred million. Cause I think we’ll be there already. But in terms of, uh, five years from now, like, you’re at a, you know, you’re at a very large company size, um, and you’ve broken a lot of the stigmas. Strategic now, it doesn’t overachieve.
[00:34:36] It’s things that are, you know, we didn’t execute properly or, you know, we got a recession. People start pulling back, continue to pull back. There’s a lot of different factors, I would say, as being a c e O in this space since we started, uh, COVID hit. And we, and we just raised money. We had no idea what was gonna happen.
[00:34:54] Right? The first time we raised money in 2019, they stock the cannabis market crash, right? So it’s like, [00:35:00] keep throwing ’em on. Now we’re in a recession. So for me, it’s like at this point, you know, being an entrepreneur, you just don’t know what’s gonna hit you. So it’s like keep your head up high, be bulletproof, and just keep fucking trucking.
[00:35:12] been battle.
[00:35:13]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Battle test for the last three years. That’s all. That’s all you can do, . Alright, let’s say a zombie apocalypse. Rank these people in order most likely to thrive and survive. Mike Tyson, you, Jeff Ragovin, and Rick.
[00:35:29]Chad Bronstein: in a apocalypse, zombie apocalypse, zombie apocalypse. Um, I don’t know. Each person deals with, uh, different things at different ways.
[00:35:39] I’d say Mike Tyson will and, and, uh, will definitely knock a lot of those zombies out. Right. Um, Jeff will be the chef and, uh, whatever, whatever food is. Out there, Jeff will catch. Right. So and so that, so it depends, you know, and me, I figure out a crafty way. [00:36:00] I don’t, I don’t know. It’s a tough question. I can’t answer that.
[00:36:02] Cause we all bring different things to the table. We’d be a good team. We
[00:36:05]Bryan Fields: asked Jeff how he would do in that, cuz that’s his go-to question on his podcast. And he said he would thrive and listed up all the characteristics he said he did. And I was like, well if the zombie pocket this happens. I’m
[00:36:13]Chad Bronstein: coming to you.
[00:36:14] Jeff is very, Jeff is like, Jeff can will plant. And he, and. Jeff is very good. Uh, outside.
[00:36:22]Bryan Fields: Yeah, I think he said he’d give someone his calf, which I just love. That was a very heroic move on his part. He’d give someone his calf. I, I, I have to listen back to the quote, but it was something very heroic of what he’d be willing to do for,
[00:36:32]Chad Bronstein: for the team.
[00:36:34] Yeah. Jeff’s very, uh, Jeff’s very, uh, crafty when it comes to like outdoorsy stuff.
[00:36:40]Bryan Fields: 20 years from now, we’ll look back and say, that was barbaric. I can’t believe we did that in the cannabis industry. What is.
[00:36:49]Chad Bronstein: I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t think, I don’t know what I, I mean, the barbaric thing is the banking side right now is not being able to do, uh, for companies to be act.
[00:36:58] I think 20 years spent be like, what the fuck? Why [00:37:00] wouldn’t they be able to, you have all these big public companies and companies that have raised capital that are producing a lot of money and they can’t get banking. That’s what I think will be barbaric.
[00:37:11]Bryan Fields: What is the biggest misconception about your.
[00:37:15]Chad Bronstein: There’s a lot of misconceptions, like people just don’t know. Sometimes it’s just confused on what we, cuz we have a couple offerings, but, uh, um, I think just the, what we actually offer, I think there’s a misconception sometimes because some people just don’t fully grasp it.
[00:37:31]Bryan Fields: When you started your journey in the cannabis space, what did you get?
[00:37:34] Right? And most importantly, what did you get wrong?
[00:37:37]Chad Bronstein: I got a lot of things wrong. Um, as you, as any entrepreneur, if any entrepreneur says they got everything right, uh, what we did get right was our, our mission, right? That we knew that. Um, there was an opportunity stigmatized that if you brought pedigree into the market, it would, and you actually, you know, no one had egos and just knew that it was gonna be a grind.
[00:37:56] And then our vision, which was the data side, which is [00:38:00] that unique aspect that brands would wanna know more about. And that’s how we kind of built our whole company around.
[00:38:06]Bryan Fields: Before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sump your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?
[00:38:15]Chad Bronstein: You know, I think that it sounds cliche, but everyone, and you guys would know this too, it’s like when you start a company, like you just gotta be super, super resilient and you, it’s not, you have to have a mindset of like, just pure, like anything that I get thrown at me, I just fucking keep going. Like, I’ve been hit so many times in this when I started this company.
[00:38:36] Some things I can’t even share on, uh, a podcast, but. Just things that you just would never expect. So, um, it’s not just about your business side, it’s about don’t forget who you partner with too. There’s a lot of different aspects that come into, um, play and things. You know, you just, you’re gonna be naive with because it’s not experience you, you learn from experience.
[00:38:55] So I think just come in with the open mind. But if you think, you know, I always [00:39:00] tell people, some people are better off suited at large companies. It’s not a bad thing, but when you start a company, you just gotta be, you got, you gotta be thick-skinned and you gotta be ready to grind no matter what.
[00:39:09]Bryan Fields: Really well said.
[00:39:11] All right. Prediction time, Chad. We’ve seen early breakthroughs with mainstream media and cannabinoid companies like the M L B and Charlotte’s Web. What event or marketing partnership would completely unlock marketing for the cannabis industry in the mainstream?
[00:39:25]Chad Bronstein: Well, I think, you know, more like if N F L comes out and more of these play leagues come out, becomes more and more mainstream.
[00:39:32] But I think, you know, I think the one thing is gonna have to happen is safe banking, at least everything else. But I do think more and more of these mainstream partnerships will push pressure on the rest of the industry. Kelly,
[00:39:45]Bryan Fields: your thoughts? I’m gonna go with the Olympic C. .
[00:39:48]Chad Bronstein: Oh, that’d be a big one. Yeah.
[00:39:49] Right.
[00:39:50]Kellan Finney: I think that you saw, um, a couple events in the last three years that have. Stood in the forefront of media publicly, [00:40:00] all having to do with Olympic athletes. So I think that would be huge, especially globally. Right? We always talk just domestic US markets, but there’s a couple other countries out there in the world.
[00:40:09] Y yeah. Brian, what do you think
[00:40:10]Bryan Fields: the Sprinter with the performance enhancing, uh, failed drug test is still an incredible one today. Performance enhancing, I think the Super Bowl, right? Like at the end of the day, I think the Super Bowl is the massive event with the amount of eyeballs it gets. I. Uh, eventually that’ll be a, a big unlocking for kind of just public perception and removing the stigmatization and also think what your team’s doing, Chad, of having these conversations about the importance of cannabis data with the Nestle, with these other large brands Ubers, to, to allow them to recognize that there is a tone of value in partnering and there’s, there is no different opportunities where it needs to be separated.
[00:40:42] It can all be one understanding of principles and data and helping people as a whole move forward with personalization and, Better
[00:40:48]Chad Bronstein: recommendations. I also think we set the tone. We got Forester to do the first, uh, study with us about the study of CMOs and brands. And that was like, it’s like, it’s like you said, it’s like [00:41:00] it’s fu it’s fucked up.
[00:41:00] That world we live in is like everyone, you have to find something that people will follow onto or lean credibility. But yeah, that’s, uh, I agree to you on the super Superbowl thing though, if you can get a Super Bowl ad in there, it’s boom, it’s, it’s a big, yeah, but I will say the big thing for us was with Tyson, Jimmy Kimmel actually.
[00:41:16] Talked about the Holy Ears and showed the packaging on live tv, which is the first time that’s ever been done.
[00:41:22]Bryan Fields: Yeah. I mean, excuse, can’t, can’t imagine what that earned media eyeballs must have gotten you from an impression standpoint. Yeah. Does, did he try the products? Did you send him some
[00:41:29]Chad Bronstein: after? I, I can’t speak on, on, on behalf.
[00:41:32] We sent ’em a lot. We sent a lot of ’em, pro lot of different people products, you know. Definitely.
[00:41:35]Bryan Fields: I believe it. So Chad, for our listeners, they want to get in touch, they wanna learn more about Filo and Tyson 2.0. Where can they find you? They
[00:41:42]Chad Bronstein: can find us online on our websites, on LinkedIn. I mean, we’re pretty active, both companies on social, so we’re pretty easy to find.
[00:41:50]Bryan Fields: We’ll, we’ll link those up in the shots. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you
Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
Today’s cannabis industry is not how it will operate in the future.
Trulieve dominance in Florida is well known, but most fail to realize the critical importance of optionality and flexibility in their strategy, specifically the hub and spoke model.
With new markets such as Pennsylvania, Maryland, Georgia and Connecticut set to come online and footholds in key markets Arizona and Florida, Trulieve is positioned to grow & navigate the unknowns, which is Cannabis.
This week on The Dime, we interview Kim Rivers, CEO of Trulieve, to discuss
How Kim is studying the rollback of alcohol of prohibition to set up Trulive for future scenarios
What is Cannabis 2.0
The Integration of the largest M&A in Cannabis
Florida Adult Use, Social Equity, and Home grow update.
