Why operating in California is a different type of challenge
California’s kind of special.[…]If you said you’re number four in Florida, that kind of means you’re last. In California, it means you’re better than 1,600 other brands nipping at your heels every day trying to kick you off the shelves. I sometimes say [that] California lives in the future. Our consumers are some of the most educated out there.
[It’s been] 27 years since medical cannabis happened, and I think sometimes people think I’m arrogant about California. [It’s] not that at all. It’s just [that] if you had someone who had been practicing football for 27 years and someone [who] had been practicing football for two years, who would you expect to be better? This is what we do out here.
This is where the culture comes from and the genetics and the people and the operators. And so, all [of] it’s super competitive. We think competition breeds excellence, and we’re happy to be out here doing what we’re doing.
On interstate commerce and the dormant clause
The dormant commerce clause ensures a farmer that the entire nation is his market, right?
So, what they’re saying is you can’t say, “I don’t want California cannabis,” right? That’s unconstitutional. Think about what happens, in the national market, when a tariff happens. Is it ever just one way? No. It’s a tariff war. So, if Florida says, “Hey, we don’t want California weed because we have weed growers,” what are the odds that California is going to say, “We don’t want Florida oranges because we’ve got orange growers”? So, those things are all equivalent.
Graham Farrar, President at Glass House Brands
Applying Big Agricultural technologies to cannabis
Agriculture is doing things well, and we are some of the first ones to apply it to cannabis. Our ebb and flood floors? We have a bay there. We harvest about 28,000 plants a week, which means we need to veg and replant 28,000 plants. So, if you think about that, there’s kind of three ways you could do that.
You could irrigate it from the top, but that’s bad for pathogens and inconsistent and high labor. You could put emitters in it, but 28,000 times in and 28,000 times out? That is a ton of resources. Or you can use an ebb and flood floor, which is basically a two-inch-deep swimming pool. So, what we do is we flood this floor up, and the plants absorb all the water they need from the bottom—totally consistent, zero labor.
It’s automated, and then, when they’re done, we’re done. They drain the water back off. We capture the water and the fertilizer—both expensive and valuable commodities, both for business and for the environment. We clean it and then we put it on the bay next to it.
Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.
Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.
Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.
Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
This week we are joined by Kristina Adduci, Founder & CEO of House of Puff, to discuss :
Pairing Art & Cannabis
Personalizing the First-time Experience
Bringing Style to Cannabis
and so much more
House of Puff designs approachable, luxe products & content to help the next generation of consumers. Our sophisticated puffware is made up of curated objects you can be proud of. Think of each piece as your own little work of art. Relax with them after a long day’s work, display them as part of your newest tablescape, or throw them in your bag when you’re on the go.
House of Puff replaces stigma with empowerment. We leverage our deep understanding of the role art plays in advancing cultural and social movements. House of Puff was built to be a vehicle for the future of the plant—to evolve and elevate the conversation about everything from consumption rituals to criminal justice reform.
Contact us directly at [email protected] Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24 Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney
[00:00:00] What’s
[00:00:02]Bryan Fields: up guys? Welcome back to the episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields, and with me as always is Ke Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest, Christina Lopez, Ucci CEO House of Pup. Christina, thanks for taking the time. How you doing today? Pump
[00:00:15]Kristina Lopez Adduci: to be here. Too many teenies last night, but excited to be with you guys.
[00:00:19]Bryan Fields: I don’t know if there’s ever too many Teenies. Kan. How are you doing?
[00:00:22]Kellan Finney: I’m doing really well, doing really well. Excited to talk to Christina and you know, help educate the East Coast. Right? That’s what
[00:00:27]Bryan Fields: the West Coasters are here for. That’s that’s right. So Christina, just for the record, your location please.
[00:00:33]Kristina Lopez Adduci: I am based in, our office is based in New York, but I am currently in Connecticut. So East Coaster. Yes.
[00:00:43]Bryan Fields: Uh, I think we’re doing it ke I think we’re gonna have to go back and tally it up to the end of the year, and I’m gonna think, I’ll let you know. I, I think we’ve gotten you, I’m here for it. . So, so Christina, far listeners that are unfamiliar brought you, Can you give a little background about
[00:00:53]Kristina Lopez Adduci: yourself?
[00:00:54] Sure. Uh, so name’s Christina. Born and raised in good old [00:01:00] New Jersey. Uh, grew up in a strict Puerto Rican household. Um, Uh, just, you know, my dad worked at ShopRite for 27 years, cutting cold cuts. So always be nice to your deliman guys. Um, and my mom decided later in life that she was gonna quit her real estate job and become a physician.
[00:01:20] So I say that because that sort of just lays the groundwork of like who I am as a person and my entrepreneurial like journey and, and just being a risk taker and just being, that’s just part of my dna. Um, and I also grew up with two, uh, grandparents who were Pentecostal pastors. So all this to say, um, I was no fun as a kid and was never exposed to cannabis.
[00:01:46] Uh, and you know, was a goody two shoes, dare kid. And I didn’t really consume cannabis until later in life. I was, you know, went to grad school. Graduated that I was gonna work in politics. Glad [00:02:00] that didn’t work out. Uh, and went to go work for the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s research. And that was sort of the first time, uh, I was exposed to hearing about cannabis for therapeutic and medicinal benefits.
[00:02:13] Um, if you know anything about Parkinson’s disease, some. Some patients suffer from dyskinesia with the shaking and, um, a lot a host of other things. And it was just wonderful to see, um, millions of dollars going into research for Parkinson’s patients. And so, you know, living in New York, I, uh, started an art magazine, some art collector and little by little I, uh, so I left the Michael J.
[00:02:36] Fox Foundation, did the magazine full time. We had it in Miami, New York and la and little by little my anxiety and not sleeping at night really became, was hindering my, my performance. And I wanted to get off the big pharma train and I decided, Oh man, I think I’m gonna try cannabis. And so my boyfriend at the time, who’s [00:03:00] now my husband, uh, he came over with this just collegiate gross bong, and I’m just like, Oh my God, I cannot believe my first time is gonna be out of this like, just ugly thing that I just wanna throw in the back of my closet.
[00:03:14] So the pros were that I loved, it was instantaneous. The, when I consumed, um, I felt. Like myself, and I felt, um, more creative and I was sleeping better. And it was just such a beautiful awakening, if you will. Obviously the con was this like gross, like phallic thing that was sitting on my coffee table and I thought, All right, well I have this Rolodex of artists that I’ve worked with.
[00:03:42] I think I’ve interviewed over 1500 artists and thought, let’s bring. Art into cannabis, right? Cannabis heals, Art Heals. I love beautiful shit. So let’s just like bring it all together. And that’s sort of the story of how House of Puff was born.
[00:03:58]Bryan Fields: So how, how long [00:04:00] after that inception of that first experience, I’m assuming after you consumed and continued consuming, but how, how quickly after from a timeframe perspective did you decide, hey, like House of Puff, here’s an idea, this is something I’m gonna go for.
[00:04:12] It
[00:04:12]Kristina Lopez Adduci: was about, Six months and I kept consuming and I liked it so much, but I did not like the, the experience. I didn’t like the, you know, I went down to St. Mark’s and tried to find a pretty pipe pink pipe that I could fit in my purse. I couldn’t find it. I went online like, you know, this is a, you know, back 5, 6, 7 years ago.
[00:04:35] So the green rush was just starting to happen and you were seeing a lot of accessories come to market, but nothing that sort of fit who I was as a stylish doll, as a woman and as a woman of color, right? A lot of these things I was ordering online for starters came in like CD packaging, so, Check. No, that’s that, that didn’t make me feel good about my experience.
[00:04:57] But they were also super confusing to use. Like, [00:05:00] which end of the pipe am I lighting again? I’m a, I’m a new consumer. Um, so I thought, all right, right off the bat, I started reaching out to artists, ceramicists, uh, contemporary artists, start licensing their artwork to put them on, you know, rolling papers, et cetera.
[00:05:15] But the second part of that was like, I need to educate everybody around me. Like the women I were, I was talking to like, Yeah, we, we like cannabis, but like, you know, how did you even use a one hitter or a bong? Like again, back to basics, right? Um, and so it took about a year for me to do an mvp, which we called our lip kit, and it came with the one hit.
[00:05:38] That was pink. Uh, that Abbu got rest for salt. Thought, thought was a lipstick holder. Um, and, and instructions and a beautiful candle that we teamed up with, uh, Joya out in Brooklyn. They designed scents for Nike and Thomas Keller and all these wonderful people. They did a custom scent for us and we sold out, and then I found out I was pregnant with twins , [00:06:00] and everything came to a screeching halt.
[00:06:05] Um, and so I decided, um, you know, I got, I went on tv, I got all this press, um, and then I had to go on bed rest, and I thought, All right, let me just, For the next year, sit in this bed and figure out how to scale this. Right. Cuz I didn’t really know that much about cannabis. And one of the first things I did was, you know, I’ve reached out to people who I knew in New York who were, you know, like occlusive.
[00:06:30] Those were like the first, you know, women to embrace me and sort of guide me, you know, on this journey. Um, and then it didn’t really take off until 2020. Right before the pandemic, I brought on our coo, Holly Hager, and uh, that’s when the magic really started to happen. You wanna
[00:06:47]Kellan Finney: talk us through that first mvp?
[00:06:49] What was the kind of the motivating factors for including the one hitter with the candle and kind of what else was in there?
[00:06:55]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Yeah, I, how I was consuming and how other women around me were consuming was [00:07:00] very much a ritual. It was, you know, you come, you come home from work, kick off your heels, take your bra.
[00:07:05] off You do want a glass of wine, you wanna, you wanna sit in bath light a candle. Have two puffs. You know, I hate to call it a one hitter cause I, I get at least three or four puffs out of it. . And you just like, wanna unwind and it was just such this a beautiful experience after a long day. And then like right before bed, you know, it was helping me sleep.
[00:07:27] And all the women who were our first, you know, receivers of the mvp, the feedback was this just. It Seamlessly into how I live my life and my lifestyle. And for me, that sort of solidified, okay, if the women I’m surrounding myself with in, you know, our little New York bubble are saying this and thinking this way, there’s gotta be other women who are still in, you know, more or less the can of closet.
[00:07:52] Or maybe just starting to dabble in c b D, maybe not ready for cannabis per se, but, you know, women [00:08:00] turn to cannabis mostly for wellness reasons. We know that, like the stats are out there. Um, so yeah, so that’s how it just, it, it, it sort of began and I had. I really didn’t think it’d take off as much as it did.
[00:08:12] I had to sell my art magazine to really focus on half a puff full time. Cuz as we know investors, they don’t like to hear that you have multiple businesses, you have, you focus on one. Um, you know, and then I put a little pitch deck together. I look back at my first pitch deck and I just, I just laugh. I had no idea what I was doing.
[00:08:29]Bryan Fields: We’re all just figuring out as we go, but I think the adoption is so important, right? Like Zach Connect, you were saying you, you found a niche, then you, you looked out for other consumers, and it might be like women could see consumption devices like you were describing in that first story and never felt connected, right?
[00:08:44] They were interested in cannabis, but those devices might have been a hindrance for them to be like, See, it’s not really for me. And then, They see your device and it all clicks and now it all feels like something that belongs to them. And I think that’s so important when you’re talking about building a brand to have that voice and that identity for that customer.
[00:08:59] For who you’re creating the [00:09:00] product for.
[00:09:00]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Yeah. And accessories were just a very pragmatic entry point for us. You know, when you’re an entrepreneur. One of the first things you have to think about is like, how big is this problem I’m trying to solve? And the problem we know is huge. I mean, women are the fastest growing consumers in cannabis.
[00:09:16] Full stop. Um, and so I knew I could solve the problem fairly quickly, right? Not flat, not, we’re not flower touching company. Um, so very little regulatory constraints, although, you know, we do have hurdles that we jump through. Um, but accessories was, it was very intent. How did
[00:09:34]Bryan Fields: we blend the art with it?
[00:09:36] Right. Obviously with the art background, that’s a, that’s an interesting niche that you have and obviously applying your, your previous experience that had have been something where you wanted to forge the two of them together. So was that easier than you thought, or harder than you thought? Looking back.
[00:09:48]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Um, it was easy, right? Because I, I like to say that, you know, house puff sits at like the nexus of social justice art, uh, in cannabis. And women need to be put at ease, [00:10:00] right? With, with cannabis, especially if they’re doing it for the first time. And so art and high culture like sort of normalizes it for them, right?
[00:10:08] Especially when you pair it with beautiful lifestyle content. Um, We’ve, the, the art is, is so integral to who we are as a company. It’s just part of our dna, and we have a really cool model on how we do that. You know, we work with bi women artists for the most part. Everything we do is. Still hand glaze like our ceramics, which, you know, I don’t know how long that’s gonna last as like we continue to scale.
[00:10:36] Um, but I’ve refined my eye as an art collector for so many years, so I, you know, I know good design and I, and appreciate artists. And so what we do is we will take, uh, a product and the artist will do like, you know, a run of some, just a very small. We’ll test it out and if it does well, then we’ll put that product in into [00:11:00] commercial production.
[00:11:01] Um, and so we did that for our LA Pipes, which was our hero product, our first product, and now we have it in eight colors. Still all hand glaze here in the us um, by women artists. Um, we also license artwork, and. A really cool model because they’re not just pretty rolling papers, right? Like of course they are.
[00:11:20] But we, our artist series, we’ve done two so far. One was a Mexican artist, Pa, Paula Flores. Um, and most recently, which, um, I know you guys were both at the, uh, event we did for Chris Wilson. Um, and that was just, Sort of a dream come true for House of Puff where we license the artwork, we put it on rolling papers, and there’s a give back component.
[00:11:42] So of course we wanna support our artists in that beautiful ecosystem. And with Chris, uh, you know, he spent. 17 years, 16, 17 years in prison. Spent some time in solitary confinement. Uh, the artwork that we put on the rolling papers was positive delusions. Um, and it was [00:12:00] how he got through solitary confinement.
[00:12:01] And I encourage everybody to read his book, The Master Plan, and. He’s just such an inspiration. And so the colors and positive delusions, um, all you know, mean something like the black in the painting represents the anger and rage he felt as a black wo uh, black person. Um, and so we give back to him, but we also give back to solitary watchers as an organization trying to end solitary confinement, uh, in the us.