And so much more
About Trulieve:
Trulieve is an industry-leading, vertically integrated cannabis company and multi-state operator in the U.S., with established hubs in the Northeast, Southeast, and Southwest, anchored by leading market positions in Arizona, Florida, and Pennsylvania. Trulieve is poised for accelerated growth and expansion, building scale in retail and distribution in new and existing markets through its hub strategy. By providing innovative, high-quality products across its brand portfolio, Trulieve delivers optimal customer experiences and increases access to cannabis, helping patients and customers to live without limits. Trulieve is listed on the CSE under the symbol TRUL and trades on the OTCQX market under the symbol TCNNF.
[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: what’s up guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Thes and with me as always, this Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest, Kim River, c e o of Tru Leaf. Kim, thanks for taking the time. How you doing today?
[00:00:10]Kim Rivers: I’m doing great. Thanks so much for having me, guys.
[00:00:12] Appreciate
[00:00:13]Bryan Fields: it. Excited diving in. Kellen, how are you doing?
[00:00:15]Kellan Finney: I’m doing awesome. Really excited to talk to Kim and, uh, looking forward to trying to hold
[00:00:19]Bryan Fields: the West Coast down over here. Yeah, Kim, so just for the record, Kell and I have a little east coast, west coast battle, and I know you have your Southern roots, but if you had to choose a coast, which one would you choose?
[00:00:29]Kim Rivers: Oh, east Coast, all the way. Baby
[00:00:32]Bryan Fields: put the record stated on East Coast. So Kim, for our listeners, they’re very familiar with what you do, but I think what they don’t get to do is get a peek behind the curtain of what it’s like to run the largest US cannabis company. Can you give us a day-to-day basis of what a day is like for Kim
[00:00:48]Kim Rivers: Rivers?
[00:00:49] Oh, man. Um, sure. I mean, every day is a little bit different. That’s one of the things I absolutely love about being in this role and, um, having the pleasure of being, um, c e O of of Tru leave. [00:01:00] You know, today, as an example, um, we started off with, um, meetings. My day is typically filled with a lot of, um, a lot of conversations, um, and a lot of meetings that range really a gamut of topics.
[00:01:11] And so, um, you know, today we had our executive meetings, so it was a time for us to touch base as an executive team to go over our strategic goals as well as get an update from finance in terms of how we’re tracking against some of our initiatives and how we see those playing out. For this quarter, but really in, for it’s long term and midterm and short term, um, from that respect.
[00:01:31] Um, and then after that, um, let’s see, I had another, um, conversation around expansion and what we’re doing in certain markets that we’re gonna be bringing online. Um, making sure that we’re all good, um, from that perspective. Um, and then of course preparing a little bit for, um, this conversation. Um, and then, uh, you know, talking to folks on some interviews today.
[00:01:51] Um, so it really does really vary from, from day to day. Um, you know, a lot of, um, I’d say planning and projections and really, um, [00:02:00] strategic based conversations in terms of what we’re doing in the decisions we’re making, doing we’re making today, and how those will impact, um, tomorrow along with what I call, um, you know, swing through meetings.
[00:02:10] That’s kind of a true leave turn, meaning that, um, we talk a lot about, you know, you put plans in motion, but being very disciplined about making sure that. Take the time to analyze the results and take away lessons that we’ve learned from those actions. And so, for example, this morning in Florida, it was a hundred percent a data-driven, um, conversation around what we’re doing and what we’ve done around the holidays, how those performed, and what we’ve learned, um, what our takeaways are and how that’s impacting and affecting, uh, positioning on a, on a near term and a midterm basis.
[00:02:42] And so, um, you know, and so I say follow through, right? It’s kind of the, a golf term or, um, you know, a, a tennis term or what have you, right? It’s, it’s about the follow through. So, um, cause otherwise, I think that as a large organization specifically, you know, you can get caught in the just. You know, rinse, repeat, or day-to-day or, right.
[00:02:58] Let’s just keep going. Um, [00:03:00] and it’s very easy to do that in cannabis because our pace is so frenzied. Um, but you know, really if we, if we don’t take a take a minute and, um, step back and really dive in, um, to ask the question in terms of why, and did this do it, we thought it was going to do, why or why not?
[00:03:14] Um, celebrate the wins, but also, um, have opportunity for learning. Um, we think that’s super critical. So, um, part of today was spent on that as well. , uh,
[00:03:22]Kellan Finney: one y that I’ve been really curious about has been the Harvest Health acquisition. Mm-hmm. , uh, we were chatting earlier and you mentioned, uh, in your previous life you were an m and A attorney.
[00:03:31] Yeah. Uh, I’m curious how much that experience affected the due diligence, the execution, and the integration of Harvest
[00:03:38]Bryan Fields: Health with truly
[00:03:39]Kim Rivers: Yeah. I mean, it doesn’t hurt right, ? So, um, you know, I think that, um, you know, I think that, uh, for me, yes, I’m a recovering, I say that a lot. I’m a recovering attorney. Um, I was on, um, m and a Insec Securities and it’s m and a in securities work, um, for a while.
[00:03:53] And then on as an entrepreneur also was heavily involved in, um, deal work and building portfolios and then [00:04:00] repositioning those and selling those, um, and the hospitality space primarily. And so, um, certainly, you know, um, large acquisitions, um, are not something that is unusual, um, for me. So I think that it assisted in the sense that it wasn’t.
[00:04:15] You know, sure. It’s a huge deal. Right? But it’s, um, I, I kind of understood going in what it was gonna look like, the mechanics, right? What we needed to be, how we need to be organized, what we need to be looking for, how we need to be thinking about, um, the, um, at least from a structural process perspective, um, the transaction.
[00:04:31] So I think that that certainly helped, um, you know, early on, and I think really my time as an attorney, um, and did big, big acquisitions representing Georgia Pacific and some other very, very large, large companies. Um, what struck me during that period of time is that I noticed sort of differences in terms of strategies and approach during deal negotiation, and then immediately following, um, a deal closing.
[00:04:55] Um, because obviously at, at that point then we were no longer involved necessarily, but in the [00:05:00] process, right? We’re very, very instrumentally involved as, as a lawyer, as legal counsel. And I noticed that the companies that, um, I saw. Where the deals continued to really be, um, beneficial over a long period of time, worked very hard to, um, make sure that the negotiation process and the setup, moving into closing between call it sign and close was amicable, was inclusive, and, um, had a collaborative feel.
[00:05:24] And I think that, you know, oftentimes, um, in a, in a deal, right, things can get, um, adversarial. That’s not unusual, right? That’s not unusual for issues to come up. That’s certainly expected. But I think how you handle those and how you set the teams up for success through that process can make all the difference.
[00:05:43] Because if you’re. At battle and at war and it’s non-collaborative at the end of it, right? These folks are gonna be your partners . So it becomes very difficult cuz one day, right, you’re, you’re yelling or you know you’re upset and then the next day, right, you’re supposed to be in an org structure together and building this the [00:06:00] future of this combined organization.
[00:06:01] And so I would say that really was. Probably one of the biggest learnings, um, that I carried over into, um, the, the, and the team carried over on the, through the leadership and of the, of the Har Harvest closing. Um, we began immediately with a small group of business leaders, um, meeting really, Twice a week, which then went to every day, um, during the week, right as we approached closing, working through business issues, making sure that the business decisions were driving as opposed to the lawyers driving, which is kind of funny coming from a lawyer, but not all lawyers are there to see a deal closed.
[00:06:36] Right? Um, and so just making sure that, again, we had collaboration and that we really understood each other’s perspectives so that, you know, at the end of it, we, we did come out a, a stronger team and, you know, happy to say that all, but the, um, former Harvesty o are still with our organization and are very meaningful contributors.
[00:06:54] They were, um, you know, on the call this morning as part of the executive team, um, to the combined organization. And I think that talent [00:07:00] retention, um, at the top is, is super critical. Um, as we think about, you know, trickle down effects and, um, the talent that we wanna retain throughout the. , was it
[00:07:09]Bryan Fields: a 2.1 billion acquisition?
[00:07:12]Kim Rivers: Uh, well, I mean, you have to be the share exchange. I mean, that was a reported price right. At the time. Um, there was some movement, so it became less than that, um, at closing, um, because we, it was a sh it was a fixed share ratio to actually, for just that reason, to make sure that Right as valuation shifted, um, that the integrity of the, of the deal remained and neither party Right.
[00:07:33] Was kind of equal footing from what we had negotiated. But yeah, it was a pretty, it was a pretty large transaction. The largest
[00:07:38]Bryan Fields: one in cannabis still to date, correct. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , that’s great that, that’s what I wanted to confirm was to make sure that is still the largest one to date, . Are there additional challenges that were specific to cannabis that you hadn’t faced prior that kind of surprised you along the.
[00:07:53]Kim Rivers: I don’t think anything that surprised me necessarily. I mean, obviously it’s state by state, so, um, you know, we had to go [00:08:00] through the, um, regulatory right requirements of every state for transfer, and those are very different from state to state. So it was a lot of work on the, um, licensing and regulatory teams for sure.
[00:08:13] Um, a lot of coordination around, you know, the, the win and how, and, you know, had to fly, um, out to California to one city to get fingerprinted and interviewed as an example. Um, you know, so there, there were all kinds of little nuances. Um, you know, the process in Nevada is extremely robust and takes a very long time, um, because of their gaming background, right?
[00:08:34] In terms of how they, how they, um, view cannabis licenses. Um, so I mean, certainly there were nuances that were unique to the cannabis industry. I wouldn’t say anything that was surprising necessarily. Um, since we’ve been through, you know, a number of, um, a number of different state regulatory. You know, situations in the past.
[00:08:50] But, um, and you know, last that in that year, um, which is, I could still say last year cause we’re in December, but in that year, um, we actually closed seven m and a [00:09:00] transactions with Harvest being one of them. So, um, we certainly were comfortable in the m and a space. Um, but you know, obviously we had more, more of those.
[00:09:09] It was just more of, um, of the regulatory requirements that, uh, that we had to.
[00:09:14]Kellan Finney: So Harvest Health’s footprint is geographically very different than tree leaves. Yes. Um, that of course plays into your guys’ larger strategy. Were there other kind of, uh, targets that you had been looking at, or was Harvest Health kind of like the prettiest girl at the dance and you guys were just trying to court
[00:09:30]Kim Rivers: her?
[00:09:31] Yeah, so, um, we’re constantly looking at opportunities. Um, we are constantly scanning the landscape, um, you know, proactively. So in terms of what, what we might be looking for. Of course also reactively in terms of folks that may be, you know, putting themselves, um, on the, on the block for sale. So, um, it really is, um, and that’s a discipline that we, that we’ve.
[00:09:53] Exercised throughout Tru Leaf’s entire existence. Um, you know, it’s something that we were, um, that I was [00:10:00] pretty, you know, dead set on early on. I think your pipeline has to remain full. I think you need to be in the conversation. I think you wanna have the phone call when right, someone is, is considering or even thinking about.
[00:10:10] I’m gonna have tons of conversations with folks that are just like, Hey, you know, one day or where was your, you know, where would your head. , you know, about this or that. And so, um, I think it’s, that’s really Im important, um, for an organization. Um, as it relates to Harvest specifically, we had looked at a number of opportunities, um, behind the scenes, right?
[00:10:27] Our board, um, and, and management aligned around our hub strategy where we felt that it was really. Going to be important from a positioning, long-term positioning, um, perspective to have regional hubs set up, um, both for connectivity to customer as well as, um, supply chain and distribution, um, capabilities for the future when the landscape changes, um, which at some point we, we know that it will.
[00:10:51] Um, but also for us to be able to have short term or near term operational efficiencies to be able to share teams between markets, share supplies, and buying power [00:11:00] between markets and really operate again, more, um, more efficiently. And so when we looked at the kind of the map and we looked at the regions, you know, we, we strategically decided that we wanted to have obviously a very strong southeast presence, which we felt pretty comfortable that we can build organically.
[00:11:15] Um, for the most part. I mean, we’ll see how it, how it plays out, but we feel like we’ve got a better. Better than 50% shot. Right. To, to grow that organically with our, um, our strength in, um, in the southeast already, um, the northeast, we had a foothold, right? We had bought, um, some businesses in Pennsylvania.
[00:11:33] Three that we had. Um, we had started a merging together. Um, we were in, um, had a, a little small foothold in, in Connecticut. We were in Massachusetts, we were opening West Virginia organically. So we had some activity happening in, nor in the Northeast, but it wasn’t completely gelled or organized quite yet.
[00:11:50] Um, and then we had a, you know, kind of small, um, small footprint in California. And so, We, um, you know, looked at the markets and really made the decision that we felt [00:12:00] like if we were going to expand beyond the East coast, that really the Southwest corridor was the, made the most sense for us. Um, from a, um, I’ll call it from a politics pro, you know, policy, politics, kind of all of the, all of the reasons as well as not having some of the onerous requirements that some of the other West coast markets have, um, making it, you know, less than desirable from a returns or profitability perspective.
[00:12:23] And so, um, you know, when you put all of those things on the paper, um, harvest jumped out as a natural target for us. Um, we were able to, you know, increase our footprint, um, in Florida. Um, we were able to increase our footprint and really solidify positioning in the Northeast with the number one, um, Affiliate retail network in Pennsylvania.
[00:12:47] Um, we were able to solidify then a, a foothold, really a, a strategic, um, base, if you will, in the southwest with, again, the number one, um, retailer in, uh, the market of [00:13:00] Arizona. Um, we also saw a lot of opportunity to lean into what, um, what Tru Leave does, um, and really to add value, um, to the combined portfolio.
[00:13:10] And so when we think about, you know, our expertise in, and it’s funny because most folks think of us as our retailer, and certainly we have led with retailer retail. We’re the number one retailer in the, I think in the. , maybe in, I guess on the planet , um, as it relates to cannabis, which is weird to say, I would say in the us but someone reminded me this past week at Arcview, they were like, but isn’t it, um, global?
[00:13:30] I was like, oh, yeah, I guess you’re right. Um, , which is cool. . Yeah. Um, so, um, you know, but to support that retail, we also have, um, you know, close to, if not the largest, um, supply chain f. in the space. And so, you know, we operate over 4 million square feet of cultivation. We operate at scale. We understand manufacturing at scale, right?
[00:13:53] Um, you know, in Florida alone, we’re, um, producing and selling, not, not just producing, but selling over a ton of cannabis every single [00:14:00] week. Um, so. , you know, we, we do understand and have, I think, you know, expertise from a supply chain perspective and felt that, you know, harvest had really leaned into retail and had not had the opportunity to, um, focus and or invest as much on supply chain.
[00:14:16] So we felt that we could come in and really, um, you know, solidify or strengthen, um, the. And really insulate, um, positions in those markets. And so all of those things came together. And to be just perfectly candid, I called Steve White and um, so I, that was a pursuit that was in a, they were up for sale.
[00:14:35] That was a me calling him and saying, listen, um, you know, I I, and they had just gone through a turnaround, so they were turning the page on back to profitability, um, at that point, right? They had shed a lot of the, um, the weight that was kind of overhanging in some of their Go-Go acquisition days. And, um, we’re in the right mindset, I think, for a partnership with a company like ours who, [00:15:00] um, also comes from a very, um, you know, I would say financially disciplined, um, background.
[00:15:05] And so just said, you know, listen, I think, you know, we’ve got the capital to come in and really invest in some of these markets to strengthen the position. , um, you know, to secure kind of our vision for the future, which, you know, we, we went over and, um, his board and and himself, um, you know, really were, were very receptive and that’s how the conversation started.
[00:15:26] And, um, you know, I guess you would say the rest is history. It was a long time from then to, that actually started, I think in the last part of the year before, um, we announced the deal. So I think it took us maybe like four or five months to get to a place where we were, um, you know, where, where then, you know, the deal, the deal was announced.
[00:15:45] So, um, and then it was a very quick from, uh, deal announcement to closing again by design to make sure that we had and could channel the momentum of the team, et cetera. Um, and, and get, get through to closing. . [00:16:00] I think that’s so
[00:16:00]Bryan Fields: important cuz I think when people see m and a, they get wrapped up in the headlines and they expect immediate results.
[00:16:05] And I think the one thing that your team recognizes that one plus one doesn’t equal two, it equals three, maybe four. Given that synergies that come together. So synergies unfortunately take some time, right? There’s overlapping of positions and resources and bringing that together. So how, how long does that take and when do you expect to see some of those synergistic results kind of adding to the bottom line and the benefits for.
[00:16:25]Kim Rivers: Yeah, for sure. So I think we’ve been, try, at least we’ve tried to be very transparent in our journey, right? Um, with integration. And you’re right. I mean, this was a huge transaction. There were a lot of folks, um, affected and impacted and, um, it does take time, right? Um, we, um, we knew right away, um, and actually talked about this before closing, that we were likely going to be jettisoning certain assets in certain parts of the Harvest portfolio.
[00:16:51] Um, just because we saw the numbers and it, it didn’t necessarily make sense. We wanted to get closed. own them. Really make sure that we understood, make sure that there [00:17:00] wasn’t some other opportunity that we may have missed. Right. Um, sitting on the sidelines versus being in the driver’s seat. Um, but you’ve seen us right over the last couple of quarters.
[00:17:09] Do just that. Um, you know, we’ve, we’ve closed, um, certain markets that quite frankly just weren’t contributive. Um, they, they were cash flow negative. They were, you know, it just, they just didn’t make sense. The, the footprint wasn’t large enough to be. , you know, to, to, to be efficient. Um, so, you know, to have a, a single site that’s landlocked, that can only produce X amount and you’re only on one part of the supply chain, um, it was either, you know, we were gonna have to make significant investment there to really build an entire market around that particular asset or make the decision to let it go.
[00:17:44] And, um, you know, for us, again, it depends. Is it in a region that we’re trying. You know, that we’re trying to optimize, is it close in proximity? Are there efficiencies that we can gain in other ways? If the answer to those are all no, and there’s no path to profitability, then for us it’s a pretty easy black and white.
[00:17:59] You [00:18:00] know, it’s, it’s, we’ve, we’ve gotta let it go. And so we’ve been executing against that. Um, we also have. Course have been investing in and really spending a lot of, um, time and energy on the supply chain of the legacy harvest assets to bring those up to speed. Um, evaluating those on a site by site basis, same thing, right?
[00:18:19] Is it something that makes sense? There’s, you know, some small assets that have been scattered that they don’t make any, they just don’t make any sense. Um, and you know, it’s, so again, making those decisions and, um, you know, pulling kind of, you know, turning the page, if you will, is what we, is what we say.
[00:18:33] And so really we’re gonna be done, I think with the majority of those activities by year end. That’s certainly been our stated goal, is to get through the, the vast bulk, and I mean over 80, 90% of, of, um, integration by your end, we’re on track to achieve that. Um, and so really coming out of first quarter, um, you should, you know, we should all see, um, and, and I think even, you know, it’s, it’s starting to ramp coming into Q4 and q1, so.