[00:12:25] So art and artists are inseparable from House of Puff. Um, And it’s, I think, you know, because we’re rooted in art, that’s why we stand out. It makes us, um, pretty much different from other folks who are doing, you know, cannabis, uh, accessories. That’s beautiful. Can
[00:12:42]Kellan Finney: you walk us through kind of the strategy for pairing specific art pieces with, uh, the form factor?
[00:12:49] Right. We were talking Chris Wilson, a specific painting went on the, the rolling papers. What was kind of the decision and the conversation that went into choosing that piece
[00:12:57]Bryan Fields: on the rolling papers?
[00:12:59]Kristina Lopez Adduci:[00:13:00] Um, so Chris, this was Chris’s first foray into, um, abstract R and we were staging, um, an exhibition, Atta, and, you know, we, we, we saw all the paintings, you know, over Zoom and positive delusions.
[00:13:16] First of all, the name itself, it was just, just strikes you. You’re like, What, what is that about? Before you even see it, right? You like, wanna know more. And Holly and I got quite emotional when we saw positive delusions. And then when Chris goes to explain it, um, so it’s sort of this like, not to sound too woo woo, but I had sort of just like this, this feeling in my heart and in my gut, like that is it.
[00:13:41] That is a painting we need to. And yeah, of course we have to get permission from Chris cuz we don’t know, like, is it an art collection? Does somebody own it? Because then obviously that gets, and licensing is already complicated when you’re licensing artworks. Um, but it’s, Holly and I just have this like, just, we saw it and we [00:14:00] were like, That is it, It’s, it’s positive delusions.
[00:14:03] And how cool is it that you get to carry a piece of artwork, you know, in your pocket or your purse? Um, that has a beautiful story. Um, and, and a give back component. So it’s all gut. It’s all I, There’s no rhyme or reason. We just, when you know, you know,
[00:14:20]Bryan Fields: I think the level of details is really what I, I enjoy most about that because I, I think a lot of people talk the talk, but you go ahead and actually back it up with the actions, and I think a lot of people in the industry and a lot of the bigger companies would be beneficial to take a page out of your book in order to back up the actions and not just kind of put the words out there.
[00:14:37] So, I wanna stay with some of the tiny details. I ordered the product, so I wanna get the experience, and I was blown away with opening the box, the personalized note, the instructions, it just felt completely different to me. Uh, in my household. We receive a gift from the Amazon guy every single day, , and there is no feeling with it.
[00:14:54] It is just a plain box. And I think that was kind of like what my condition thought would be when I opened it up [00:15:00] and I was completely blown away by the different experience. Felt opening and just, just having it. So I wanted to kind of expand on some of those experiences and those details. Like, was that always an intention?
[00:15:09] Was that something you kind of worked through? How did that happen?
[00:15:13]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Um, in, in, in terms of what? Like what? Like the, the pa like the opening of the, like every little detail. I mean really it was, it was trial and error and I did a lot of shopping, which, you know, shocker. Right. That had to be. Tough, you know, so I was doing market research, but also, you know, shopping.
[00:15:32] Yeah. . Um, and I, you know, just like with art, you just, to your point, the attention to detail, right? The little things you, you notice in a painting, you know, a corner of a painting that might inspire the colors. It’s sort of the same thing when you get a house of. Package. Right. Every little detail. I thought, like, how would I back to my first experience when I was opening up all this CD packaging, like what would [00:16:00] make me feel good about something that, let’s face it as a woman, as an, as a Puerto Rican, like the stigma, right?
[00:16:05] And so from beginning soup to nuts, like the packaging matters. So I want folks to open it up. They get a handwritten note from me. They, they get to hear my story and, and it’s just, Everything has been well thought out, but it took, you know, it took four years to really just, um, hone that in and, and finally we got a, a fulfillment center now, which was cuz I was doing that stuff outta my garage.
[00:16:31] You know, me and my looking, I’m wearing a Steve, my Steve Jobs, uh, turtleneck reference to, to businesses out of garages. and, you know, to, to, to pack up all of your stuff and to send it away and, you know, trust that packaging experience in somebody else’s hand. Luckily, um, we work with a woman owned company in New York and they’re amazing and I zoom with them all the time.
[00:16:56] I’m like, Let me see how you’re packaging do to get, Wait, put the tissue paper. Yep. [00:17:00] There we go. Put the sticker on. You know, like every little branding moment, um, is intent.
[00:17:07]Bryan Fields: It’s so, it’s so important, especially for new consumers, right? Because especially here on the east coast, we have that stigma still, people don’t understand or don’t, don’t know what to experience.
[00:17:15] So that first time is so important and having those instructions like it, it’s such a a minute detail for maybe for some, but for others it’s so critical because getting a product like that, most people are like, I don’t know what to do. But a product like yours experiencing that, I’d feel comfortable sending it to someone for the first time and they wouldn’t have to ask me, Hey Brian, like, what do I do now?
[00:17:34] And like, then it gets kind of weird. So I, I’ll applaud you for those type of details. Thank you.
[00:17:39]Kellan Finney: Apple. Apple also is pretty good at packaging too with your Steve Jobs.
[00:17:47]Bryan Fields: So how, how do we continue forward and kind of, uh, remove the stigma, obviously that, that stench kind of continues to get on, but embracing what, what other opportunities can we do to help remove.
[00:17:59]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Listen, I [00:18:00] think normalize normalization is the key to everything. But you know, I, I, I like to say normalization then legalization, right?
[00:18:07] That’s how we get there. And the more we talk about it, obviously when we have, uh, folks like, you know, Biden going on and, and, and, and talking about cannabis, and you have, you know, celebrities and people you look up to, that’s great. But really at the end of the day, I have to say, it’s education. You just, you know, the more people feel comfortable on a topic, the more likely they’re gonna talk about it.
[00:18:30] And the more that they talk about it, the more that it becomes part of everyday conversation. Like I’m. I was talking to a, a another parent about the other day. My, my kids go to, you know, a fancy pants private school, and I’m afraid, you know, are these parents gonna, you know, judge me if they know ’em in cannabis?
[00:18:48] But you know what Christina does? Christina just, she likes to talk about it. I’m like, Here, here’s my YouTube channel. You go to my blog. You have any questions? Come back and, and now more and more parents are [00:19:00] approaching me in, you know, at the parking lot being like, Hey, so I, uh, just watched the terpene video.
[00:19:05] So like, what kind of, uh, terpenes are in my gummies. You do you get, do you get gummies? Can I get, So can I get some? I become like the, the. The We Witch of Westport,
[00:19:15]Bryan Fields: the, the Plug ,
[00:19:17]Kellan Finney: that’s quite the name, .
[00:19:20]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Um, and so that’s why we’ve invested so heavily in content marketing, right? Because, um, specifically we don’t wanna, wanna be talked to and educated a certain way and we make it super digestible and easy and pull that friction out for them cuz once again, If you’re educated on a topic, you’re gonna feel good about it and you’re gonna, especially within the Hispanic community, like it is tough to talk to Abbu about cannabis, so she don’t wanna hear none of that.
[00:19:46] Um, But if she sees a beautiful video of a, a manicure and, you know, not some white kid in his mom’s, you know, basement teaching her how to roll a joint, but she sees me, she might, [00:20:00] she will definitely have gonna have a different experience, right? And so that’s why we, you know, our editorial site in YouTube is just something that we really focus.
[00:20:11]Kellan Finney: Have you noticed that stigma kind of changing more recently rather than in, or has it just been kind of consistent over the, since you’ve been doing the content?
[00:20:19]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Yeah, I, I, you know, I, we get a lot of comments on, you know, our social channels a lot. It’s like, I never thought I’d see somebody like you consuming, and I’m like, Like, you know, this is, this is how we start to break it down.
[00:20:32] And especially, I mean, with the Northeast, you know, the Northeast we’re the, Sorry, but Callum we’re the epicenter of a lot, right? And so we’re the trendsetter. So, All these other states are falling like Domino’s. It was New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Virginia, you know, and, and so I think with, with legalization happening in the northeast, it really is helping accelerate, um, you know, ization and normalization for sure.
[00:20:59]Kellan Finney: I [00:21:00] completely agree. I mean, there’s about 18 million people that just live in New York City and Colorado has like five. So , that’s .
[00:21:06]Bryan Fields: I get it. . I get it. . And you’re right Christine. If you go on YouTube and you search for like rolling a joint, you’re gonna get 90% are gonna be the same kind of in close your eyes.
[00:21:17] And guess you can see the person in your head totally. Having someone like yourself kind of be that face For others people similar interest. It, it changes that perception because people immediately assume, wait a minute, like, like you. Originally with the product, you’re changing the idea that this is for me and this can be for me if this is someone else doing it.
[00:21:38] So, uh, I definitely think that you’re on the right track. So was that something that was easy to start? Cause obviously putting yourself in that, in that shoes is challenging, right? Being the face for others to look to for, for continuity and for, for comfort. That’s, that’s a challenge or that’s something that came natural.
[00:21:52]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Yeah. You know, I gotta say I love the, I love the camera and the camera loves me. I, I don’t know, I’ve just like alwa, you [00:22:00] know, my mom shows me videos of me like performing at like other kids’ birthday parties. Like, I just like love to like, entertain and educate. I love to share my story because, I growing up, I got, you know, I was bullied a lot for being, for being Puerto Rican and, um, I didn’t really have a role model.
[00:22:20] I, I could, you know, turn on the TV or read about that, you know, would make me feel okay. And I feel like now maybe the reason why I like to be, you know, on TV or do a YouTube or it comes so naturally to me because I wanna share my story and if I can inspire whether. You know, another Latina who wants to be in cannabis or just a, a college student who, you know, wants to, you know, do something else with their life and, and needs that, like, encouragement from somebody who’s had a patchwork career like myself.
[00:22:53] Um, I’m gonna do that. And so I’m also a Leo, so I’m just loud, proud and, and, [00:23:00] and just love to dish and it’s fun for me. The, the only thing was I didn’t wanna do a YouTube channel. We were a team of two. So like we had no bandwidth. Um, but it was the pandemic and we had to, we had to like pivot a little bit, right?
[00:23:15] Like a lot of the stores that were carrying us closed, um, and everybody was at home. So you have to meet your customer where they are. They were at home and so, I honestly didn’t think that the two would be as big as it, as big as it is. I think our Hatter roll joint video has like over a million views now.
[00:23:33] We’re one of the top joint rolling videos, which is like cool because I’m definitely not the, the best joint roller to be like, truth be told, but I can teach you the basics and it really resonated with our community. And so investing in, in, and by the. To anybody like nervous about like getting a fancy camera, don’t.
[00:23:54] I did all of those videos on our, on my iPhone. Okay. Now we just started to invest [00:24:00] in, into. You know, we work with an amazing videographer, but back then we had $0. So I had like a little cheap microphone. I would clip and I’d clip it into my iPhone and it worked, right? Cause all I was trying to do was just reach our, reach our women and, and, and educate them and, and it, and it paid off because it’s, you know, we’ve got thousands of subscribers now and it’s, it’s wonderful to, to build that community.
[00:24:25] What’s
[00:24:26]Kellan Finney: your favorite part about building the, the channel so far? What’s been the, your
[00:24:29]Kristina Lopez Adduci: favorite? Interacting with other, with other people, interacting with other women, specifically interacting with women who were, where I was when I first started. You know, confused, scared, nervous. Um, had there been somebody like me on YouTube or a a or a place or social channel, um, That I could have looked at, I probably would’ve been a lot more comfortable early on.
[00:24:56] But, you know, everything happens for a reason. So it’s just hearing the [00:25:00] stories from, from just incredible, these kinda curious folks and their, their journey, right? Because we’re not West Coast legacy. We haven’t been doing this for 20 years. We’re, we’re newbies and you can’t, and we can’t forget about that.
[00:25:15] There are people who are just realizing how beautiful this plant.
[00:25:20]Kellan Finney: That is beautiful. This such is gotta fuel the fire.
[00:25:23]Bryan Fields: Yeah. , does cannabis help with the creativity and does it help calm the nerves? Maybe pre-recording.
[00:25:31]Kristina Lopez Adduci: So you know, I am, again, like the type A in me. I never wanna consume when I film. But then I, I think our last video, seven questions to ask yourself before you go to a dispensary.
[00:25:45] I had done it so many times and Holly was like, Why don’t you just like, have a little puff and do it one more time? And I’m like, Oh, fine. Okay. So I take little puff and it was of course the best, the best take out of all of ’em. So now, now I’m [00:26:00] rethinking it. Maybe, maybe I just need a little. Personality puff, hashtag personality, puff, uh, and, and then, and then get on camera.
[00:26:08] You’re like, it’s for the
[00:26:08] content.
[00:26:09]Bryan Fields: It’s, it’s just for the content .
[00:26:11]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Cause I can’t consume during the day, like working hours. Like I know there are people who do it and they need it and it’s great. I, I can’t, I’ll just, I’ll just be in the pantry just eating Doritos if I do.
[00:26:23]Kellan Finney: That’s also not favorite. Torito Cool.
[00:26:25] Ranch or nacho cheese?
[00:26:26]Bryan Fields: Cool. Ranch,
[00:26:27]Kristina Lopez Adduci: are you coming outta your mind? Of
[00:26:29]Bryan Fields: course. Cool. Ranch. He’s just setting you up for a That’s a gotcha question. . So what’s the, what’s the state of New York, right? Like what, what, what can we anticipate? Obviously right now it’s disappointing. Um, but for the people out there, especially for the East coasters, specifically here in New York, like what can they expect in the future?
[00:26:48] And like, what can we hope for from what you’ve seen, uh, to come.
[00:26:53]Kristina Lopez Adduci: I think we are going to see a robust competitive. New York market and the [00:27:00] OCM has, so like they want this to be a very competitive market, uh, marketplace as it should be. Um, I think you’re gonna see a lot of, of creative brands and companies and people, and I pray and I hope that most of these operators and brand builders and companies are black, The black and brown community, because, We deserve it.