[00:18:59] From [00:19:00] my perspective, you know, everything is on track, right? Um, it’s interesting because of course you’ve got the macro environment now on top of it, and so it sort of muddies the waters. It that sort of, it does, it muddies the waters from a clarity perspective in terms of what’s contributing where and how and, and how is, um, you know, macro contributing to consumer behavior, um, vis-a-vis, um, you know, is integration going well and, and how is that flowing through?
[00:19:26] Um, so I think that can be a bit confusing for folks for sure. Um, but again, I think as from, from my perspective, um, integration and those activities are continuing on, on path and on track. .
[00:19:38]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Those are hard decisions, right? You have to set the team up for success. And sometimes that means recognizing that this is not part of the future, and unfortunately it has to be let go so that the team can be positioned for success.
[00:19:48] And one of the things that I’m most fascinated about truly does, the hub and spoke model announced in 2020 that obviously had a big focus on what the future would look like, not current, current, uh, cannabis operations. Can you kind of expand on what were the thinking [00:20:00] behind that?
[00:20:01]Kim Rivers: Yeah, I mean, I think that, um, you know, we are a, a team and a board that is constantly, um, again, focused on today certainly, and making sure we’re making the most of today, but also on what’s, you know, what’s next and where are we headed, and making sure that we have an identified and communicated path, um, strategic path forward, um, and that we’re making moves and we’re executing against that strategy.
[00:20:27] Um, one of my biggest pet peeves is, you know, to spend, um, time developing a strategic plan, developing strategic goals, and then have it sit on the shelf, um, right in a binder typically, right? That never to be referenced again. And so, um, we spend some pretty concentrated time with one another, um, every year in January, um, where we talk a lot about, you know, where we’re headed and, and where we want to be positioned as an organization.
[00:20:51] And so the hubs spoke model came from that work, um, alongside the board. And, you know, my board is. Fantastic. Um, it’s a [00:21:00] very diverse board, but I mean, just the background and the expertise that they bring to the table. They’re a very involved and engaged board and, um, just really meaningfully contribute to, to our, to our direction.
[00:21:11] And we realized right, that we needed to diversify one. Right. But two and two, we also wanted to make sure. that Because we had seen a number of cannabis companies get so big so fast with really, from, at least from where we sat, no necessarily no necessary rhyme or reason in terms of the why they were going into these markets or what their long-term vision or strategy was.
[00:21:34] Um, as these markets either continued to develop or not. Right? And so, um, you know, for us it was very important to define what does success look like? What is our goal, um, with expansion and how are we gonna measure against that? Again, short term, midterm, long term. And so, um, you know, when we, when we think about it for us, right?
[00:21:55] We are an organization that. Wants to have depth and scale. Um, we believe [00:22:00] that true connectivity to a customer, you know, it goes back to the 20 18, 20 19 days where, you know, everyone had this map slide and it was just pins on a map, and then it was this whole tam, right? Total addressable market. I have, you know, three stores in California, but somehow I’m gonna capture the entire population of California through those three stores, right?
[00:22:21] I mean, we saw it all the time. I mean, oh, I have a, you know, 20,000 square foot cultivation, you know, facility, but it’s in this state. And so that means, right, I have the opportunity to have, you know, these millions of people, right. Enjoy my cannabis products. Like that’s, False. Like that’s a lie, . And so, and it all, I used to get so frustrated going to these conferences and then having to be in meetings and answer the question like, well, where’s your map slide?
[00:22:48] And I’m like, oh my gosh. We’re in a market of 21 million people and we actually have a. The opportunity to service these people. And like, why don’t we ask about how many people can you serve through a register and how are you doing [00:23:00] time, you know, anyway, what’s your efficiency? Like? What, how many products can you produce and how are you distributing those products effectively and efficiently?
[00:23:07] Um, so anyway, as an industry, right, we have some, I think, maturation still to do, um, in, in that, in that arena or that vein. And so, um, you know, for, for us, again, when we thought about expansion, we wanted to make sure that we were holding true to what we knew. Our core values, our core truths are, is that we believe in actually connecting.
[00:23:28] On a meaningful level with as many customers and or patients as possible. Um, we believe in efficiencies of depth and scale in a market. And, um, we also believe in, um, you know, optimizing our footprint for today, but also for the future. And so that really was where the hub and spoke, um, model came from is because in some markets, right, we know that we can’t necessarily get depth in scale like we can in other markets because of the regulatory restrictions on that particular market.
[00:23:56] You can only have X amount of canopy. You can only have x amount of stores. [00:24:00] Okay, so what if you could kind of hybrid it by getting adjacent, you know, so in, in another word, the region had depth and scale and we at least were able to combine again, buying. You know, talent know-how, et cetera. So that as a, as a region, we’re able to get some of those efficiencies.
[00:24:21] So it, it can, can maybe make sense, right? In some of those, in some of those markets, although it doesn’t always. Um, and so, you know, again, I think that, um, you know, for us executing against that has been a north star for us. And, um, when the landscape changes, not if, but when, um, I think we’re going to have, we’re going to be set up for, um, you know, significant success because we understand, um, and I think we’re the only operator that can say this, right?
[00:24:50] We operate. and distribute. I mean, if you just look at our Florida footprint, we’re operating millions of square feet of cultivation and production. We’re putting out a whole catalog of [00:25:00] SKUs, and we’re effectively distributing that every single day to 121 stores across the state. And so, right. Um, we understand we’ve got the systems built, we know how to do it, and you know, where a lot of other operators have operated, you know, 10 stores here, five stores here, you know, 20 stores here.
[00:25:20] And, um, I, I just think when you, when you level up and you really build scale, it’s a whole different, it’s a whole different ballgame. That’s what I can tell you, . There are a lot of, um, a lot of lessons to learn along, along the way.
[00:25:33]Kellan Finney: So with the, with the hub and spoke model, it turns out that the state that you choose to kind of build that infrastructure in is gonna be critical.
[00:25:39] Uh, would you say that regulatory. Kind of, uh, environment is the most critical data point or is there other kind of data points that your team, um, considers when, like debating which state to deploy capital for
[00:25:51]Kim Rivers: infrastructure in? Yeah, I mean, so we have three cornerstone markets today, right? It’s, it’s Florida, Pennsylvania, and Arizona, um, in those [00:26:00] markets, right?
[00:26:00] They all have something in common and that we are able to hold a market leading position at what we would consider some level of scale for that region. And so, for example, obviously Florida’s Florida, but um, in Pennsylvania, right? Um, there are 20, um, dispensaries held through affiliates. And so that’s the leading footprint.
[00:26:21] And then our cultivation has the opportunity to be the. Footprint right in, in Pennsylvania. So that is scale, not just for that market, but really when you look around at the surrounding region, um, and the opportunities for market to market, that is the market that we can actually build, um, the, the most or have an opportunity to build the most scale effectively in, um, in Arizona.
[00:26:42] Right. Similar, um, so, you know, the leading retail footprint, again, with an opportunity certainly to be the leading cultivator and processor manufacturer there if we wanted to be. Right. I mean, there’s some dynamics in Arizona, you got greenhouse stuff, so it’s a, a bit of a different, of a different animal on that front.
[00:26:59] Um, certainly on the indoor [00:27:00] side. Um, so, um, yeah, I mean certainly regulatory plays into it for sure.
[00:27:07]Bryan Fields: Seems like your team constantly has a focus on the future with the hub and smoke model and these other new markets that are soon to be unlocked. Is that where Cannabis 2.0 kind of fits. .
[00:27:16]Kim Rivers: So Cannabis 2.0 is, um, really, I think I’m very excited and the team has got a lot of energy behind it.
[00:27:23] Um, it means a, a few different things, right? Um, one, um, what we have definitely realized, and I think we as just people and you know, consumers, we’re all consumers, right? Have, have realized in the last, call it 12 to 24 months, certainly through covid, is the, um, importance of technology. And the importance of personalization.
[00:27:44] Um, right. And I mean, COVID did a lot of weird things to to us as a, as humans, I think. Um, and, um, you know, again, I think one, we all became more, um, technologically right, savvy, um, and, and leaned into to technology, [00:28:00] um, and leaned in tech to technology to connect and now have a bit of an expectation that, um, when you, um, you know, when you engage in commerce, that there is more and more personalization, right?
[00:28:13] To what our particular needs preferences, drivers are. and we expect kind of folks to know whether it’s conscious or unconscious, and whether it’s scary, right? Because things are all of a sudden popping up on your phone that, you know, you’re like, wait a minute. How did they know that I actually am in the market for whatever it is, right?
[00:28:32] Um, you know, or, or not. Um, you know, that that whole idea of hyperpersonalization, um, is real and, um, you know, important. And also this idea of unified commerce, meaning that, you know, commerce happens in a lot of different channels and, um, you know, cannabis is pretty old school. , really. Um, and the reason for that, there’s a lot of reasons for that.
[00:28:54] I think one of the primary reasons for that is because we don’t have the ability to, to lean [00:29:00] into some of these larger platforms, right? We are confined state by state, um, for the time being. And so the amount of, you know, um, you know, investment and, and what makes sense, um, sometimes it’s not even available, quite frankly, some of these, some of these platforms that you would typically utilize, um, if you’re in like the manufacturing and distribution C P G, um, arena.