[00:27:28] They deserve it. And New York is, is, is, is doing their part and they’re sticking to Now I know everybody has their opinions on, you know, regulations that drop every so often and I actually host, um, The Thursday, a, a small group of folks and we, you know, dissect them and what we like, what we don’t like, should we submit comments?
[00:27:50] Um, but overall, I mean the diversity, uh, uh, of, of, of products and is gonna be incredible. I went to my first. [00:28:00] Uh, grow, uh, in, in upstate New York and Walden, New York. And I gotta say, I was so emotional to see cannabis being grown, uh, outside in New York, in New York soil. Um, and so, you know, Callie better watch out because, uh, in the next few years we might be the biggest, uh, cannabis capital
[00:28:22] I think
[00:28:22]Bryan Fields: Christina just put California on notice. Yep.
[00:28:26]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Don’t at me. .
[00:28:29]Bryan Fields: So what about events? Can we expect, Obviously like an intersection of more art-based cool events. Ones that I think like when we hear cannabis events, I think people all go, immediately go and think of like a, a more dingy and a basement style event.
[00:28:41] But can we expect in New York a more upscale. Vibrant environment with art and cannabis in the future, in your opinion? Oh,
[00:28:48]Kristina Lopez Adduci: absolutely. I mean, it’s already happening now. You have, you know, folks like happy monkeys throwing events, uh, with live artists doing painting at the classic car club. I mean, [00:29:00] what I mean, how incredible.
[00:29:01] They had like a thousand people there. You’re gonna, you’re gonna see not only the intersection of art and cannabis, Fashion, Right? We’re the fashion capital, we’re the art capital, we’re the, you know, banking capital. You’re gonna see so much crossover, and that’s why, that’s why New York’s so great. We’ve always been good at that.
[00:29:20] We’re, we’re the melting pot for a reason, right? And just bringing everybody’s diverse. Backgrounds, right? Cause we all didn’t come from Canada. We come, we came from somewhere else. I came from the art world, Somebody came from, you know, running magazines. Word. Have you now we’re all doing this together.
[00:29:35] You’re gonna see a lot of interesting, again, like nothing like you’ve seen before. So watch out .
[00:29:44]Bryan Fields: What’s the future roadmap look like for you,
[00:29:48]Kristina Lopez Adduci: for House of Puff? What is the future? Well, um, Obviously we are a brand that, um, is built in New York. Uh, we we’re [00:30:00] here in New York. Uh, most of our products are named after spots that I love in New York.
[00:30:07] Um, you know, we wanna be. We’re D to C we’re b2b. I think the next step, you know, put two and two together is, is a house of puff il uh, and, and giving customers finally the opportunity. Cause whenever we do a popup, you know, they get to like, touch the product and meet me and meet our team. They’re just like, oh.
[00:30:27] I love it. I get it now. Right? Because there’s a difference between shopping online and shopping in person. So I am bullish on retail. Uh, and, and I know that that might be controversial, but I am, I think New York goes, there’s, it’s, it’s up and downs. Um, but I, for us, it definitely looks like a House of Puff somewhere.
[00:30:49]Bryan Fields: Oh, I see. Is, see what I did there. Yeah. Yeah. Win Wing. But I think you’re right. I. There’s something tangible about touching the products. Uh, I’ve been shopping enough with my wife to see her touch the [00:31:00] clothes, Not necessarily buy them all, but just touch them all. And I never understood what that concept in theory was, but yeah.
[00:31:04] She said there’s something different about feeling the products, and I think you hit the nail on the head with, with kind of being live with the products and they experience it and then truly understanding it. Yeah.
[00:31:14]Kellan Finney: And it could be a really, really awesome retail experience, integrating the art and all of your products.
[00:31:19]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Exactly, and it’d be great to, you know, continue to work with all these incredible artists, support our local artists in our community. Um, stage art shows. Um, we’re really excited for the future for sure.
[00:31:33]Bryan Fields: What is one factor statistic about being in the cannabis industry that would shock others to know ?
[00:31:40]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Oh my gosh.
[00:31:41] Uh, let’s see. I don’t know if this is. You know, cannabis in general, but the disbursement of funds to, to women and women of color, um, I think is what 0.8% of venture capital 0.8% goes to us. Uh, I hate to like, [00:32:00] You know, think about it, but people, more people need to know about that, right? And I think, um, access to capital is something that, especially access to capital for people of color, um, is something I’m very passionate about.
[00:32:12] Um, I don’t think it’s talked about enough. Um, and that stat, while a sad one, you know, I, I don’t let it, you know, bog us down. We just keep on keeping on and there. Tons of investors and, and, and people and folks who wanna support and invest in, in brands, um, that are owned by, um, black and brown, uh, folks.
[00:32:34] And I think that, um, we need to be talking about that more. So I would say that’s a stat that maybe not cannabis related, but something that I always like to mention because I want it, I want it changed, right? So if I want something to change, God talk.
[00:32:48]Bryan Fields: Do you think that they get passed over more or do you think we just need more female entrepreneurs or a combination of both?
[00:32:54]Kristina Lopez Adduci: I think they get passed over. I think there are a, I, a lot of female entrepreneurs doing a [00:33:00] lot of kick ass things that get passed over just because they’re women.
[00:33:04]Bryan Fields: What can be done to make more noise about it or to change that?
[00:33:09]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Well talking about it, right? This beautiful platform. So, you know, thanks to you guys and you know, you’ve always done such a wonderful job of, of bringing women on your show, so I appreciate that.
[00:33:19] We need more of you, right? We need more platforms, um, to be talking about this. Uh, we need to be in the room, right? When I go to a lot of these capital conferences, Ben Zinga was just at, they’re very intent. They are trying, right? They’re teaming up with. Organizations like Women Grow and you know, gave me a 10 minute pitch for $0.
[00:33:41] Like let me go on stage and talk about, So, you know, there are people in this space who are doing the good work. We just need to amplify that more. Well said.
[00:33:52]Bryan Fields: When you started your journey in the cannabis space, what did you get? Right? And most importantly, what did you get wrong? ?
[00:33:58]Kristina Lopez Adduci: What did I get right? [00:34:00] Um, I think.
[00:34:03] I’m gonna be a little cheesy. I got right. My Holly Hager, my coo is the one thing I I absolutely got right? I think, um, too many times you hear about failed partnerships. Um, and I am extremely blessed and honored to be working with such an incredible mind. And I know you feel the same way about ke .
[00:34:27]Kellan Finney: It’s mutual over here too.
[00:34:28] I have that same feeling, .
[00:34:31]Kristina Lopez Adduci: What I got wrong, how difficult some of, uh, you know, advertising and marketing. I didn’t realize the shadow banning on Instagram was like a thing, right? I didn’t realize that. TikTok would strip down all of my videos, even if it was just a REO in the video. Um, I was not prepared to, to, to have, to get creative and perhaps even leave some of these [00:35:00] social channels because we were getting booted off all the time.
[00:35:03] And it’s frustrating when you invest time and energy and money and you have a social media manager and you’re posting all these things. You’re trying to reach your community, you’re trying to, to do sales and you can’t. Um, so I definitely underestimated that for.
[00:35:17]Bryan Fields: That one, that one agitates me so bad because people are like, Can’t you just do X, Y, and Z?
[00:35:22] And you’re like, Yeah, if only, if only, thank God
[00:35:25]Kristina Lopez Adduci: for LinkedIn. Shout out to LinkedIn. You know,
[00:35:28]Bryan Fields: But like realistically, like at any moment people be kicked off that and like then you’re, we are gonna be here next week being like, You know what? We’re sorry we gave LinkedIn. Any love like deserve to be in the back of the room.
[00:35:37] Like everyone. Well,
[00:35:39]Kristina Lopez Adduci: that’s why I think podcasts are the, are also like one of my favorite things to do. It’s audio right? You can’t, very little regulatory constraints there. So, um, right. Again, you guys are nailing
[00:35:50]Bryan Fields: it. . You can control what you can control, but you need to do your own voice in order to dictate that out.
[00:35:55] And if you put yourself in position to have the big social media platform to control your [00:36:00] voice, you know, you’re subject to what they think is, is necessary and best. 20 years from now, we will look back and say, That was barbaric. I can’t believe we did that in the cannabis industry. What is that
[00:36:14]Kristina Lopez Adduci: two 80
[00:36:16]Kellan Finney: Yeah.
[00:36:19]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Say banking any, like you name it. Like I, you know, I just, um, I, that’s top of mind for me because obviously we know a lot of businesses unfortunately, are closing and struggling, especially the California market. Um, and it’s really sad to see. Um, I also think that we’ll look back in 20 years and be like, Why did we take so long for federal legalization?
[00:36:41] Like we are talking about. Medicine. This is a medicine, but we cannot forget that. Yes, we like to consume and have fun and be giggly, whatever. This is a medicine first. Um, so I think we’ll look back like we did prohibition in the twenties and be like, that was like illegal. [00:37:00] What? Um, so yeah, that’s my answer.
[00:37:03]Bryan Fields: or we do predictions. We ask all of our guests, If you can sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson, learn to pass onto the next generation, what would.
[00:37:14]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Don’t worry about making mistakes cause you’re gonna make them. You have to keep going, especially in a nascent industry like cannabis. Very difficult.
[00:37:25] I don’t think people realize how difficult the cannabis industry is. And I, you know, we are changing the tire as we drive the car. Right. It’s still moving. We are going to have hiccups and we’re going to change gears and that’s okay. Um, but those things, bad experiences, especially personal experiences that go haywire, um, can help build an incredible business.
[00:37:52] And I think the House of Puff stories is a testament to that. You just gotta keep going. I made a lot of mistakes. [00:38:00] But I built this company because my own bad personal experience. Right? Said gross collegiate, bong. And, uh, and now look where we are. Right? Um, you know, we’ve got a, a worldwide community of almost 5 million and I would’ve never thought that.
[00:38:15] Um, so that’s, that’s the takeaway. Yeah.
[00:38:18]Bryan Fields: I mean, drawing inspiration from a dirty, ugly bong is, uh, pretty incredible. I gotta tell. I have to . All right. Prediction time. C. What is one cannabis essential or product that every new customer should have or consider to own?
[00:38:36]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Ooh, I think. I mean, I obviously wanna say a one hitter, right?
[00:38:41] Whether you’re a cannabis connoisseur or you’re just, you’re a kinda curious gal. I think it’s just an easy, quick way to get a little puff. I also think that beverages, you know, a lot of family members of mine who would never cons, would never smoke. [00:39:00] Or even nervous to take an edible when again, bullish on beverages.
[00:39:05] I think that you, you know, pour, Jamie Evans has a rose that tastes just like rose. There’s no alcohol in it. Um, I think that everybody at some point should have a little case of can or a drink or a, an infused beverage because I do think that is the future. I really do. I think beverages are, are just a fantastic entry point for a lot of folks.
[00:39:32] Um, And I’ve seen it in my own family that, you know, again, like my mother would never be caught puffing, but, you know, she’ll pop open a, a, a 2.5 mg, uh, you know, a seltzer. And it’s, it’s, it’s a wonderful thing to say. Helen,
[00:39:51]Kellan Finney: uh, I’m gonna go with two things cuz I think that there is kind of the traditional market or consumer, if you will, right now, which is [00:40:00] 70% probably smoke.
[00:40:01] So I would say probably most 70% of people that are getting me involved in, you’re gonna inhale or smoke it. So they probably need ashtray. This probably would be my first thing I would suggest. Right? A nice ashtray for ’em. Um, just cause it’s pain in the ass, ash in your sink and stuff like that. And then I would say probably beverages as well.
[00:40:19] Um, it’s the second, it’s just the safest form factor probably right. Most. Most humans are used to consuming something that inebriates them via liquid, right? Like alcohol, we’re used to it. Society’s used to it. So I think that that’s gonna be the, the
[00:40:36]Bryan Fields: easiest hill to
[00:40:37]Kellan Finney: climb for most consumers that have any apprehension for ingesting cannabis
[00:40:42]Kristina Lopez Adduci: for the first time.
[00:40:43] And, and you meant to say House of Puff ash tray.
[00:40:47]Kellan Finney: I was looking
[00:40:47]Bryan Fields: at ’em actually
[00:40:50]Kellan Finney: and if I was uh, more in tune with the art world, I would know the name of those plates that have that same passel color, the famous plate set from [00:41:00] like the seventies. I dunno if I’m just making a fool of myself right now, but
[00:41:05]Kristina Lopez Adduci: I’ll teach you my ways and I got you
[00:41:07]Bryan Fields: Thank you. I think we need more people to do educational focus so that others can see like-minded people that are doing similar things. I think one common thing I hear now is with cannabis, I don’t wanna smoke. Right, exactly. Like you said. Mm-hmm. , I don’t want to eat. I don’t want to eat edible. So there’s different form factors, but that starts with educating yourself and understanding.
[00:41:27] That it’s not these preconceived motions that you’re feeling. And I think that starts with having a, a social figure like yourself, Christina or others out there that are helping knocking down doors and these barriers to stigmas of saying that like, Hey, maybe I don’t need to have a glass of wine after work.
[00:41:41] I can have, you know, a 2.5 milligram beverage can. But it, that starts with educating yourself and being comfortable with, with putting in some of the effort to go find someone that makes you feel comfortable and then following what they’re doing. Yeah,
[00:41:54]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Well said. For.
[00:41:57]Bryan Fields: So Christina, for our listeners, they want to get in touch.
[00:41:59] They wanna buy [00:42:00] House of Puff products. Where can they find ya?
[00:42:02]Kristina Lopez Adduci: Uh, house of puff.com. We’re on Instagram at the House of Puff. I’m Christina at Christina dci. Slide into my dms if you want. Um, and, uh, our YouTube channels at home with House of Buff. We’ll
[00:42:17]Bryan Fields: link it up in the shots. Thanks for taking the time.
Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
This week we are joined by Matha Figaro, CEO, and Founder of Cannpowerment, to discuss:
Culinary Edibles
Advancing the industry by helping others
From legacy to legal
And so much more
About Matha: With An Associate of Arts and Sciences (A.A.S.) degree in Baking and Pastry Arts from Le Cordon Bleu Institute of Culinary Arts Graduating Class of 2010, ButACake takes the CAKE in 100% handmade from scratch treats. ButACake is a cannabis brand specializing in educating and feeding consumers on the benefits of alternative cannabis consumption. Click the photo above for more.
#Cannabis #CannabisChef #Cannabiscommunity
At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev), we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.
8th Revolution Cannabinoid Playbook is an Industry-leading report covering the entire cannabis supply chain
Contact us directly at [email protected] Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24 Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney
[00:00:00] What’s
[00:00:02]Bryan Fields: up guys? Welcome back to that episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields, and with me as always is Ke Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest, Mata Figueroa, co-founder and CEO of Can Empowerment Mata. Thanks for taking the time. How you doing
[00:00:13]Matha: today? So well, so well, really excited to be here.
[00:00:16] Thanks for having me,
[00:00:17]Bryan Fields: guys. Stoked to dive in. Kelin, how are you doing? I’m good. Doing really well?
[00:00:20]Kellan Finney: Yeah. Yeah, I’m doing well. I’m excited to talk to Mata and, uh, another east coaster, I
[00:00:26]Bryan Fields: guess. Right. SS what’s, for the record, your
[00:00:29]Matha: location. I’m in Jersey City, New Jersey. Born and raised in Jersey. First generation American.
[00:00:35] Let’s go, let’s go
[00:00:36]Bryan Fields: another, let’s go another East coast for the map. So mata, for our listeners that un freely about you. Can you give it all a background about yourself?
[00:00:43]Matha: Yeah, so, uh, my name’s Mata figure, Like I said before, first generation. My family came here from Haiti. Uh, just so really lucky, honestly, to be here.
[00:00:53] I started a brand called Butter Cake back in 2015, and I was just slinging really good butter cakes. I’m a pastry chef by [00:01:00] trade. Got to enjoy working for Whole Foods for a few years in management, so that was really fun. But then I just got tired of it, so I tried my own business making butter. Uh, about a few months into doing that, a woman came up to me and she was like, Hey, I gotta go through chemo.
[00:01:14] Can you turn your cake into an edible for me? And I was like, Hell no. Because it’s 2015. I’m not go to jail for your ass. Uhuh, there’s just no way She comes back a few months later and she’s like, Come on, but a cake I really like. I think you should do this, you should do this. And she just really encouraged me and I was like, Okay, fine.
[00:01:31] I’ll practice on you, but we gotta keep this a secret and. She didn’t keep it a secret. She shared with all her friends, she shared with her family and like it kind of just took up and, and blew up from there. And now here I am, eight years later, uh, I applied for a license in the state of New Jersey under my business called Cann Powerment, in which we are really excited to be conditionally licensed.
[00:01:53] We’re gonna be producing ButA cAKE and we’ll be producing for other people with awesome brands that wanna get into the market.
[00:01:58] out here
[00:01:59]Bryan Fields:[00:02:00] Many congratulations. So I guess my, my first question was, was that your first experience dabbling between the intersection of cannabis infused cooking
[00:02:06]Matha: for the public? Yeah. .
[00:02:09]Bryan Fields: And what about for yourself?
[00:02:10]Matha: No, I’ve been a little stoner probably since I was born. And it, And
[00:02:14]Bryan Fields: it was through cooking was how you consumed, or was it through
[00:02:17]Matha: Ry? Oh, I, so I was actually a smoker when I first started. I had herniated three discs in my lower back in my chef life. Yeah. And it sucked and it turned me into a vegetable for a few months.
[00:02:28] And I was just on the couch doing all kinds of opioids that doctors prescribed. And finally my mom and and a friend of mine were like, Yo, we don’t even recognize you. Your personality’s gone. And when my mom disappeared, my friend was like, Try some, Try some of these edibles, try some weed. And then I kind of just was like, All right.
[00:02:44] But I never thought it was gonna be a business. I never thought it was gonna lead me here. Like me and my personal consumption is. It was just like, smoke some weed, my back hurts, smoke some weed, doing yoga. And then I started doing the edibles and now I’m just, I love it for all the health reasons [00:03:00] I’m able to do sugar free, gluten free, vegan, all kinds of cool stuff.
[00:03:03] So eating weed is my preferred way.
[00:03:05] now
[00:03:06]Kellan Finney: What’s your favorite, uh, form factor to bake with? Is it butter or is it a tincture? What.
[00:03:11]Matha: Ooh. Honestly, the more that science continues to develop really awesome ways for me to infuse the more excited I get. Um, I, I recently came across a company called a Zuka, and they do like sugars and, and all kind of cool things like that.
[00:03:25] So, um, I feel like lately these days, that’s been my favorite thing.
[00:03:30]Bryan Fields: And how, how, so how like for, for new consumers that are trying to get interested, but are petrified of, let’s say the infused cursing, how, how do new consumers can feel comfortable kind of adapting the new space? I would
[00:03:41]Matha: say do your research.
[00:03:42] Make sure you like, talk to your chef beforehand if you have access to that person. Always start low and slow. I don’t care how good it tastes. Have some self-control. , take a little bite. Wait 20 minutes, see how you feel and take it. So what other
[00:03:57]Bryan Fields: products are, uh, uh, involved with Butter Cake? [00:04:00] Obviously we, we, we got the grand reveal on the naming behind that, which was definitely one of my questions.
[00:04:03] But what other products are, are, are in the arsenal? Um,
[00:04:06]Matha: so butter cake. Shockingly enough, our number one seller are our gummies. Um, we have a new form factor out into the market right now. It’s just like the, uh, Listerine strips. You put it on your tongue and it starts to dissolve and you get an effect. So that’s just really, really fun.
[00:04:21] We’re doing it with hemp deriv delta to eight right now, uh, while we wait for the license to come through so that we could push it into the market with straight up THC the way everybody wants it.
[00:04:31]Bryan Fields: What,
[00:04:31]Kellan Finney: uh, how
[00:04:32]Bryan Fields: did that idea come to.
[00:04:34]Matha: Uh, so in New Jersey, they decided to make their reg regulations for the adult use market so that we can’t have baked goods.
[00:04:41] Um, I’m on a special task force to change that, by the way. So new rules are on the way. Thankfully, , thankfully, but when they said no baked goods, and I was like, Well, damn. I guess there’s no butter kicks for New Jersey. What else am I gonna do? And I just wrecked my brain back and forth. My childhood friend since third grade, Jimmy, he’s also my business partner and he’s had [00:05:00] incredible experience, um, in consumer packaged goods with a company out in Germany.
[00:05:04] Um, and then when I told him like, Yo, we got no bake goods, but I really love doing my tincture. I really love doing my oil spray. Let’s find something cool that people could do use through the mouth. And that’s how we landed on the strips.
[00:05:17]Bryan Fields: Why, Why no big goods.
[00:05:19]Matha: Uh, cuz then you gotta get the health department involved in New Jersey.
[00:05:24] Every municipality works as its own state. So now we’re talking about the CRC dealing with 500 and something different health departments on top of the health department for the entire state. So it’s just a lot, um, for them to try to handle when they’re just trying to open up the market to begin with.
[00:05:39] So that’s,
[00:05:42]Kellan Finney: I like how understanding you are about it. , I, I’m the one that’s a very cordial
[00:05:45]Bryan Fields: answer. , I’m about to throw a fit in the corner over here. I’m upset that I can’t be getting those products,
[00:05:51]Matha: so Wow. I feel like I’m so understanding about it. Cause I’m a legacy operator. Just because they don’t get it doesn’t mean I don’t get it yet.
[00:05:58] Yeah, that’s So I’m just [00:06:00] gonna help them get it so that we can all lead, do
[00:06:03]Bryan Fields: it , but get it. So I know Butter Cake’s, one of the brands underneath the umbrella. What else is the primary goal of Camp
[00:06:09]Matha: Powerment? Honestly, we are looking for underrepresented individuals. We’re looking for the little guys, you know, the MSOs.
[00:06:16] They could do the cookies and all that good stuff, but we are really just looking to empower. People that thought that they couldn’t do what I’m doing right now, and people that don’t have two and a half million dollars to get a license. You know, we really wanna just lower the barriers of entries so we can make some field gummies or some Kellen cakes, whatever.
[00:06:33]Bryan Fields: I like it. I like it. I know one of your missions is diversify the products on a retails shelf. Can you kind of expand on that?
[00:06:39]Matha: Yeah, I pulled up to California Palm Springs, which I should have assumed wasn’t gonna be the most , most diverse place. But I shot my shot, you know, and I asked, I said, Hey, which one of these brands is women?
[00:06:50] Made no answer. Okay, fine. Which one of these is black owned? No answer. And I was like, Damn, if I’m gonna be a manufacturer, I need to make sure that every [00:07:00] single dispensary can at least answer that question for somebody that walks into
[00:07:04]Bryan Fields: the. I think that’s so important. But I guess my question to you is, for a consumer who wants to support a brand like that but isn’t sure which one is owned by those individuals, how, how, how do they figure that out?
[00:07:14] Cause if a Bud tender doesn’t know there could be a brand on the shelf, but how, how do we kind of align the information with the individual?
[00:07:21]Matha: Ooh, woo. Wow. I don’t know. Maybe we should do something together, Brian, where we just put all the information up where all the black own businesses,
[00:07:30]Bryan Fields: Let me
[00:07:31]Matha: like the directory.
[00:07:32] Yeah, let’s get it. Drop it on the dime every week. We’ll just do a quick list. Here’s five black owned businesses you could support. Five minority owned, women known lgbtq, own all of it.
[00:07:41]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Cuz I think that’s such an important thing, right? Cuz people do wanna support certain types of businesses when they go in and sometimes there’s an information disconnect, especially maybe it could be that one Budd tender that doesn’t know, but four others do.
[00:07:51] And that’s one of the biggest challenges that, that I’ve seen is that there’s like the the missing gap of information transfer between the individuals.
[00:07:59]Matha:[00:08:00] Agreed. I’m, I’m gonna attempt to solve that
[00:08:02]Bryan Fields: sticker. Maybe I’m just kind of brainstorming out loud
[00:08:06]Matha: certification. It’s gotta be different
[00:08:08]Kellan Finney: in every state though.
[00:08:09] You know, It’s gonna be Ellen’s tough one, right?
[00:08:11]Bryan Fields: What? I’m surprised this is true. Um, so a question for you is, I’ve heard you say I’m gonna put my mask on first and then help the others around me.
[00:08:20]Matha: Yeah. Why? So when I say my mask on first, I’m talking about But A cake. You know, I started that. It’s completely legacy operation.
[00:08:29] Um, and not for nothing. Being a legacy operator is hard as fuck. You cannot walk into a bank right now with a duffle bag of $200,000 of cash saying, Okay, I wanna buy a house now. I wanna buy a car now. Like life right now, the way it is, is not what it used to be for, for legacy operators back in the day.
[00:08:45] And so for me, it really just means like, Let me put the framework together to figure out how regular everyday people could get involved in this industry. And once I do that, I’m just gonna pass it on, pass it out, give it out. I’m, I’m not interested in gatekeeping, I’m not [00:09:00] interested in making people pay, uh, me for, for, you know, templates and guidelines and stuff like that.
[00:09:05] I really just wanna make it as easy and equitable as possible for whoever wants to be involved to get.
[00:09:11]Bryan Fields: Yeah, it’s, it’s so important to have someone like yourself trailblazing from the front because some people are just a little more hesitant until they see someone else kind of pushing forward. Not everyone’s meant to be the alpha to top down the trees and say, Hey, like, I’m gonna handle it first.
[00:09:23] You guys can follow me. Uh, I’m gonna help everyone through. That’s right. It also is,
[00:09:27]Kellan Finney: it’s also more genuine that you’re doing it yourself and not charging other people to, to help. You know what I mean?
[00:09:32]Matha: Yeah. Yeah. The first time a consultant hit me up when I decided I was gonna go on this journey, he was like, Oh, $50,000 up front.
[00:09:40] And I was like, What, What? What? To consult me to tell me that I need to get a lawyer that’s gonna charge me another 30, 40, 50,000 on top of that. That’s crazy. Those are
[00:09:50]Bryan Fields: billable hours too. Yeah.
[00:09:56] So social equity needs to be collected on deals on paper, [00:10:00] not just verbally. Uh, obviously that’s a, the massive sticking point for so many to stop saying the words and start doing the actions. Yeah. You know, what can, what can companies do to do that?
[00:10:09]Matha: Shit, when it comes down to revenue splits, it’s not 50 50.
[00:10:12] If you are a business, a manufacturer, an mso, whatever, and you’re in a position where you can help somebody else get in, why are we not doing 51 49 in favor of the social equity applicant? We’re not 50 50s s. No more predatory practices. You know, we just need more, um, legal people as well to really help guide us to make sure that we’re not falling into these practices and business owners.
[00:10:35] It’s time to speak up. Don’t just sign the deal for the sake of doing a deal, because then we make no difference as a collective.
[00:10:41]Bryan Fields: I love it. Stoners make great blood donors. True or false?
[00:10:45]Matha: Hell yeah. That’s true. Very true. Why? So there, for some reason, there’s like this stigma out there that if you are a cannabis consumer, stoner, weed friendly person, that you cannot donate [00:11:00] blood.
[00:11:00] And that’s actually not true at all. With Covid being here, we’re actually finding ourselves, um, in the United States in the first blood crisis ever. We lost a lot of people, um, clearly to Covid d and then with. Putting all of us inside and having a shutdown and being so virtual, it’s hard for blood banks and for, for, uh, hospitals, the American Red Cross, places like that, to really tap into people and start getting more blood.
[00:11:24] So now more people are sick, less people are donating. We have a massive shortage and this is a huge opportunity for the cannabis industry to get in and get into donating. Cuz you know, we’re, we’re fucking great people as stoners. Why?
[00:11:38]Bryan Fields: You
[00:11:38]Kellan Finney: think it, uh, helps with the actual blood donation part that like, you know, like you smoke weed dries get red, it’s a vasodilator, so maybe it opens your blood vessels up, makes it easier to poke
[00:11:47]Bryan Fields: from a possibly.