[00:29:21] Um, but that’s all going to shift and I think it’s gonna shift pretty fast when it does. And so, um, for us, it’s thinking about. and we start and end our thinking with the customer. Everything that we talk about, it truly is, you know, begins with what’s that customer experience? How is this customer going to engage with us here?
[00:29:39] Right? What is, um, start to finish, right? That customer journey, um, and, and make and understanding, right, who our, who our customer is and, um, and meeting them where they’re at. And so, um, you know, cannabis 2.0 for us is building on and really leaning into the technology and the database that we’ve built.
[00:29:58] already. Um, so [00:30:00] we’ve been, I think, ahead of the curve for sure on the technology front. Um, I’ve had, you know, a technology or data person, um, high level on, within the C-suite. From our found from the very beginning. Um, we, we always believed that that was a really critical part of, um, how we were building the company.
[00:30:18] Um, we’ve integrated s a p, um, across the organization. We have a couple of states left to go, but, um, you know, having that as an enterprise e r P platform is a game changer. I mean, every large scale, um, again, distribution company has, whether it’s, you know, s a p or um, or, um, Um, Oracle, right? There’s one of the two.
[00:30:42] Um, and they wouldn’t work with us, so we had to go with SAP because we’re a cannabis company, . So, um, but now apparently they’re in the, they’re in the now they’re okay with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now they saw SAP was working with us, so now they’re fine. Um, but you know, that tech stack and how we’re able to build on, um, [00:31:00] on that, um, you know, we launched our consumer data platform, um, this year in key markets where we are, you know, again, I now know, right, that Brian, you’re a concentrate guy and you prefer shatter, and your favorite strains are, you know, X, Y, Z.
[00:31:18] And, but also you also. Every third purchase you also buy, right? Um, uh, maybe a cured live resin vape, right? Um, in similar strains or on a special occasion, you’ll level up and maybe you’ll buy a Blue River sauce cart or what, whatever it is. Um, we know that Brian is going to react and respond positively to these types of products and this type of messaging, and so Brian will get special exclusive information.
[00:31:49] When those products drop. Right. Inviting him in, um, letting him know ahead of time, Hey, you know, this Thursday at your local, you know, Tampa tree leave, right? There’s gonna be X, [00:32:00] Y, Z available for you. And so I think for us, just again, really being able to understand who Brian is, um, and how that may change over time, right?
[00:32:09] Because, and we see that a lot, you know, someone might start as a new customer with us, and then their tastes and preferences evolve, um, through their, you know, through their use and through their familiarity, um, with the product, um, the product. And so, um, yeah, I mean, I think that, um, and then also being ready for.
[00:32:28] When we are able to direct sell to customers, um, being ready for when we have optionality around distribution partners and where, and who and what that might look like. Um, you know, there’s a lot of decisions that are gonna need to be made, um, in pretty short order as a landscape changes. And just being thoughtful and strategic in terms of how we’re, how we’re positioned, um, and where we, where we want to go and where as importantly, where we do not want to go.
[00:32:58] Um, I think it’s very important to have [00:33:00] both of those, both of those defined, um, in a, in a strategic positioning conversation.
[00:33:06]Bryan Fields: Those data games are so challenging. As a marketer, I understand that and I respect that because you look for that personalization every single time. Because if, you know, let’s say for example, drew likes high end premium flower, but Kellen likes low end flour.
[00:33:17] If a partner wants to come in and do a limited drop, you can test it out with a demographic, you know, exactly works well, which makes you, he in certain areas. If you want to kind of go in there, understanding the demographics, but as well as kind of partnering the other side where someone wants to utilize, truly visit channel, you know exactly where you can.
[00:33:33] Do you think that’s an underappreciated aspect of what you’ve built so far at a scale standpoint? Um,
[00:33:39]Kim Rivers: I do, I think that it’s hard. Like I, I don’t think that a lot of folks out there really underst, you know, ne, which we don’t need to, right? We understand as consumers how it works, right? But we don’t necessarily understand how it’s, how it’s built and the, you know, requirements to sort of go into, to making it, um, making it feel seamless or making it, making it effective.
[00:33:57] And so, um, you know, yeah, [00:34:00] I, I, I do, but I think that it will become and continue to become, um, a, a game changer for us as it evolves. And, um, you know, we see it as definitely a strategic and a competitive advantage. I mean, in just a real world example, and this is just an easy one, and I’ve got a lot that are product oriented, but another that isn’t product oriented, that’s geographic oriented is when the hurricane hit in Florida.
[00:34:22] You know, our competitors had to. Basically all of the stores in a particular area at one time, and then open them all back up at one time. Um, because they didn’t have the ability to necessarily target or let folks know on an individual store by store basis what, you know, that particular store, what the condition of that particular store was for us.
[00:34:42] We actually were able to take it very specifically. I was able to tell you, so maybe your store was still closed, but maybe this store over here, right. 20 miles away was open and didn’t have any damage. So I was actually able to let you know that your, this store was open. You could get your medicine here and then let you know again right when your [00:35:00] store was coming back, if there were curfews that were in place, if we had to put in limited hours, right.
[00:35:04] We were able to, we were able to communicate, um, real time to folks that were in those affected areas. And I mean, I, I know that it certainly made a difference from a, from a business perspective, but it also made a difference for folks who. Needed medicine, right? I mean, they needed to get product. And so, I mean, in, in many of our markets, right, um, folks have, folks have foregone prescriptions, right?
[00:35:25] We, we are absolutely, our products are relied on, right? For, for very, um, you know, sometimes critical, um, medical issues. And so we, we never kind of lose sight of that, right? That we have a responsibility to, um, to, to make sure that folks have, have access to, uh, to products. And, um, that was on full display for sure.
[00:35:45] And our team did an amazing job. Of course. I mean, I joked with our team here at headquarters that they could open a weather channel. I mean, they had like, you know, 20 screens up. And I was like, are y’all like storm track? Did we, did we, did we run a weather plane to like fly into the, you know, the [00:36:00] heart pain?
[00:36:00] You know, I mean, it just was, it was incredible. It was incredible. I mean, they. 7:00 AM updates, you know, 8:00 AM I mean, it just was all through the night. I mean, it just was really, the team really did an an absolutely phenomenal, phenomenal job. I mean, we, I think had like 60 stores that were down and then were able to get reopened on a rolling basis within three days.
[00:36:19] So pretty, pretty intense.
[00:36:22]Bryan Fields: So slightly switching gears, Pepsi and Coke have competing products in similar categories. Obviously the Trickers and the dog walkers have similarities. I’d love to get your idea behind that. I think it’s a brilliant strategy. Understanding it fits exactly the demographic. You know exactly who that works and marketing wise is exactly what that is.
[00:36:40] You want to connect with the consumer and they do a good job. Both those products connect exactly with that. So you can give some insight behind that.
[00:36:47]Kim Rivers: Yeah, I mean, you know, and, um, and like Ben and I talked about, I’m like, it’s, it’s a mini pre-roll. Like there’s no one that has a corner on the market, of a mini pre-roll.
[00:36:56] I’m sorry. Um, you know, and expect that in our, [00:37:00] lots of our products have been, um, have been replicated, um, certainly across, across the markets that we, that we operate in. And so, um, you know, I think that for us, again, it’s looking at our portfolio of. Always, we’re constantly innovating. Um, we have a, a pretty robust r and d team, um, with dedicated, um, you know, scientists and, and researchers as well as, you know, folks that are just innovators in the, in, in the space who are, um, always looking at, you know, new formulations, new delivery devices, new ways to bring product to market.
[00:37:33] Um, because this market is, this industry is filled with innovation, and if you’re not innovating, um, you’re, you’re dying, right? Is what we say. Um, so it’s important to continue to move forward. Um, and you know, I think to your point, um, really, I think in, particularly in, um, in, in core markets, we need to make sure that our shelves are diverse and that we are meeting, again, meeting that customer where they’re at, we’re, we talk a lot [00:38:00] about, okay, what does the shelf look like?
[00:38:01] Right? How are we segmenting, what is this? Who is this product talking to? Right? What is, what is the persona of the person that’s gonna buy? This product, right? Do we need it? Do we not need it? Does it make sense? Does it not make sense? Um, and at what price point? At what, what’s the value proposition? And, um, you know, so, so yeah, it’s a, it’s a constant, a constant, um, you know, evolution.
[00:38:22] And that’s not only with our products, but also with brand partner products as well, um, that, you know, that are, that are coming into marketer that we’ve chosen to, to bring into market. When you
[00:38:31]Kellan Finney: guys are launching these new products in these various regions, do you launch ’em simultaneously in all region and knowing that like regions are gonna have different tastes or do you try to customize
[00:38:40]Bryan Fields: it per region?
[00:38:42]Kim Rivers: Yeah, it depends. So, um, you know, for example, we are doing a large relaunch and have been doing a large relaunch of, um, role one and the Roll one brand, which is a value brand. Different subcategories. Um, that’s obviously critical. Again, giving macro our mindset, [00:39:00] meet customers where they’re at, right? So role one is all about solid value.
[00:39:04] Um, you know, approachable price point with solid quality, right? So it’s very, it’s very, it’s communicated very straightforward. It’s available at. X price. You know, it’s an everyday kind of low price. We don’t discount it, but you know that it’s always available so you can rely on it. It’s one of those kind of trust and dependability brands that if you’re on a budget and you don’t have the time or the space to, you know, deal hunt, you know, among 20 different dispensary and you wanna have a home dispensary, you like that feeling of coming in and people knowing who you are and really having that relationship.