[00:11:49]Matha: Um, I’m not a doctor by any means. Me neither, Me neither ever associated with the fda, but I’m pretty sure with more research being a cannabis consumer [00:12:00] and a blood donor has to be a positive thing. I
[00:12:03]Bryan Fields: agree. Yeah. Mata, if you were to start over or start a competitor, which part of your business would be most difficult for you to replicate?
[00:12:15] Ooh.
[00:12:18]Matha: If I were to start over, which would, What would be the most difficult thing to replicate? To be honest, I recently thought about creating another brand, and I haven’t actually pulled the trigger on that because I’m realiz. How hard it is to actually start a brand. Butter cake was something I think I got lucky with.
[00:12:38] I was already making butter cakes. Butter cake. The name just fell into my lap. It, it all worked. Um, I don’t know if I could recreate that magic
[00:12:46]Bryan Fields: twice. I think you could, and I think that there’s. Behind every piece of luck, there’s putting yourself in the right positions to be successful. And I think if you continue to place yourself in positions to be successful, luck seems to find [00:13:00] you, right?
[00:13:00] I think that’s kind of one of the things is people kind of attract good luck and that involves putting in the work and hustling and making sure you’re getting things done. Cuz if you weren’t producing the products, probably be really hard to start a brand behind bought
[00:13:11]Matha: a cake. That’s very true. It is
[00:13:13] very
[00:13:13]Bryan Fields: true.
[00:13:14] What is one product request that you get a lot but you’ll never.
[00:13:18]Matha: Oh my God. Like these designer bong cakes or something. I’m not a cake decorator by any means. There’s like this trend going on where people are decorating cakes and physically turning them into bong. So you could smoke your birthday cake.
[00:13:33] Please don’t hit me up for that cuz I’m never doing it. What about a wedding cake? Nah.
[00:13:39]Bryan Fields: I, I did see the, the bond cake that looked just outrageous. Do you share that too? Or is it like a one hitter for like, one person just like hits this?
[00:13:49]Matha: Yeah. I would imagine if it’s my birthday and my cake, it’s a one hitter
[00:13:57] But yeah. Cake decorating is, is, That’s the no, for me, I [00:14:00] don’t like decorating.
[00:14:01]Bryan Fields: What is one factor statistic operating in the cannabis industry that would shock other individual? Shocking.
[00:14:12]Matha: I don’t think I know. I don’t think I know a sta that would be shocking to the industry because I feel like this industry is so new. Everything that we’re doing is either so shockingly good or so shockingly bad. , ,
[00:14:25]Bryan Fields: what’s the future roadmap?
[00:14:28]Matha: The future roadmap. Ah, man. I’m hoping for interstate commerce.
[00:14:31] Near term, interstate commerce would be awesome, especially on the east coast. We see California and Washington figured it out, so it would be awesome to see, you know, Tri-State, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, let’s throw Connecticut in there as well. They’re coming online. If we could get some interstate commerce that would be sick and that would set us up for an even better future when federal.
[00:14:52]Bryan Fields: Agreed. 20 years from now, we’ll look back and say, That was barbaric. I can’t believe we did that in the cannabis industry. What is that? [00:15:00]
[00:15:01]Matha: 20 years from now, I’m gonna be like, I can’t believe I paid a municipality $20,000 for a non-refundable application fee for me to even operate there. That’s crazy. That is crazy.
[00:15:13] Yep. And 20 years from now, I’m probably gonna ask for my money back. . .
[00:15:18]Bryan Fields: The government always gets theirs first. That’s right. Before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson, learn to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?
[00:15:32]Matha: Listen to yourself first.
[00:15:35] Listen to yourself first. I feel like if I had listened. To the people that are the most important in my life, my mom, my dad, my siblings, if I really had listened to them. I would’ve went to college. I would’ve got a four year degree. I’d be sitting behind a desk working some nine to five corporate job that I freaking hate, but I never listened to them.
[00:15:55] I didn’t listen to them. When they told me weed wasn’t an option, I didn’t listen to them. When they told me [00:16:00] culinary wasn’t a career, and I damn sure didn’t listen to them. When they told me But A Cake was the stupidest name they ever heard. So , if I could tell anybody, any kind of advice, listen to your.
[00:16:11] self Follow whatever it is that you wanna do. Everybody else that doesn’t agree they’ll, they’ll either find out later down the line that they should have given you better advice or they just won’t be involved and you’ll be happy anyway.
[00:16:24]Bryan Fields: Love it. Prediction time, maa, what else can be done to help legacy operators feel comfortable converting to the legal market?
[00:16:36]Matha: The thing that could be done is that we need our law enforcement to. Threatening us. That’s really what it is. Like the only reason why I felt comfortable putting my face in my name and my, you know, identity out there was because my law team and advisors. They promised me that they had my back, but outside of me trusting them, I would’ve never done it.
[00:16:59] So if [00:17:00] our, you know, people that make the laws, the rules and regulations could say, Hey, legacy operator, we get it. Please, you wanna con you want to switch over to the legal side, we won’t punish you for that.
[00:17:12]Bryan Fields: Ke I
[00:17:13]Kellan Finney: agree. I also think maybe lowering that, the barrier to make that transit. Uh, model was talking’s 2.5
[00:17:20]Bryan Fields: million.
[00:17:22] Even if you were a legacy operator, like I doubt you show up
[00:17:25]Kellan Finney: to the capital building with 2.5 million in cash and you’re like, Hey, can I fill out my application now?
[00:17:30]Bryan Fields: Yeah, exactly. It’s just not how it’s gonna work.
[00:17:32]Kellan Finney: So I think lowering the barrier to entry is probably the most important aspect
[00:17:35]Bryan Fields: associated with that.
[00:17:36] What do you think, Ryan? I think that there’s so many different things that maybe could be helpful, but it’s so hard to tell because each person feels differently and each government operates so differently. So I think kind of making it easier for people to understand how the situation operates, right?
[00:17:50] Instead of having to pay these massive fines or licensing opportunities to the government in order to submit your application. If we can lower the barriers of entry to make things easier and [00:18:00] cleaner for people to understand how to. I think it’ll help people feel more comfortable. I think one of the reasons a lot of people feel distrust with Gartner is cause they don’t trust them because they, they don’t really operate the way we think that they should.
[00:18:10] And maybe that’s a personal approach, but at the end of the day, I think that’s gonna be a big challenge and hopefully we can find ways to overcome that to allow people to continue to move in the right direction.
[00:18:21]Matha: That’s right. That is absolutely right. Also, I’d like to. There’s no correlation between legacy operating and being wealthy
[00:18:30] So people think that for some reason, that like if you’re a legacy operator, you’ve been selling drugs legally for so long. Weed specifically, that you’re like super freaking rich. It’s not really the case. Only like 2% of us are probably that rich . Yeah.
[00:18:45]Bryan Fields: Yeah. World. So, Martha, for our listeners, they wanna get in touch, they wanna learn more, and they wanna buy butter cake products.
[00:18:51] Where can they? Oh
[00:18:53]Matha: man, I’m all over the internet. Instagram, Twitter, but cake. It’s B U T A cake. We’re on butter [00:19:00] cake.shop for the legacy stuff. Butter cake wellness.com. For the legal stuff you can always Google me mata. Figu out. I’m everywhere.
[00:19:07]Bryan Fields: We’ll could open the shots. Thanks for taking the time.
Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
This week we are joined by Max Simon CEO of Green Flower, to discuss:
Adopting universities to cannabis education
Why trained employees stay longer
Certified Ganjier Program
And so much more
About Green Flower:
Green Flower is the industry standard for cannabis education and training, working with industry leaders since 2014 to create best-in-class training programs for individuals and businesses.
About Ganjier Program: Just as the wine, cheese, beer, chocolate, and cigar industries have highly-trained, certified experts qualified to distinguish the nuanced qualities of their respective products, the burgeoning cannabis industry is in dire need of its own class of educated and certified professionals that help consumers find and enjoy products that exceed their expectations.
Contact us directly at [email protected] Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24 Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney
[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys? Welcome back to the episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields, and with me as always is Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a super special guest, Max Simon’s, CEO of Green Flower Max, thanks for taking the time. How you
[00:00:13]Max Simon: doing today? Good to be with you guys. Looking forward to this.
[00:00:16]Bryan Fields: Yeah, looking forward to dive.
[00:00:17] Kellen, how are you doing?
[00:00:18]Kellan Finney: I’m doing really well. Looking forward to chatting about, uh, education. I think it’s a really important topic and it’s, it’s needed, uh, for the
[00:00:24]Bryan Fields: industry. How are you, Brian? I’m doing well. It’s desperately needed this industry. And Max, for the record, I know you are located in California, but I know your team is just repeated across the United States, so I don’t know if we can put that one up for the West Coast.
[00:00:37] What do you think, Kelly? I think it’s a
[00:00:38]Kellan Finney: West coast, right? Yeah. Incorporated in California.
[00:00:41]Bryan Fields: Yeah, I guess that’s fair. We’ll, we’ll give Max on the West Coast. So Max, for our listeners that are unfamiliar with you, can you give it a little background about
[00:00:48]Max Simon: yourself? Yeah, personally, um, I’ve been a long time can medical cannabis patient, I u use it daily for adhd and it’s actually very regimented for me.
[00:00:59] So it’s a, [00:01:00] it’s a medicine that I use very methodically and have for a long time. Um, and my, my personal background, I should say my career background is all, all in digital education. I. I spent nine years building Deepak Chopra’s business, which was a, uh, an education business around mind body medicine and yoga and meditation.
[00:01:17] And we were able to, you know, tr train th thousands and thousands of meditation teachers and kind of mainstream many of these mind body medicine principles into the world. Um, and have then was a serial entrepreneur after that, did many different businesses, um, over the years and then found my way to the cannabis industry in.
[00:01:37] 13, where I was one of the first consultants of a vape pen company here in California, and that opened my eyes to the fact that this industry was just gonna be an enormous. Enormous industry that had so much potential and you know, nobody really knew the realities of it. Um, there was just all the stigma and, and the bs.
[00:01:58] And so I [00:02:00] realized from my background we were gonna need, you know, well educated, well trained people. And, and over the years, green flour has stepped up to kind of fill that need.
[00:02:08]Bryan Fields: Was there always the idea that the intersection between the educational background and cannabis would merge, Like take us through the origin?
[00:02:14] When did that idea kind of spark for
[00:02:16]Max Simon: you? No, no. I, I was, it was 2013 when I was, um, so my last business was basically helping other experts move into online businesses and, and so I worked. Thousands of different experts to help them build their businesses and, and kind of create the infrastructure to move online into online education.
[00:02:37] And, and I was just, quite frankly, he bored of helping other people build their businesses, you know, even though it was a successful business, I got. Tired of helping other people. So I was really looking for like, okay, what’s the next thing that I specifically wanna build? And that’s when I got this cannabis consulting gig, which, you know, was so interesting to me because I was a personal consumer for all these years, but just didn’t, [00:03:00] didn’t know a damn thing about the, this kind of legal industry that was developing it.
[00:03:04] But in doing this consulting gig in 2013 in California, I just saw. Man, you know, this is an absolutely miraculous plant and an industry that’ll be way bigger than people are anticipating it. And with my background in education, you know, people are, need to understand, there need some, some credibility and some trust to, to be able to participate in this sector.
[00:03:25] So that’s, that’s what brought us to Green Flower. Was there any like
[00:03:28]Kellan Finney: one moment where you were doing that consulting gig where you were like, Wow, this is exactly where education needs to be brought into this space? When you’re looking at those manufacturers
[00:03:36]Max Simon: back in California, I mean, truth be told, even back then, it was more just seeing the writing on the wall for how big the industry was gonna be.
[00:03:45] Um, and, and so I got initially excited not so much by the, the, the mission more by the business opportunity early on and, and I just said, you know, I was very early in mind body medicine and spirituality. And we built an [00:04:00] enormous industry or enormous business, you know, being the, the, the credibility source, the, the trusted source of information.
[00:04:07] And so it started off very entrepreneurial to me, but in the, in the very beginning we started to, you know, really interview the doctors and interview the scientists and interview the cultivators. And that’s when I. Wow, this is so much more complex, sophisticated, There’s so much more to learn than anybody has any clue of, and that’s what really helped me realize the importance of the education side is it’s not just a, a great business opportunity, it’s that this is really complex and, and misunderstood, and we really need to do a good job of educating people to, to um, lift up the.
[00:04:44] I tip
[00:04:45]Bryan Fields: my hat to you because early on, I mean, 2013 online education was still kind of new. So to take in an approach where cannabis is, the online education is a very, very new approach. I I, I tip my hats. You there? So then what are the first steps, right? Take us through the macro concept, those first [00:05:00] steps.
[00:05:00] When you’re building out an educational platform, it’s a big, big burden to take on that approach. There’s constant changes. There’s, there’s various roles. Where do you start and how do you get.
[00:05:10]Max Simon: And, and to answer that question, I’ll say, you know, green flour has zigzagged a lot over the years. And, and I would say that from 2014, when we founded the company really up until 2018, um, we really tried a bunch of stuff, right?
[00:05:28] We tried stuff and so we tried stuff from doing, you know, I produced the first Cannabis Health Summit online. Which had like 30,000 people attend to it. It was nuts, you know, an enormous reach. Um, so we did, you know, online summits in, in different capacities. I did the Cannabis Health Summit, the Cannabis Business Summit, the Cannabis Entrepreneurs Summit, the C P D Summit, you know, so we did like these online educational forums.
[00:05:52] We produced a lot of kind of short form. Content, um, where you were, you know, sitting down with experts and talking to ’em about [00:06:00] different content or different subjects in the industry. So we did like a lot of random stuff. Um, and some of it stuck, some of it didn’t stick. Some of it was exciting and some of it was just a total dud, but really it was like 20, like I said, around kind of 2018 when I started to realize like, okay, the, the professional education.
[00:06:21] Side of this where you’re training people to be professionals and succeed in the industry is where we were finding business traction and why, where we were finding kind of that, that product to market fit. And so we started to double down into building, you know, really professional based education programs around that time and, and that’s when the business really started to gain its level of traction that it has today.
[00:06:46]Kellan Finney: What was the first, uh, professional level that you guys built from like a training?
[00:06:50]Max Simon: I mean, funny and to say this, but we did like a, a cannabis licensing program in the beginning where we were working with some of the, at the time, the [00:07:00] only people doing real license consultation that was winning those licenses.
[00:07:03] And so we did like a program on on getting license cert licensure, which was successful. And actually our first real smash hit was when we did the cannabis fundamentals program and it was to train people in cannabis fundamentals. For participating in the industry. And I remember we released that program and sold like seven or 800 units, like right out of the gate.
[00:07:24] And that was when we really realized like, Oh, that’s, you know, that’s, that’s working better than anything we’ve done to date.
[00:07:31]Bryan Fields: Is, is there a certain demographic that kind of tends towards this? Is it, is it the older generation? It’s the younger generation, like cannabis is all over. Is there a certain generation that tends to, to spew one
[00:07:40]Max Simon: way?
[00:07:41] Well, so that’s a great question and, and I think it probably is best answered by how the business has developed because there are definitely people that skewed to different stuff. So today the business has these three limbs. One limb is that we, um, partner with colleges and universities to power their cannabis programs.
[00:07:59] Um, [00:08:00] Continuing education department, meaning it’s through the kind of workforce development department where lots of those people are, tend to be, um, over 30 and in fact, over 40 is usually the medium. They’re people that come from other professions or other industries, but now they’re looking to get into cannabis.
[00:08:18] And so the, the, the college and university channel serves that market, you know, the older. Kind of job seeker who’s trying to transition into this industry from existing experience or existing background in other spaces. Um, and we’re finding a lot of traction in that space, you know? Then we have ganger, which is our cannabis sommelier program, and that program tends to attract hardcore.
[00:08:42] Cannabis lovers. I mean, at the end of the day, and, and it’s split between people that are in the industry already and working in all sorts of roles. I mean, we have people in retail and cultivation and management all the way up to the CEOs. Um, you know, and, and then the other half of the people is people that have been smoking for [00:09:00] 30 years and now they’re looking to have something that validates their level of, of understanding and knowledge about.
[00:09:06] You know the sophisticated elements of cannabis, the more nuanced connoisseur elements of cannabis . So that program appeals to that. And then we have the third limit of the business that is becoming the training backbone of the cannabis operators themselves. Meaning we’re training their employees and that, you know, is getting, giving us a crazy look into who works inside the industry because you’re seeing, you know, everybody.
[00:09:29] In that space from, from their new hires all the way up to their leadership. And you know, we’re touching kind of everybody in that domain that works inside the industry. So it’s a business that touches all these different people in different ways based upon the channel. They’re kind of coming through. I wanna go
[00:09:44]Kellan Finney: back to, uh, the university program.
[00:09:47] How challenging was it to first to get your first program with, uh, a college university because it’s cannabis? And how much has that conversation changed in the last four
[00:09:56]Max Simon: years? It was [00:10:00] so hard to crack that nut. Um, I mean, I I, it’s funny cuz now today, so we have 30, as of today, 33. College and university partnership.
[00:10:10] Congratulations. Wow. It’s been a while. You know, it just announced, I just announced a whole series of ’em, and we’re gonna end the year probably like closer to 40 if you can believe it. Um, which is, which boggles my mind because in, from, you know, I started approaching schools in 2017 is when, when I personally started going to schools and, and you know, the response was some version.
[00:10:32] No, um, that sounds really interesting. Snicker, snicker, we’ll run it through the PPO and then, you know, go away, um, to, this does sound really interesting, but we’re gonna get everybody in our university involved in the conversation to see if we can get everybody comfortable in it. And, and so then it almost always got killed at that point because, you know, you had 50 different people’s opinions about cannabis, which doesn’t go well.
[00:10:56] Um, and it was, it was impossible. I mean, quite frankly, it was just not [00:11:00] working at all. We kept going because of the fact that, you know, most people don’t know this if you’re not studied in, in the sector, but, but there’s thousands and thousands of colleges and universities across the country. You know, their business is education.
[00:11:14] So if you’re in the education business, it’s, it’s one of the, the best channels to participate in. And what I learned is that once you. Kind of get a few people on board. You know, schools are kind of like sheep. They, they end up following the pack. And so we knew that if we could get a few of these over the line, it should.
[00:11:33] Quote and Quote create this domino effect. And so we started in 2017, got laughed out of every room all the way until 2019. Um, years of approaching schools and going through this process and getting really, like, we got really, really close with one school and then the president at Signature cancelled it It was like, Aah heartbreaking.
[00:11:53] You know, And our, especially being our first one, . Um, Yeah. Months of diligence and, [00:12:00] and, and then yeah. Killed literally at the last possible second that we thought, and we thought this was going to signature, you know, know the guy comes back, I’ll apologize ap. So anyways, all this is happening. And then finally in 2019 1 of our investors is, is, um, I don’t know if he was on the board or just really close to the board at Florida Atlantic University in Florida.
[00:12:21] And, and he basically Kind of personally vouches for us. And they say, Oh sure, what the hell? We’ll give it a try. And we get the first program finally over the line and we get it launched. And it has, it’s not even tremendously successful. It was just a little bit successful. But it was enough for us to then start to go to the other schools and say, See, Florida Atlantic did this.
[00:12:42] Do you want to get on board? And it’s true. All it just started going, Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, and then particularly Covid really helped us because here comes covid. All of a sudden, all these schools are in total disruption mode. None of them are prepared to switch [00:13:00] everything online. They’re all worried about their budgets and cannabis is deemed essential.
[00:13:05] And so it has this kind of boost in a, a, you know, a stigma standpoint that makes ’em feel okay. And so we went from two, or, uh, I guess we were just at. We’d signed two, maybe three schools before Covid started, and then now we’re at 30, 32 or 33, you know, here in 2022. So it’s been a, a crazy few years of building since that time.
[00:13:30]Bryan Fields: I definitely have my beef with traditional education, but I, I mean from your pitch standpoint, right? You’re going to these universities, you’re giving students an opportunity to transition, to get a skill set into an industry that’s absolutely exploding, right? Like at least the universities can agree they are going to be jobs to help these students kind of.
[00:13:46] Progress forward. So it’s, it’s kind of sad to hear those stories, but it, it’s, it’s it’s eye-opening, right? Because those are the experiences that are happening and that’s what’s so critical for you and your mission of kind of helping bring the, the stigma and reducing that normalization of [00:14:00] cannabis to the forefront.
[00:14:01]Max Simon: And, and you know, I have this same beef with higher education. Um, I hated college. I hated it. I literally hated the academic infrastructure of college because it was a waste of time and I was studying and being forced to do all this other stuff. But where we found a, an amazing niche, which is totally reinvigorated my belief in it is, you know, these continuing education programs are like focused credentials that are shorter and.
[00:14:30] Um, focused on, on skills and, and workforce development needs. And so, you know, we love operating in this university pseudo system. You know, we’re not an undergraduate program. We’re not in these degree programs. They’re not these huge lengthy time processes. They’re shorter skills based workforce development programs.
[00:14:49] And, and as a result of that, We’re just seeing all the stu the, the stories of students saying, I came to this. I didn’t know much. I took the programs. I now know cannabis. I was able to take this and [00:15:00] parlay it into a job. You know, it’s short and tight and I could do it on my own. And so I really love this continuing education environment because it, it’s focused, it’s tight, it’s cheaper, it’s faster.
[00:15:11] But it actually is very, very skills based kind of workforce development based. So it’s kind of reinvigorated my love for higher education, being in this little tiny silo that exists within that universe. I mean, it’s
[00:15:23]Kellan Finney: also like a rare gem too for universities because you’re providing a solution for kids that wanna get in the industry and now they have the ability to gain the skills to actually be successful in the
[00:15:34]Bryan Fields: in.
[00:15:35]Max Simon: Yeah,
[00:15:35]Bryan Fields: exactly. Let’s talk about some of those skills. Uh, I know you’ve got some announcements coming up. We’d love to hear kind of what they can gain from the program. Yeah,
[00:15:43]Max Simon: so the, the, the programs that are, you know, just about to come out that are actually not even through the universities to be clear, um, that’s not true.
[00:15:51] Some of the community colleges are offering some of these programs, but, you know, , the cannabis industry is such a. A complex place, and as [00:16:00] somebody who’s now been here long enough to understand all the channels, you realize that there is so much to learn about this industry and how it operates and how it works.
[00:16:10] And where we’ve been finding kind of greater and greater levels of success is getting more and more narrow in terms of what you’re training people around. And so we have these three. Programs that are built by the, the GF Institute, which is a, and actually a, a another part of the business. But it’s the part of the business that, that is, um, about developing standards.
[00:16:33] And so we, we gathered together 40. Cannabis operators that had collectively 25,000 employees in this space. And we worked with them to create these kind of shorter credential programs that are designed to be a baseline level of proficiency for that sector. So we have three sectors. We have the dispensary associate program, the cultivation Technician program, and the manufacturing agent program because we have [00:17:00] found, quite frankly, The most amount of people that are getting hired and are coming into the industry are coming in to work at retail, work in cultivation, or work in the the manufacturing and the brand building process.
[00:17:11] We’ve got these three programs now that took, you know, about 15 months to really create that, that consensus mechanism with the steering committee, with the, with the people in the GF Institute to say, now these, they’re only about six to eight hour programs are the baseline level of proficiency that somebody needs to have to work in cannabis retail.
[00:17:33] Or to work in cannabis cultivation or to work in cannabis manufacturing. And so I’m really excited about these programs cuz it’s, it’s the first time from my standpoint that we’ve got programs that are so pinpointed towards, these are the skills you need to get jobs in the industry and here are the sectors of the industry that you can get jobs around if you take these programs.
[00:17:54] So that’s, that’s been kind of our big push coming into the end of this. Were [00:18:00] they 1 0 1
[00:18:00]Bryan Fields: level classes? To clarify? And are, are there any differences from like a state by
[00:18:04]Max Simon: state standpoint? They’re definitely baseline level of proficiency. So for example, you know, in the cultivation program you learn the stages of the plant growing cycle.
[00:18:17] Right. So you learn about each stage of the plant, You learn about the fundamentals of growing cannabis, watering, lighting, soil mediums, nutrients. You know, you learn kind of baseline levels of proficiency. Um, and then you learn about, you know, uh, harvesting and processing and curing and storage. Um, because in the cultivation process, that’s everything that happens, right from seed to harvest, basically seed to production.
[00:18:44] But as I’m saying this, you. know We’ve learned this is baseline level of proficiency, but I’m willing to bet you that 99% of people that will listen to this podcast actually doesn’t even have that baseline level of proficiency. They don’t know all those stages of the cycles. They don’t, [00:19:00] none understand what nutrients do.
[00:19:01] They don’t understand the harvestings, you know, and so, As simple and foundational as they are, um, everybody that goes through these programs learns a ton because nobody really has had proper education to be in this space unless they’ve learned on the job. And even then, you know, questionable how, uh, how uh, comprehensive that learning really is.
[00:19:23]Bryan Fields: Yeah. So each
[00:19:24]Kellan Finney: program’s very, very different. Was there one that was a little more challenging to put together than the other ones?
[00:19:29]Max Simon: I mean, the manufacturing program is so cool. The manufacturing program goes through each extraction methodology, so you really like understand ethanol versus CO2 versus solventless base because, you know, that’s how the products are being made.
[00:19:44] So, so you, we had to find the experts to, to walk us through each of these extraction processes. And then we went through each cannabis product type, um, you know, vape pens. Flower and pre-rolls. [00:20:00] Um, Kind of everything and, and you walk through the manufacturing process that can be used to make these products.
[00:20:07] And, and so it was very technical. I think that’s my point. It was a very technical based program, but the end result is that, man, you know, talk about something that’s value oriented. Like if you wanna learn to build cannabis products and learn the manufacturing process of how these products are made, you go through this eight hour training and bam, you know, you’ll, you’ll.
[00:20:29] S you’ll be so far ahead of the pack. Um, so that was the most program, difficult program to create. But I also have a tremendous amount of optimism about the influence of that program because it’ll give people such a great foundation to be able to succeed in cannabis manufacturing. That’s the point. ,
[00:20:45]Bryan Fields: how was the response been with, let’s say, large operators in this space?
[00:20:48] Obviously, some of these MSOs are scaling incredibly fast and having a resource like yours in order to bring credential employees is probably making a massive difference. How’s been the response?
[00:20:58]Max Simon: Well, so I, I’d like to [00:21:00] answer that in a few phases. You know, we’ve been talking to a lot of these operators for many years, um, especially the big guys.
[00:21:08] And, um, I can tell you that only this year, and I mean, I’m afraid to say this, but only like really the second half of the year as everybody’s gotten the, you know, the living heck kicked out of ’em, have these operators started to say to themselves, You know, we really should probably do more for our people.
[00:21:28] I, I, I don’t know how else to say that, but there’s been a, a, a a pretty noticeable. Tonality shift that has taken place this year from the operators. And, and I’m grateful to say, just like with the schools after all these years of feeling like we were kind of hitting a, a wall, talking to these people about training and educating their people this year has had a seismic shift in that.
[00:21:54] And, and we’ve had, you know, literally. Some of the largest operators sign on to now get their whole [00:22:00] en entire company certified through these programs. Um, and so that’s, I’m grateful to say is a, but a very new development that has happened really in the second half of this year, um, that I’m grateful for.
[00:22:12] And I think, again, it goes back to the very simple explanation that a lot of these operators have realized they can’t just. Blindly funding their operations, you know, forever. And so we’ve gotta get their costs and their culture under control. And, and that’s, you know, a lot of times about your people and about making sure your people have the education and training and, you know, guidance that need to be successful.
[00:22:34] So there’s been a, a grateful sea change just recently after lots of years of feeling like this was not gonna work. .
[00:22:43]Bryan Fields: It’s one thing to have an expensive mistake from an inexperienced operator, right? It’s another thing when you compare that to what it would’ve cost from an educational standpoint, if you would’ve trained your team in order to avoid those mistakes, and unfortunately it seems like a lot of those operators maybe have run into those mistakes and realized maybe there’s a more cost effective solution that would be [00:23:00] helpful for us.