[00:39:39] Um, you know, our, our role, one line is perfect for you. Um, because, you know, it’s al it’s just, it’s always gonna be available. It is what it is. It’s great product. Um, at a, again, a very approachable price point. So that line has definitely been launched, um, nationally. Um, you know, and, and the rollout, um, is uh, has been very.
[00:39:58] very well received. [00:40:00] Um, and you know, I always remind folks that, you know, value products doesn’t necessarily mean value margin. Right. Um, so, um, you know, we’re really happy and excited to see, um, to see that line doing as well as it has been doing.
[00:40:15]Bryan Fields: The internet has a working theory that operating in limited license states isn’t A U S P and that once MSOs don’t operate in these market conditions, I guess federal legalization, the business model will be obsolete.
[00:40:25] What do you say to that?
[00:40:27]Kim Rivers: Yeah, I mean, I think that part of the business model maybe, right? Um, depending, and I think that, and I’m gonna give you a very, like, and this is where the lawyer brain comes in. Um, I think that it depends, right? And what I mean by that is it depends. I don’t know that I see a scenario on the federal level where.
[00:40:49] you know, um, point of sale is completely left, wide open. Um, I think that when we sort of and study right, um, the rollback [00:41:00] of prohibition from an alcohol perspective, there was definitely a very um, patterned, um, you know, distribution network across the US with some states owning it through their governments actually, right?
[00:41:14] Um, when you have the, in certain states, right, they’re state issued kind of like a Canada does, right? With their state issued, um, you know, alcohol distributors, um, other states that had very, you know, tight controls on how stores and where stores, and I mean, even in certain states, um, even today, right where liquor can be sold versus versus, um, you know, beer and wine, how it can be delivered to your home.
[00:41:38] You know, whether it can be delivered to your home. That some of that actually still is held over today, which is crazy. Um, thinking about how long ago that was. So I don’t know that it’s gonna be, Hey, um, you know, it’s, um, it’s available anywhere and everywhere. Um, you know, but I think that it’s my job as c e o in our job as a, as an organization [00:42:00] to be prepared for lots of different scenarios.
[00:42:01] And so when you hear me talking about Cannabis 2.0, when you hear me talking about unified commerce, which is really omnichannel with some other layers, right? When you hear us talking about how would we think about direct to consumer, how would we think about distribution, how would we think about, um, you know, where we would want to be positioned and how we can lean into our expertise, which I think that for us, what’s fairly unique is that we can lean in either way or both, right?
[00:42:30] Largest retail platform can lean there, right? Largest supply chain distribution network. Really deep in the markets that we’re in. We can lean there, right? And it would just expand our, um, expand our, um, distribution area, right, if you will, across that region. And so, um, That’s how we’re thinking about it is, um, you know, on day one, um, I’m pretty sure we’re still the only organization that has the scale that we have in the cannabis space.
[00:42:59] So [00:43:00] regardless of if anybody else is able to come in and compete or not, we’re s we’re still sitting there in a, in a pretty enviable position, um, off the block, which, um, listen, I love to be first mover, so it’s just first mover all over again. Um, as far as, as far as I’m concerned. Um, so we, we like the setup kind of regardless.
[00:43:21]Bryan Fields: Yeah. I, I I think you’re definitely positioned your team for the upcoming changes and whenever that happens, it’s, it’s, it’s remained to be seen. So let’s talk about one of the areas that you’re really pushing the most, and that’s Florida adult use. Can you kind of give the, the current status of where it is?
[00:43:35]Kim Rivers: Sure. So, um, the, uh, Florida adult use, we, um, are supporters of course, of the ballot initiative that’s been filed. Um, you, it’s Florida’s a little bit, every state is different in terms of their ballot requirements. Um, Florida is is one of those states where you have to have a certain number of signatures to receive Supreme Court review.
[00:43:55] Supreme Court reviews the language for single subject and. , [00:44:00] lack of ambiguity. Um, and then assuming you get the total number of signatures, um, then you’re on the ballot. And so, um, there are, I believe we reported, I wanna say it’s like close to 500,000 signatures non that are not validated, that have been received.
[00:44:16] Um, we estimate about 65% of those or so, um, will be validated, um, with a fallout rate. Um, and so we should be pretty close to Supreme Court review thresholds at this point. Um, and it’s moving right along. Um, you know, I would not anticipate the signatures is, is necessarily of, from what I’ve seen anyway, um, in terms of the response.
[00:44:40] So, um, feel, feel pretty good about where it sits. Um, and, you know, looking forward to, to moving it forward. Um, I would say that probably one, um, , you know, kind of, I’ve heard a lot of obviously conversation. Well, why is it structured this way? And, you know, why doesn’t it [00:45:00] have a, B and C in it? Um, and I will, I will tell you this, I would love nothing more than to be able to say and tell, you know, the, the legislature, this is exactly how it needs to go.
[00:45:12] And, um, you know, you need to issue X number of licenses and at least, you know, 50% need to have, you know, social equity component and, you know, we wanna include home grow, and you know, we wanna all of the things right. I would love to do that. Um, in Florida that would absolutely fail Supreme Court review, um, the court, and particularly this court.
[00:45:34] Which I think we all have learned a lesson that courts can be political, um, in the last year, news flasher. So, um, yeah, I mean, you know, our, our court in Florida is very conservative and, um, it has, you know, it’s going to be strictly, um, read for single subject. And, you know, the single subject that we are addressing is, you know, adult use cannabis, um, in the state of Florida.
[00:45:59][00:46:00] Um, it defers all of those other decisions to the legislature, um, which the court, um, you know, views as the policy making body for the state. Um, and so that’s where those battles will be fought. Um, they, they will be fight in the legislature. Um, and I fully expect there will be robust conversation on all of those topics.
[00:46:20] Um, it does contemplate additional licenses. Um, it does not require vertical. it, you know, but it does grandfather in existing operators and our, our existing, um, our existing operations. And so that’s, you know, when we tried to balance and also keep it very focused on, um, on a single topic that’s, uh, and give the legislature some, some opportunity to address the other issues.
[00:46:51] That’s where it land. ,
[00:46:52]Bryan Fields: that’s gotta be an extremely challenging balance, understanding of what is necessary in order to push it forward, but also internally knowing how important having social [00:47:00] equity and home grow is for just the, the overall industry. So how do you balance that and, and can truly do additional things to support that going forward?
[00:47:08] Yeah,
[00:47:09]Kim Rivers: so I mean, um, so two things. One, um, we’ve always been huge supporters of both home grow and social equity. Um, on the home grow side. Um, we are and have actively, um, contributed to initiatives that attempted to, to put, you know, home grow on the ballot, although, albeit in a broader construct that ultimately got shot down by the Supreme Court, um, because it was layered.
[00:47:38] Um, we also, I mean, we sell clones in Massachusetts. We have, I’ve outwardly said, and will continue to say that I think home grow is, Basically almost a fundamental right. I think that there are folks who absolutely need to grow their own for a variety of reasons, whether it’s, they can only utilize a certain strain, whether or not they have a certain illness that [00:48:00] makes, you know, the way that commercial cultivation works not work for them and their particular conditions, whether it be a financial issue, whatever.
[00:48:08] Um, there are certain, there are certain reasons why folks need to have the opportunity to grow their own, um, for personal consumption. I, I’m strong believer in that. I mean, and listen, our original roots as an, as an organization are with, um, folks that are in the nursery and farming industry. And so, you know, I remember so vividly one of our early board meetings, um, before we were public and the conversation around home grow and folks were a little like, oh, I don’t know, you know, isn’t this bad for, for us?
[00:48:38] And I mean, it’s the whole conversation around, I looked, one of it’s the whole conversation around like, okay, folks can go and I mean you, I can grow tomatoes. That doesn’t mean that I’m not going to the grocery store and buying tomatoes. I mean, I, I killed tomato. I can’t, I can’t, I mean, I’m not, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t grow tomatoes.
[00:48:53] Um, you know, and so, and I’m not gonna have, right. Most people aren’t gonna have a garden filled with [00:49:00] all of the variety and all the different form factors and extraction and that, and that they can go to their store and, and get. So I just don’t see it as, I actually see it as a market increase as opposed to a market detractors from a business perspective.
[00:49:13] Because I think how awesome, if you’ve got a neighbor who’s growing their own, brings some over, shares their tomatoes, or in Florida their oranges with you, and then all of a sudden you’re like, oh, this is awesome, but I’m not gonna go next door and ask, you know, Bobby, for some more oranges, you know, every, every week when I want some.
[00:49:31] Right? What happens? That person goes to the store. So it’s just not. Like it’s gonna be okay, . It’s kinda like my message on home grow. Um, and again, I think that it’s, I think that it’s important for folks to have the ability to do that, um, on, um, social equity clearly as the only female c e o in this, in this industry, in the M S O kind of world.
[00:49:52] Um, it is absolutely something that I’m incredibly passionate about and have been since we, since we [00:50:00] started. Um, you know, you can certainly talk to. , Ross McCarthy, who’s the, the founder of, um, minorities for medical Marijuana. She and I worked the halls of the Florida, um, Florida legislature to get into statute, the, you know, the provision that we could get in, which had to do with the Pigford, um, class license as well as funding for Florida and, and M University, um, as part of the licensing fees in the, in the, um, Florida program.