[00:23:00]Max Simon: Well, and the turnover is so crazy. Like just , just this week we were going through our list of kind of, um, you know, people that we’ve, we’ve worked with deeply in the curriculum development process over the years. And I, I would, I mean this is probably a little over far reach, but I would say that somewhere north of nor, definitely north of 50%, maybe even north of 75% weren’t at the same company they were at when we did the process.
[00:23:29] You know, it was like, so ma and you know, and this is like the CEO level. I mean, I couldn’t tell you how many of these groups I went to and I was like, Oh, Jesus, the CEO’s not there anymore. Oh man. CEO’s not there anymore. Like over and over and over again. I was seeing this happen. So I think the real issue that we’re tackling is the turnover issue is so expensive.
[00:23:51] The turnover issue, and you know, we are so deeply embedded with these HR groups. We know that. You know, the cost to recruit people, to interview [00:24:00] people, to hire people, to train people, you know, to provide all the infrastructure. It’s expensive. It’s really expensive, and I think that for whatever reason, and I don’t understand it, these cannabis companies just kind of turned a blind eye to the fact that their turnover was what it was and high as it was, and expensive as it was, was.
[00:24:19] But now in this environment, they’re saying we can’t. Can’t do that. And so, quite frankly, even just providing training pathways that people have to go through over the series of a few months will extend the shelf life of employees. And even at that like very baseline level of business, it’s like if you can get another few months outta your employees, the programs pay for themself.
[00:24:39] Don’t forget about the culture boost, Forget about the more effectiveness of your team, the better results that they. This will pay for itself and that’s what’s being proven out now through all these operators coming on board. But boy, it’s taken us years to get that message. To get through.
[00:24:55]Kellan Finney: Why do you think it took so long for
[00:24:56]Max Simon: the message to get through?
[00:24:57] I mean, I really think that a, a lot [00:25:00] of the, the, the cannabis operators that are more than a 10 person shop, right? Because the truth is there’s, there’s a, you know, a huge portion of our market that’s, I mean, maybe not 10, but you know, sub 20, sub 30 people, small groups, and, and those people actually do tend to treat their employees better, and they do tend to be more caring, and they do tend to embrace training more in that whole thing.
[00:25:24] The problem is, is that that, you know, the industry also has this whole other bucket of people that are super well funded and, and are, have money and have the business background, and I just feel like they, that group of people. Definitely felt like money was always gonna be there, so, so they didn’t have to take this seriously.
[00:25:44] And also were so intertwined in the expansion plans, the licensing and all the other stuff, that it was just kind of an afterthought. And when you, you know, when you brought it up, it was just kind of like, you know, and my list of priorities, I’m not gonna make that a big priority. [00:26:00] And I just feel like, quite frankly, it’s just caught up to them.
[00:26:02] And now that they can’t, their money’s dried up. Their turnover is an issue and it’s very expensive, and they are forced now to take this seriously because they’re bleeding. You know, they’re bleeding and like you kind of can’t, can’t ignore it. No, it’s, it’s
[00:26:18]Bryan Fields: perfectly said. I think there’s so many reasons why they, they wanted to do it, but just didn’t prioritize it.
[00:26:23] And then when they didn’t have the type of capital that they had, because they were burning cash incredibly fast, they all had to look inwards. And the easiest way to do that is be like, All right, well, let’s stop having to, to hire new people on a regular basis. Let’s extend that, that month to month standpoint.
[00:26:36] And like you said, Max, like if they stay an extra two or three months and it pays for itself, plus we have to train. It’s a win-win for all. I guess my question to you is, hypothetically, have you ever had any conversations with the government in regards to helping kind of lift the industry as a whole?
[00:26:50]Max Simon: Yeah, I mean, we, we, first off, one of the things that Green Flour’s done is, um, there is training requirements in many states, you know, many different states [00:27:00] around the country has, whether it’s retail training requirements or, um, there’s food safety training requirements, um, and, and so on. And so green flour is accredited.
[00:27:10] Every state where that training is, um, offered to employees. And because of that, we then work with the, the government agencies, you know, the, the, the cannabis task force in each of those states. Um, on top of that, we have a partnership with a group that is kind of the training arm of the fda. Um, and so we have our inroads there and.
[00:27:30] Um, ultimately what I would tell you is that first and foremost training will become, um, required upon federal legalization. It, this is a heavily regulated industry and every heavy regulated industry has training requirements. So there, there’s a inevitability that, um, you know, federal legalization will bring forward certain level of training and educational requirements, and that will lift up the industry and its nature.
[00:27:58] I think, you know, like. [00:28:00] Even the operators, a lot of these government companies, they, they, their government agents, they come from knowing nothing about cannabis. And so they step into this world and it’s just a fire hose. And so I think just like operators, they’re trying to, they’re trying their best to prioritize the priorities.
[00:28:17] And they’re failing a lot of the time because they’re just kind of guessing at these things. But I would say that it’s, you know, kind of in the mix of their consideration to help use training to live up the industry. But it’s 1 of 500 other things that they’re also trying to, to tackle and figure out.
[00:28:33] Do you guys currently
[00:28:34]Kellan Finney: have some, uh, federal guidance in your certification programs like OSHA stuff or anything like
[00:28:39]Max Simon: that? Yep. We do. We, we have, um, we actually are just about to finish. I was hoping by this podcast, um, I would be able to, to, to claim it, but we haven’t yet. So we’re just a, in the final throws of this multi-year antsy, uh, accreditation process, Ansy is the, basically the international standard setting body for, for standards.
[00:28:59] Um, [00:29:00] and we will have the. Cannabis food safety equivalent, meaning right now, even food safety, um, requirements, people are doing kind of generic food safety training. Um, and we have the cannabis. Centric version of that, that’s now in the final stages of being accredited, um, which will be offered to all the operators to do things like that.
[00:29:23] So, you know, but this is, it’s another good example of like, you know, you have to build something that’s cannabis centric, cuz that doesn’t even exist. And then you have to spend years going through the accreditation process and them asking the literal, you know, dumbest questions you could imagine. Um, and getting through this whole process just to have the cannabis equivalent of food safety
[00:29:45] So it’s, everything’s
[00:29:47]Kellan Finney: harder in
[00:29:47]Max Simon: cannabis. Every, everything is harder, takes longer, you’ll get told. So much more than you expect. Um, but that’s also, you know, personally, why I’ve loved being in cannabis so much is [00:30:00] personally, it has made me such a resilient leader. Um, you know, I just, I, it’s shocking to me how many times we’ve been told, No, this won’t work.
[00:30:09] We can’t do it. I, and blah, blah, whatever it is, just some version of no. and have had to move around it somehow, whether it’s through that person or through another service or through another option or coming back or whatever. But that’s just kind of what you have to do. And you do it enough times. You start to realize, I can do this with everything
[00:30:26] You know, I can be this resilient with everything in my life. And that’s, That’s a gift. A gift,
[00:30:31]Bryan Fields: Yeah. It’s perfectly sad. At a certain point, you just don’t feel it anymore. You’re like, I, Well, onto the next, we’ll figure it out from there. Exactly. So give us a sneak peek into the, the GIA program. Is it cannabis small?
[00:30:42] Yay. Give us some, some insights into that.
[00:30:44]Max Simon: This is my favorite thing in the world to talk about because I personally think it’s like the most fun and interesting thing that we do. So, um, the origin story here is that me and the co-founder of Gia, Derek, were sitting on a couch smoking a joint. Just absolutely.[00:31:00]
[00:31:00] Hating on how bad the service was at retail. Just like absolutely hating on how terrible the service is. And, and I spend a lot of time traveling around the country, you know, oftentimes training these, these companies and you just see, like, I would, I hate to say this, but I would probably say like eight outta 10 times the recommendations that people in retail give to consumers is, Agree.
[00:31:22] It, it’s, it’s, it’s really terribly off base. So we were riffing about this and, and saying, Gotta be a way we can fix this issue. But, you know, you could do bud tender training, but people don’t really care about that. So who, who in other industries has created a, a master of can of, of products and service?
[00:31:41] Basically, that was the question. Who in other industries has created a masters of products and service? And when we started asking that question, it was obvious, you know, Wine Sommers exist there. There’s actually a program in the beer industry called Cerrone where people get certified to be cerrone’s.
[00:31:58] There’s coffee cups, you know, [00:32:00] there’s, um, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s train professionals and, and actually every sector that have a certain level of qualification that distinguishes them. And so we realized that and we started studying, uh, the framework of these programs and looking at how.
[00:32:18] Structure looks and we took that structure and then we rallied together this group of 18 individuals. Called the GGE Council that has about 600 years of cannabis experience. And we said, if we wanna train people to be experts in products, experts in assessment, and experts in service, because those are the, the pillars of what these other industries really bring to the table, how would we do it?
[00:32:39] And so we spent three years. Building the curriculum of what needs to be included in training people as masters of cannabis products and service. We built this GIA systematic assessment protocol, which is basically a, a, a, a methodology for assessing cannabis using, um, you know, aroma flavor, [00:33:00] experience and the, the, the visual, the appearance of it.
[00:33:03] Um, and then we built the app to be able to walk people through it. We built this live curriculum so that we could train people on these assessment methodologies to develop their pallets and understand how to recognize aromas and flavors and understand, you know, what good looks like and what doesn’t.
[00:33:18] And then we, we bought a campus in Humboldt. We, we got this 250 acre campus in Humbolt where now people can come into on a monthly basis and do this training. And so, Spent almost, it was almost three years, two and a half years building the, the, just the infrastructure of it, the training online programs, the curriculums, the apps, all that other stuff.
[00:33:37] Launched it in the beginning of 2021. The whole year’s program sold out in three weeks the first year. Um, and so we sold the whole thing out in the first month and then spent the year putting people. Right. And, and it was incredibly eye-opening because, you know, we had to create an examination process to validate if people could pass this criteria.
[00:33:59] And [00:34:00] then we had lots of people fail the exams and it was this like big dramatic thing. And, and still to this day, a third of the people that take those exams still, even with all the things we do, still fail ’em. Um, it’s, it’s a difficult thing to get through. But, you know, you go through this whole process in year one, it.
[00:34:17] It’s emotional, but you know, it works. And then we, I know from building these educational programs, you have to just kind of, year two is really where the rubber meets the road. Cause you can make anything sound appealing and sexy outta the gate. And, and then you need to see if it holds weight. And fortunately we, we sold out year two as well.
[00:34:34] And so we’ve been certifying everybody through year two. This year we’ve really got the processes dialed in and, and now we’ve got 165 certified goias out in the community. People that have gone through and gotten certified. Um, and they’re, uh, You know, doing everything from, like I said, we’ve got CEOs and lawyers and researchers all the way to people that are now running retail management or running product development of, of a lot of these, these growing [00:35:00] companies.
[00:35:00] So it’s been this amazing process where you just get to absolutely geek out on all things cannabis and then study by practicing assessing cannabis, and you know, really learning the smells, the aromas, the flavors, and how those translates to the effects. And so it’s such. It’s an amazingly cool process where you get so intimately connected to the plant and in that process you really learn how to communicate to other people about all the nuances that make cannabis what it is.
[00:35:28]Kellan Finney: So with the wine sommelier, I, isn’t there a massive fail rate? Like that’s a really, really challenging program to get through as well, right? So how do you balance launching a program and having individuals pay for it, and then knowing that it needs to be, uh, tough enough? To create a, a high quality individual, but also not fail everyone like that.
[00:35:51] Sounds like a really challenging balance.
[00:35:53]Max Simon: It’s really emotional. I mean, I’ll tell you still to this day, you know, we run these events every month and, and right now, [00:36:00] Still a third of the people fail every month. Um, and, and it’s, it’s heartbreaking and it leads to a ton of emotion. But again, you know, you, there’s a, um, I’ve been building education programs long enough to know a few things.
[00:36:13] You know, one is, um, it’s all about the vision of what you’re trying to do. And the vision of Gja is that we’re still certifying people in a hundred years. That was. That was the, the vision that we created, that no matter what happens to the rest of the business, you know, we want GGI to be still certifying professionals in a hundred years.
[00:36:33] And, and because of that long term thinking, you really start to build foundational things with a lot of scrutiny. You know, so you do less, but you do those things really, really accurately and really, really well. And so, you know, we’ve communicated to all the Gja students, like, you know, we’re building this to be.
[00:36:52] There, there’s, this is a no-bullshit examination process. You know, you’re not gonna just show up and pass. You have to study and [00:37:00] you have to learn and, and you have to show up prepared. And then we hold to that, you know, we’ve got a nice tight criteria for the exam where you, you know, the, the multiple choice part of it.
[00:37:11] You can only miss 10, 10 out of the hundred. The service exam you have, you have to hit all the service points that we’ve mapped out in the GIA protocols. And if you don’t hit all those, All of ’em. You fail the service. and then you have to do this assessment exam where you fall with, you have to fall within a one point radius of the assessment on, on, you know, either side.
[00:37:32] So you know, if you judge it a 6.5, it has to either be a 5.5 or a 7.5, you know, within that, that range basically to pass. So we defined all the criteria and we’ve put people through it. And in the beginning lots of people were failing and it was terribly painful. Um, but we had to. You know, acknowledge this is the process of building this a hundred year thing.
[00:37:54] And now we’ve gotten better and better at study materials and their study groups and study guides and all this stuff. Um, [00:38:00] it’s on now one in three, you know, a third are failing instead of half, which is better. But it’s maintaining the integrity of the program and it’s making people really, really earn it.
[00:38:09] And thus, when you do earn it, it gains a certain level of respect in the industry. You have to earn it. Um, and. So that’s how we’ve kind of tackled it. It’s not perfect yet, and it’s still very emotional and you know, you wouldn’t believe how upset people get when they fail, but, We’ll keep going. ,
[00:38:28]Bryan Fields: that has to be such a delicate balance for you as well, right?
[00:38:30] Because you want to see the course succeed, but you also have to ensure that it has some stability and some credentials, because if every single person passed, it wouldn’t really have as much value to it because they’re integrity. Yeah. Everyone would be like, Well, you know, I could just fill out the paperwork and get it also.
[00:38:44] But the fact that people fail and honestly, probably the more, the better I is from an integrity standpoint of like the, the, the actual fight of getting through it and the studying and the showing up and the putting the effort in. Kind of allows for that to kind of be put on that pedestal, like probably the industry [00:39:00] needs.
[00:39:00] So I mean that, that has to be an incredible challenge. I guess my next question would be, do you foresee something like that being at like consumption lounge, Like having someone like that being stationed there to come around and make a recommendation based on the personal’s individual needs of recommendations.
[00:39:13]Max Simon: Yeah. Um, and you know, I just, I’ll just say too, I, I got certified in May and, and Did you pass
[00:39:19]Bryan Fields: Congratulations, by the way, .
[00:39:23]Max Simon: I was thinking about, you know, it was like my greatest fear of how tremendously embarrassing it would be if like the person that created the program couldn’t make it through the exams.
[00:39:31] Um, unfortunately I did pass, but I’ll tell you, it, it is one of the most nerve-wracking damn things you’ve ever done. And, and it’s such a funny. You know, there’s such polarity in it because like here you are, you’re literally, you’re literally smoking weed for your. Right. I mean the, the, the, the thought process of it is so funny to me to think about you’re smoking weed for an exam and you’re just trying your best to like break it all apart.
[00:39:56] And where everybody fails is in the flavor and Roma part of it [00:40:00] because it’s up to your palette and it’s up to the consensus mechanism that happened from the people judging the, the process. So anyways, the point is just, it’s, it’s scary and it’s difficult and you’re nerve-wracking, but the people that go through it and earn it, Most of them would tell us it’s literally the highlight of their lives.
[00:40:17] you know, they really feel like it’s one of the greatest accomplishments of their lives getting through the program. Um, and so, and then when you fail, it’s like utterly heartbreaking. And just the emotion is so much, there’s such big emotions that come from it. But again, you know, We’ve got our vision.
[00:40:34] This is this, this should be here in a hundred years, still training people to be masters of cannabis service and playing that level of role in the industry. Um, and to answer your question, you know, that was the original vision, is that we should have a GGE in every retail shop, in every consumption lounge.
[00:40:52] That that was, you know, that was the, the tactical goal is we wanna, we want a gaja and every retail shop and every consumption lounge, because [00:41:00] they’re the ones trained to be masters of cannabis service. So where does that service take place? Takes place in retail and takes place in consumption lounges.
[00:41:07] We’re, we’re, um, you know, we’re far away from being there. We’re far, far away from being there, but that’s the beauty of a hundred year vision. You know, you kind of just keep, keep working on it.
[00:41:18]Bryan Fields: It has to be a fun team building effort, right? People come to the campus, how long are they there for?
[00:41:22]Max Simon: Two days, two full days.
[00:41:24] Um, and it’s, they’re packed. You start at nine and oftentimes they’ll go till like 10 o’clock at night, just geeking out. I mean, it’s like the geekiest cannabis thing you’ve ever done. You’re like opening it up and you’re looking at it through the jewelers loop and you’re smelling and you’re picking out the aromas.
[00:41:40] But, but to people like me who love cannabis, who love everything about cannabis, It’s, it’s the thrill of a lifetime because you really, And the thing that’s so cool for me is, and this was the thesis of the program, is once you go through it, you can smell something and you can tell people the quality of that.
[00:41:59] You can [00:42:00] tell people the direction of what the effect profile will be. You can tell people how much they should consume of it based upon the, the properties of it to get the ideal effect. You can get really sophisticated and accurate with how you provide that level of guidance to people. And it’s cool that it works, you know?
[00:42:19] I mean, at the end of the day, that’s the point, is that that people become real true masters of cannabis service. And that’s why those roles are now being, um, kind of embraced in the industry, is they’re, they’re playing that manager role or the menu curation role or. They’re, they’re taking on the role of marketing lead because they understand the nuances of how to communicate and differentiate the product.
[00:42:38] So we’re seeing this amazing, amazing followthrough of people that are getting certified and then using that to leverage that in, in their, in their careers.
[00:42:49]Bryan Fields: What, do you guys have
[00:42:50]Kellan Finney: any, uh, individuals that attend the program that disagree with some of the content that’s being being taught? Good question.
[00:42:56]Max Simon: We get arguments all the time just [00:43:00] about the assessment. Um, It’s really the assessment accuracy of the exams. That’s it. That’s it. I is, is where people will say, you know, , I judged this, this way and you guys judged it this way, and they’ll, you know, well, the people will fight tooth and nail about those different quality assessment things.
[00:43:21] And it’s really tricky. I mean, you know, it’s really a tricky thing because. Although the instructors are truly the most experienced cannabis people pro on earth, I mean, there’s not a, a large group of people that have been doing this for 10, 20 years in the legacy space or in Prop 2 15 environment in California.
[00:43:43] And then have also transitioned to being such major players in legal space. Because that’s the thing, it’s, it’s, you have to hold both things in cannabis. You have to hold the love, the culture and the legacy and all that stuff. And the fact that we’re in a newly regulated legal market that’s a [00:44:00] totally different environment.
[00:44:01] So, So these 18 people are, all Coming from that legacy background, but participating in this space. And you know, it’s like swami chaitanya is one of the judges who’s been judging the Emerald Cup for 18 years and he’s the one doing the assessments. So like, are you gonna fine? You can challenge swami’s assessments, you can, but like, who’s more qualified than him?
[00:44:22] You know what I mean? Like there’s a certain point where you just gotta say like, these are the people that know their shit. Um, So, you know, we, we kind of try our best to just like, let the reality of the program speak for itself. But yeah, people argue about the assessment criteria all the time.
[00:44:37]Bryan Fields: That’s a good question though, Calvin ,
[00:44:40]Kellan Finney: what is one
[00:44:40]Bryan Fields: factor statistic about creating an educational ecosystem that would shock the cannabis
[00:44:45]Max Simon: industry?
[00:44:47] That it’s so freaking difficult and it takes so much time to get the consensus of what’s really supposed to be included. Um, you know, the, the thing that’s fascinating is cannabis is [00:45:00] a, an industry full of people with huge egos that have no right to have those egos. Um, That, that’s it. They don’t, they don’t have the right, And, and quite frankly, the higher up you go from people that, that have been in the space, the, the more they know, they don’t, they don’t know everything.
[00:45:15] But you have this enormous flood of people coming in that come from other sectors or come from other industries and they, they just, they think they know what good education looks like. They think they know what should go in the program. I think they, but the truth is they don’t know . And it takes a really long time, a really long time to kind of develop these programs.
[00:45:34] So, I guess yeah, that’s, that’s the the point. It just takes forever to do these, deal with
[00:45:39]Bryan Fields: the right way. 20 years from now, we will look back and say, I can’t believe we did that. That is barbaric. Why did we do that in the cannabis industry? What is that?
[00:45:49]Max Simon: Oh, it’s cannabis only being sold in this ultra restricted, ultra limited way.
[00:45:55] You know, I mean, cannabis won’t stay there forever. Um, cuz it [00:46:00] doesn’t deserve to be isolated in this, you know, iron cage of only limited to this thing. Like, we don’t do that to. Pretty much anything. I mean, I guess there’s some things we do, but, um, so can, yeah. Cannabis will be sold everywhere. Cannabis will be sold and consumed everywhere.
[00:46:15] And we’ll look back and go, Why? Why were we so afraid of this thing? That’s so stupid. .
[00:46:20]Bryan Fields: Before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson, learn to pass on to the next generation, what would it be?
[00:46:32]Max Simon: It’s that, um, building resilience. Is an amazingly valuable and important skill and in certain places it’s the most important thing you need to cultivate to succeed and, and I think that’s just what cannabis has taught me is just there you will in this space. Get nos for many months, sometimes in the beginning, [00:47:00] doesn’t really matter what it is.
[00:47:01] Going to schools, you know, it took us a year and a half to get a, a payment provider to accept us to offer financing for our students. You know, we just signed a text messaging service that took us five months to find because we were told no by 25 people, you know, and, and. There’s, there’s, there’s beauty in the nose.
[00:47:23] There’s beauty in, in the rejections because if you can just say, Okay, no problem, and then keep working on it and keep trusting that you’ll find a solution. You learn that, you do, you learn that you do find those solutions and you do find workarounds and you can make it through. I have this, um, that saying that, that, um, success is inevit, uh, no, um, how do I say it?
[00:47:45] That, That, um, everyone can succeed at everything. It’s just that everybody gives up too soon. That’s how I say it. Everybody can succeed at anything. It’s just that everybody gives up too soon. And, and that’s the lesson of the cannabis industry is that we’re still dealing with [00:48:00] tremendous challenges and things, but we’re not giving up and thus we’re succeeding.
[00:48:03] We’re continuing to drive things forward. So I really feel resilience is the name of the game, especially in this sector. ,
[00:48:10]Bryan Fields: that was awesome. I love that. Appreciate you sharing that. All right. Prediction and. education can change stigma. Max, what specific part of education can help with the normalization for the mainstream, for the cannabis
[00:48:23]Max Simon: industry?
[00:48:26] Oh gosh. Well, I think it’s important for people to understand the endocannabinoid system for the simple fact that the biggest public narrative around cannabis is, um, you know, I hope it’s not too bad for. Basically, right. I hope this isn’t, I will tolerate this. The public, you know, the public policy narrative, a lot of these kind of mainstream things, it’s like, well, I guess this is something to tolerate.
[00:48:50] But the, the endocannabinoid system and all the science around it and how it works, demonstrates that, that actually the exact opposite is the truth. That cannabis is [00:49:00] a life saving, life giving supplement that feeds. Our system in a way that literally nothing else on planet Earth can do. And so we need to help people understand, it’s not that this is not bad for you, it’s that that done consciously and, and in the right way.
[00:49:19] This is good for you . And that that’s a, a, you know, a message that is definitely not well received currently because people are still just trying to get used to tolerating this as an alcohol substitute, you know? And. It’s a shame. I think that’s a shame. Kelly,
[00:49:37]Bryan Fields: I’m
[00:49:37]Kellan Finney: gonna piggyback on what Max said, and I think that, uh, once the endocannabinoid system is actually taught in medical school, I think that is gonna be a big one, right?
[00:49:45] Cause I, I’m just gonna rest my case there. I think we have talked about it enough on the show, but, uh, I think once it gets taught in medical schools and doctors start to learn, As part of their degrees. Then as we become standard knowledge, how all the [00:50:00] cannabinoids interact with the human body from a medicinal standpoint will become more public and it’ll just help provide comfort for everyone who’s scared of the plant because they’re just scared cuz they don’t
[00:50:09]Max Simon: know.
[00:50:10] Yeah. And you know, I mean I’ve been using cannabis a long time and, and it wasn’t until green flour that I started to realize. This is my medicine and I’m gonna use it actually in the same way I use all my medicines. My green drinks is, I take it the same dose, at the same times, in the same measured ways, and I do it every single day.
[00:50:31] And, and it, it is my. It is the reason I’ve gotten my ADHD under control. It’s, it’s, it’s so tied to a direct benefit to me personally. And so I think, you know, when you really start to look at it, you realize that lots of us individuals are actually still carrying stigma. We’re, we’re still a little like we do it, but we’re a little concerned about it, or we consume cannabis, but we feel a little embarrassed by it.
[00:50:55] Or we kind of just think about. We’re getting high and, and so be it. Not [00:51:00] necessarily looking at it from a medicinal wellness standpoint. And I think personally going through this journey of being educated and then realizing I was holding so much stigma around this and dropping that to be able to do this with such consistency, I, you know, I take my cannabis twice a day, every same time, every day.
[00:51:16] And measur measured doses. And that’s been life changing for me. Absolutely. Utterly life changing. But to have somebody like me who’s been consuming for so. Is in the industry and then still needs to go through this shedding layer, this like stigma dropping layer, this shame dropping layer to get to a place where I’m like, Yeah, I’m using this every day cause this is good for me.
[00:51:36] You know, this is a benefit to my life. Take taken a long time. So we’re, we’re, we got some work to do.
[00:51:41]Bryan Fields: I, I think it’s also important to remember that it’s not one size fits all, right? Like the same product you take for certain situations is not the same one you take for a relaxer to help you sleep. And I think that’s the massive take home message that I really want people to realize is that there’s different products for different situations and it’s not going to be the first product you buy is gonna be the best one for you.
[00:51:58] It’s going to take a guest test [00:52:00] and revise and starts with understanding you know, what your body likes and educating yourself on the differences of the.
[00:52:06]Max Simon: I always say that if, um, if cannabis history was wiped away, right? All this last 80 years of stigma and war on drugs and all this other stuff, and, and then today, you know, some scientists walked in and discovered this plant and then brought it to the lab and started researching it, it would be celebrated as the single greatest medical discovery of the 21st century that it would be.
[00:52:33] like Wait. Wait Whoa, whoa. So you’re telling me this plant helps me sleep, helps me relax, helps me be creative, helps me connect to spirituality, can, can have measurable effects on cancer, can have measurable effects on depression, measurable effects on anxiety. You know, measurable effects on spasticity, measurable effects on epilepsy.
[00:52:50] I mean, you really start to go down to it. You realize it’s, it’s the most, you know, it’s one of the most incredible plants that exists on planet Earth. [00:53:00] It’s just that we’ve got this huge backlog of nonsense shadowing and coloring it. But you know, like all of us, we’re doing our piece stigma’s going away.
[00:53:09] People will realize the versatility of what this plant can offer humanity is immense. Pretty incredible
[00:53:16]Bryan Fields: hearing you lay it out like that. So Max, for our listeners, they want to get in touch, they wanna start training themselves, and they’re probably interested in the Grier program. Where can they find ya?
[00:53:25]Max Simon: So everything’s at green-flower.com, or you can just Google Green Flower or gogi. Um, you know, the, the, the new GFI programs, the dispensary, associate cultivation technician and manufacturing agent are come coming live in November, and GOGI is opening for our 2023 class in November. So it’s good, good time to be here and uh, yeah.
[00:53:47] Go check it out now is if history repeats itself, Gia won’t, won’t be available for too long until next year and, uh, the GFI programs will, will be available. Awesome.
[00:53:56]Bryan Fields: We will link ’em up in the show notes. Thanks for taking the time. This was fun.
[00:53:59]Max Simon: Yeah, thank you. This was great [00:54:00] guys. Thanks so much.