[00:50:27] And originally that a hundred percent was going to the University of Florida. And because they were an agricultural school, which I was like, hold on a minute, we’ve got two agricultural schools in, in the state, and one of them is right here in Tallahassee and is, um, an HB H B C U. So I really, um, . You know, I would say walking in the walk and not just talking the talk has always been something that’s been very important to me.
[00:50:49] Um, and I think that it’s really important for us to look first inward because I think that, you know, we can all do things externally and we do do things externally that are very important and meaningful. [00:51:00] But I think internally it’s also, again, that walk the walk, um, and not just talk. The talk is critical and so, , you know, investing in our, our people, giving them space to bring their full selves to the workplace.
[00:51:13] Um, you know, we have a variety of ERGs that are very active, um, within our organization, um, that we look to empower for them to tell us, you know, what are the things that, um, they wanna see from us, right? What’s imp, what are, what are important, what’s important to those groups? Um, what should we be investing with?
[00:51:31] Who should we be partnering with? Um, you know, what, um, what can we do to help elevate, um, you know, their trajectory within the organization. Um, we have over, you know, approximately and from a female perspective, obviously that’s something very near and dear to my heart. Um, I’ve said, and we’ll continue to say, I, one of my goals is to, is to have truly be the place, um, for women and, um, who wanna be.
[00:51:53] Within this, within this space, um, to, to come and, um, to elevate. Um, over [00:52:00] 35% of our leadership team at TRU Leave are female. 50% of our board is female, and approximately it’s like 48% of our, of our entire, um, workforce is female. And so we are, um, definitely, again, um, we, we like to, to measure, um, we like to make sure that we’re, um, we’re on track and that we’re, um, we’re meeting our stated objectives in those areas.
[00:52:23] as it relates to externally. We do a ton. Um, we are very focused on, um, our diversity supplier initiative. Um, that’s one area where we feel like we can make a big impact, not just from a direct cannabis, but also all of the ancillary businesses that feed into, um, what, you know, propels our organization forward.
[00:52:42] And so making sure that those relationships, again, we’re, we’re tracking, we’re accountable, and we are purposely investing and, you know, giving opportunity for those business to partner with a large scale organization in a meaningful way, um, across, you know, lots and lots of markets. Um, that’s one thing that I’m really, really proud of.
[00:52:59] We’re [00:53:00] members of tons of organizations, which, um, you know, we have of course our, um, uh, E E S G report that I would point folks to, if you’re interested in knowing kind of, again, additional information about who we partner with and how we partner with them. Um, I think we’re, we’re one of the only cannabis companies that have released an E S G report.
[00:53:19] Again, in the spirit of transparency and making sure that. When we say something that we actually are held accountable, um, to do what we, what we said we were going to do.
[00:53:30]Bryan Fields: One of the things that I’m really impressed about is the Disabled American Verns Jobs Fair that opened recently with the medical cannabis facility in Georgia.
[00:53:37] Congratulations about that one. Thank you. Can you share a little bit more about that initiative and why it’s so important? .
[00:53:43]Kim Rivers: Yeah. I mean, um, listen, working with veterans is again, one of our key, um, one of our key groups that has been important to us from when we, you know, from when we initially began, um, began true leave and making sure that we’re not just again, you know, [00:54:00] donating or celebrating on Veterans Day or Right.
[00:54:04] Um, kind of giving a wink and a nod, um, on Memorial Day or whatever, right? Like, um, I think that it’s, for us, it’s really. Purposefully, um, investing in the people and giving them an opportunity to be a part of this incredible industry. And so, um, you know, that organization has been phenomenal to work with and we’re really excited about having, um, the opportunity to employ more, um, disabled veterans, um, again, in a meaningful way.
[00:54:30] Um, that’s, again, we’re walking the walk as opposed to just talking the talk. And so I think for us, they go hand in hand and, um, you know, it’s, it’s fantastic and I. How we invest is also important, right? I mean, we set up shop our first, um, you know, our, our first grow operation is in Quincy, Florida, which is a majority minority community.
[00:54:50] Um, we’re the number one employer in that state, in that, um, in that county now, um, you know, Holyoke and Massachusetts, same thing, you know, in Georgia. We chose to, to really, [00:55:00] to stand up our initial production, uh, facilities in rural, you know, in a more rural community in Adel. Um, they’re super happy to have us.
[00:55:07] We’re super happy to be there. So being thoughtful in terms of how we as an organization also can be a change agent, um, within some of these communities. Um, again, there’s, there’s lots of ripple effects, um, to what we do and just being mindful and purposeful about, um, about those, um, from the outset is, is, is key.
[00:55:26] Let’s do a
[00:55:27]Bryan Fields: quick rapid fire. Okay. Best guess, what year does adult use sales in Georgia
[00:55:32]Kim Rivers: start? Adult use in Georgia? Oh lord. Um, . Y’all gimme a minute. Like we’re trying to launch medical .
[00:55:42]Bryan Fields: Man. It’s, it’s an internet question. I dunno. I dunno.
[00:55:46]Kim Rivers: I’m not, I got, I don’t know. Uh, okay, so we’re, we’re medical Now it’s gonna be 2023.
[00:55:52] Uh, I’m gonna go 20. 27. 2020.
[00:55:56]Bryan Fields: That’s
[00:55:56]Kellan Finney: a good guess. .
[00:55:57]Bryan Fields: That’s a good guess. Your go-to [00:56:00] karaoke song.
[00:56:01]Kim Rivers: Ooh. Ice. Ice Baby.
[00:56:03]Bryan Fields: Maryland. Pennsylvania, Georgia. How would you rank these markets 20 years from
[00:56:08]Kim Rivers: now? Oh my God. Um, it’s all gonna be one big market because we’re gonna be looking at, um, at some, some sort of federal legalization at that point.
[00:56:18] Ah, wealth played
[00:56:19]Bryan Fields: your most, your, your most consumed cannabis product.
[00:56:22]Kim Rivers: Ooh, a flower. Um, for sure. Um, I’m a indica leading hybrid or an indica girl, so, um, Hmm. I’ve been really enjoying Member Mary lately. All
[00:56:34]Bryan Fields: right. In your opinion, which event is more disruptive to the cannabis industry? Interstate commerce or federal legalization?
[00:56:43]Kim Rivers: they both happen at the same
[00:56:44]Bryan Fields: time. . Which, which event is more beneficial to truly? So I think it’s
[00:56:51]Kim Rivers: the same. I think it’s the same. I think it’s the same effect, unless we’re saying that federal legalization somehow doesn’t lead to interstate commerce. Well, so I guess I’m [00:57:00] confused. This is again, lawyer brain.
[00:57:01] Lawyer brain. You gotta help me. Like one was
[00:57:03]Bryan Fields: thinking interstate commerce could happen sooner given what’s happening in New York and California. So
[00:57:07]Kim Rivers: I wasn’t sure. Oh, you mean the lawsuit? The lawsuit situation? Is that what you’re saying? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , I would say I give that a long shot. Um, , I’m hopeful over here.
[00:57:18] Okay. Um, and I’m not here to burst a bubble on. It’s alright. It’s already bursted es um, Tuesday. Um mm. So, okay. So if we’re thinking the interstate commerce can happen first, um, yeah, I think, I think both are, I think both are amazing, right? I mean, I think that’s, we’ve been, we’ve been preparing and I think we’re, we’re gonna be as ready as anyone if not more so.
[00:57:40] So, um, you know, I think that, um, certainly with federal legalization, what we would hope if federal, when federal legalization, this is, I’m gonna say federal legalization cuz here’s why federal legalization, um, you get also the benefit of there’s gonna be some change to the tax structure, right? So profitability is unlocked.
[00:57:58] You’re gonna be able to upload, [00:58:00] we’re gonna be able to uplift, right? Which we’re prepared to uplift immediately. And we’re a form S3 filer. Um, this year’s, our SOX year, we’re gonna be through all the, all the, you know, Hoops or whatever that we’re gonna have to jump through. Um, so we would be able to uplift.
[00:58:14] So I think our ability to access capital, which already is fairly high among our, our peer set, um, I think in increases dramatically. We have lots of optionality. I think investors, you know, um, come in institutional investors. So I think it changes the landscape from an investment perspective. And, um, you know, I think then we’re able to, you wanna talk about being able or being in a position to scale?
[00:58:37] Um, I think it just, it puts us, I mean, if you take away two a d e in and of itself, that just changes, um, the financial and the flexibility that we have. Um, from a decision making and a choice of investment, um, perspective, exponentially
[00:58:51]Bryan Fields: most makes it really hard for anyone to catch you. A , most bullish product category over the next five years.[00:59:00]
[00:59:00]Kim Rivers: Over the next five years. Five years. So when you say five years, I think that there’s landscape changes, um, from a, from a national perspective. So, um, flower’s always gonna be pretty important I think for every cannabis company. It’s your calling card from a quality perspective. And even if folks aren’t flower consumers, they still want to know and feel confident that you’re able to grow flour, um, and, and quality flour.
[00:59:26] Um, so I, I think flour will remain and is the most familiar product for folks that have ever experienced cannabis in the past. So it’s gonna be one, or, and this is gonna be interesting, but I think you got flour, but I think you’re gonna see a big, um, boom in edible. Um, particularly as you know, um, all of us have been experimenting, right?
[00:59:47] And we have a line of nano gels, fast acting, uh, really when, as soon as we can get, which we’re really close, get that, um, the pacing and meaning, the onset and the last, like the, the [01:00:00] really you want faster onsite, shorter, in my opinion, shorter. impact time. So in other words, right, I think challenge with edibles is it’s a slower onset and it lasts for a really long time for some people, right?
[01:00:11] Six to six, six hours. It depends on your metabolism, all of that stuff. So I think that if you’re able to pace it, so it can be more of a social setting. Um, so when you think about, right, like, okay, if we’re drinking alcohol, it’s, you know, you’re not gonna be, it’s, you’re up and then you’re back, you know, you’re kind of here and here.
[01:00:30] So how can we, how can we kind of match and mirror so that, again, in a social sit situation, it’s, it’s, folks understand where they’re gonna be. Um, I think it’s a lot of uncertainty right now. And that sort of, that same conversation that was had a number of years ago around like vape and dosing and like how that in titration, right?
[01:00:49] And really, you know, you saw the metered vape stuff coming out and right. Like really trying to control that. I think if we can get that more dialed in on the edible side, it’s really a [01:01:00] exploding category, um, for folks for a lot of reasons. Favorite Blink 180 2
[01:01:05]Bryan Fields: Song.
[01:01:07]Kim Rivers: Oh, come on.
[01:01:12] So, Brian, Brian asked me at, um, at uh, um, at, um, in Vegas right about my, about something that folks don’t know about me. And it, I told him I’m gonna see, I’m gonna go see Blink 180 2 next year. I have a lot of favorite Blink 180 2 songs, and I feel like if I give you, uh, everyone has a
[01:01:32]Bryan Fields: favorite. No, it’s tough though.
[01:01:34] What
[01:01:35]Kim Rivers: album? It’s, it’s hard. It’s hard, right? Um, I was just listening to, hold on, let me just see what comes up first on my phone. How about that?
[01:01:43]Bryan Fields: Spotify. Spotify will tell
[01:01:44]Kim Rivers: us . Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because I literally was just, um, was just, uh, like all in blink 180 2 after we had that, um, after we had that, uh, that conversation.
[01:01:57] And it was pretty funny. So Hold on one second. . [01:02:00] I’m gonna tell you one second. Let’s see. Blink 180 2. I am also really like, so it’s a, it’s a toss up. It’s all right. All the small things. And then what’s my age again? I really like that one too, though. You can’t go wrong with the classics. You can’t. I, yeah.
[01:02:22] It’s em of the state. That’s my, that album. I would play it on repeat with the disks on my hood of my. You know, little MX three that I drove around like a bat outta hell with my Cardone, like in the thing. Yeah. I was one of those kids. That’s awesome. Jack’s speech.
[01:02:39]Bryan Fields: Totally. You can share Tracker with three people.
[01:02:42] Dead or alive. Who are they? . Ooh, that’s
[01:02:46]Kim Rivers: a good one. . Oh, three people alive. Three people alive. Hmm. That’s really hard. Um hmm. Uh, rbg [01:03:00] for sure, for sure. Um, without a doubt. I’ve got her, I’ve got a painting of her in my office. I would say, um, rbg, I would say maybe Eliza Hamilton. Would be a good one for me. And alive or dead.
[01:03:28] Hmm. Sarah Blakely, Spinx founder, right?
[01:03:31]Bryan Fields: Yeah, that’s, you might need something longer than a tracker though. That’s gonna be . It’s gonna be some stories of that one. under the radar state, you think investors are overlooking that you’re most
[01:03:44]Kim Rivers: bullish on under the radar state? Um, I feel like this is an end round of like, where are you looking to expand next into, but rather, I can’t answer, but you’re trying to put it in a way that I can’t answer it.
[01:03:57]Bryan Fields: Um, maybe,
[01:03:59]Kim Rivers: maybe, [01:04:00] maybe. Um, I think that, um, I think, I think Georgia’s gonna be great. I think Georgia’s gonna be great. I think folks are gonna have to be a little patient, which the sector is not good at being, um, from an investor perspective. Um, but Georgia reminds me a lot of the Florida setup. a lot. And so, um, I think that, um, incremental is actually, I think, helpful in growing a sustainable market.
[01:04:28] I think sometimes the markets that come out like super, you know, fast and flashy, um, tend to, right, they don’t have it necessarily the, the ramp and the buy-in. And I, I think that they may tend to fade a little bit faster as well. And so I think that when you’re building that base kind of over time and you’re bringing folks along with you as you’re growing in the business simultaneously, it really allows for, again, deeper connectivity and for folks to understand the brand, um, at a, at a different level.
[01:04:59]Bryan Fields: When you [01:05:00] started your journey in the cannabis space, what did you get right? And more importantly, what did you get wrong? Oh
[01:05:04]Kim Rivers: God, I’m a really bad capsule. Filler really bad.
[01:05:09]Bryan Fields: It’s hard,
[01:05:10]Kim Rivers: bad, like way bad. Um, it leaked everywhere it was anyway. And then I also am not great at inventory. not great at that either.
[01:05:20] Um, the numbers would never come out the same when I would count in the back. Um, and, um, I would say I, early on, um, you know, one of the hardest things being in the seat is, um, we have moved from a 10 person, you know, not even a hundred thousand dollars company to a 9,000, um, You know, billion dollar company in a very short period of time in six years.
[01:05:55] So the talent, um, and the requirements to balance folks that [01:06:00] have experience within your organization, um, with the, you know, needs of continuous upgrading of talent is, um, it’s hard and, but it’s necessary. And I would say, um, you know, I underestimated, um, that the need to really, you know, understand that and the pace at which we move, um, folks can outgrow, I mean, or the position rather, can outgrow folks relatively quickly.
[01:06:27] I mean, what you do today and what where we are six months from now can be two completely different places. And um, so I think that, um, you know, really. Learning that lesson and understanding. Um, and, and, but it’s also super critical that you have people that understand the organization at a deep level and have been through that, some of that scaling and have been, and have been through, um, that journey with you as well.
[01:06:54] And so finding that right mix and that right balance, because I mean, let’s be clear, right? Georgia’s a startup [01:07:00] market, like it’s super entrepreneurial there, right? I mean, we’re starting from, from zero. And so we have to build that market and need that type of a spirit, um, within that market to be able to be competitive, right?
[01:07:13] Um, and that’s happening at the same time that, you know, Florida’s happening at the same time that right? Um, these other markets, Pennsylvania and, you know, Connecticut’s about to go adult use. And so each of these markets is at very different growth stages. Um, and so having the right team that can appropriately, um, be deployed and, and understands what it takes.
[01:07:36] in that market at this time. Right. Um, and is, is really, is really, um, challenging but also exciting. Before we do predictions,
[01:07:45]Bryan Fields: we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson, learn to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?
[01:07:53]Kim Rivers: Oh. Um,
[01:07:58] as a woman, just sit at the [01:08:00] table
[01:08:02]Bryan Fields: prediction time, Kim, with more and more states coming online, eventually we will have legalization across the United States. When that happens, which region in the United States will be the biggest region? ,
[01:08:16]Kim Rivers: uh, I mean the Southeast for sure.
[01:08:23]Bryan Fields: Ke you wanna take a swing?
[01:08:27]Kellan Finney: Uh, that’s a tough question, right.
[01:08:29] Um. , you know, I am gonna take a very different approach and I’m gonna say the central region. And I, my reasoning right is I am from Colorado, but I also think that as states legalize, you see this influx of border states that don’t have legal access, uh, enter. Right. And I think that in order to maintain that, you’re gonna need some sort.
[01:08:54] Tourist destination. And I do believe, like the mountains will always be a tourist destination for people [01:09:00] to come ski. I get the beaches down there too, but I’m just gonna kind of, uh, play for my home field here or home Team. ,
[01:09:06]Kim Rivers: you have 130 million tourists a year in Florida. What are you saying right now?
[01:09:11]Bryan Fields: He’s reaching, he’s just hoping he’s, I’m, I didn’t wanna take the same answer as you. Come on, . . Okay. I guess I’m gonna take my home stay as well. So northeast for us, I, I think the Northeast has a. To, to compete big time. Unfortunately, we haven’t gotten started in the, the hopeful way that I’d like. And obviously we’re recording here at the end of 2022 and New York is still uh, figuring it out, which hopefully they get that photo op in like they promised us.
[01:09:38] And I, I think there’s big opportunities here in the northeast. And I think once people in the older demographics specifically get, kind of get a grasp on cannabis and recognize it’s not like their college stays cannabis, I think it’ll just change their mind because I think they’ll move away from the pharmaceuticals.
[01:09:50] They’ll put down the booze a little less, and I think they’ll adopt a more healthier product. But I think they’ll help them unlock a just completely different level of their life.
[01:09:58]Kim Rivers: Is that before or after they move [01:10:00] to the Southeast ? That’s fair.
[01:10:05]Bryan Fields: Probably after just asking. Just kidding. Probably up probably after. Probably after. So, so Kim, for our listeners, they wanna get in touch, they wanna buy True Leaf products. Where can they find.
[01:10:14]Kim Rivers: Oh my gosh. Go online to www.truleave.com and all of our dispensaries are listed there for you. Um, we have, um, locations across 11 markets.
[01:10:24] Um, and they’re, they’re there for you. You can actually type in your location and it will tell you where your closest Tru leave location is, uh, is available for you. Awesome.
[01:10:35]Bryan Fields: Thanks so much for taking the time. This was fun. Thanks.
