Author: Joy

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Science does play a part though. As this product has exploded in popularity, rosin producers have identified which traits make for exceptional rosin quality. The most referenced plant trait for rosin production is the trichome cuticle. Where the bigger the cuticle, the higher the rosin quality. To supply superior cultivars for rosin production, breeders have now turned their attention toward breeding for bigger trichome cuticles.

While the cannabis flower (and its leaf) get the credit for a multi-billion-dollar industry, the trichome is the true workhorse that should garner the spotlight and will continue to drive innovation in consumer-focused cannabis products.

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Part III – Beyond Cannabinoids

Terpenes, thiols, and esters expand Cannabis characterization

U.S. federal regulation of Cannabis based products is inevitable. For regulatory purposes, Cannabis products are likely best categorized as dietary supplements. Dietary supplements are not considered food or medicine. Consumers use dietary supplements for diverse reasons, including improving or maintaining general health and wellness.

The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994 sets the regulatory framework for dietary supplements defining products that contain one or more of the following ingredients: a vitamin, a mineral, an herb or botanical, or a concentrate, metabolite, extract, or combination of these ingredients. Cannabis products are primarily manufactured and marketed as botanical, thereby fitting the description for dietary supplements.

Cannabis contains several hundred naturally occurring ingredients. Beyond the set of unique cannabinoids are compounds that contribute to flavor, color, aroma, and health effects. This broad spectrum of active constituents presents the biggest challenge to characterizing Cannabis products. As a solution, Cannabis characterization should include a comprehensive lexicon of the multiple chemical classes intrinsic to the plant.

The CESC’s Dosing Project initiative addresses the problem by analyzing the terpene content of Type I (THC-dominant) Cannabis flowers. Understanding that flowers are the primary source of all Cannabis botanical products, Dr. John Abrams, co-founder, and Chief Science Officer of the CESC explains the approach, “We started by looking under the light. Our initial goal was to chemically describe subtypes of THC-dominant flowers, the most popular Cannabis product category.”

Terpenes are a class of natural products and dominant constituents in Cannabis essential oil. The CESC has identified (mono)terpenes beta-pinene and limonene, which together serve to define major subtypes of Type I Cannabis. Consequently, the relative amounts of these two terpenes can be used to correlate and ultimately predict the energizing (Sativa) or relaxing (Indica) effect common to smoking or vaporizing different Cannabis flower subtypes.

As a next step, CESC deployed a computational algorithm that evaluates over 500,000 chemical signals using an approach that discriminates Gas Chromatography (GC) results based on sample categories. The GC signals are untargeted (not dependent on the use of calibrated reference standards) allowing for the discovery of new and unanticipated compounds. This approach was developed in collaboration with Veda Scientific and SepSolve Analytical. Leo Welder, CEO of Veda Scientific, explains, “With this new platform, we are identifying new or previously unidentified compounds found in Cannabis flowers and derivative products. Our analysis casts a very broad net.” Veda Scientific, a California-based Cannabis analytical laboratory, uses the untargeted analytical approach to facilitate Cannabis research and development.

Advances in Cannabis science are imperative for the growth of a revitalized Cannabis industry. Years of prohibition have left a gap in the fundamental understanding of how to characterize and categorize the Cannabis plant. Currently, most marketed products are presented in botanical forms or their herbal extracts. As such, the DSHEA pathway is, in the near-term, the best fit for the federal regulation of Cannabis products sold in the U.S. The CESC and its partners have led the industry by introducing novel analysis of Cannabis flowers. As a result, growers and manufacturers can rely on an algorithm that characterizes Cannabis beyond cannabinoids.

The CESC is a non-profit organization that relies on community support for its ongoing investigations. DONATE to Cannabis Science

For more information visit the CESC at www.thecesc.org

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Canadians may soon be able to purchase CBD health and wellness products at their local grocery store after a government scientific advisory panel found CBD ‘safe and tolerable’ as an OTC medication.

Current regulations limit access to CBD products to either doing so by obtaining a doctor’s prescription or making purchases only from cannabis retail shops. After three years of research and deliberation, a scientific advisory panel appointed by Health Canada concluded that CBD is “safe and tolerable for short-term use (a maximum of 30 days) at doses from 20 milligrams per day to a maximum dose of 200 mg/day.” If the changes are approved, grocery stores and other non-cannabis retailers will be able to sell CBD products for human consumption as an OTC medication. *Most legal CBD products are currently manufactured and sold through Canadian licensed cannabis producers.

If the recommendations are approved by Health Canada, the changes would have wide-ranging effects.

• Growth: In 2020 the Canadian Health Food Association (CHFA) reported that the Canadian CBD market could grow to $2 billion (CAD) with a 7% CAGR if regulations were changed to sell CBD as an OTC health product.
• Competition: New market entrants will enter the space without the need to be a cannabis LP or pharmaceutical company.
• Branding: Severe marketing restrictions would be lifted allowing companies to better market their products.
• Global access: Import and export restrictions on CBD products, virtually non-existent now, would be eased.

After a review of over 100 scientific and medical studies, the panel made four primary recommendations about the OTC sale of CBD products for human consumption:

• Ask patients to first consult a doctor if they’re also taking other medications
• Carry statements on potential interactions between CBD and other drugs or alcohol
• Bear “prominently placed” warnings recommending that CBD should not be used by individuals who are pregnant or nursing, or by people with allergies or hypersensitivity to cannabis
• Carry dosing instructions and warnings of potential side effects, especially at high doses

Approval by Health Canada, an agency US FDA, will come by the end of the year. The panel was composed of nine experts, and they endorsed the recommendations in the report unanimously. Based on the previous history of similar panels, full approval of the recommendations is expected to be implemented nation wide.

The panelists also looked into animal usage of CBD and concluded that CBD is safe for dogs at low doses – (less than 4 milligrams per day for every kilogram of animal weight).

Important challenges remain. Can the liberalization of federal CBD regulations turn Canada into a global CBD leader similar to its role in global cannabis? And will this comprehensive, thoughtful review with the weight of Health Canada behind it serve as a model for the FDA, EU EMA, and other government agencies currently considering how best to regulate CBD and protect consumers? As we’ve seen with cannabis liberalization expect surprises.

*CBD topicals and cosmetics were not in the scope of the panel are already widely available

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Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

This week we are joined by Chris Chiari, Co-Founder of 420 Hotels to discuss

• Cannabis Consumption Hotel
• Alcohol vs Cannabis Regulations
• Public Enemy #1
• Haunted Experience & Cannabis hospitality

The 420 Hotels will be amongst the nation’s first hotel chains where guests will be able to consume cannabis onsite in legally licensed lounges. The idea is to convert intimate boutique hotels into high-end, members-only cannabis consumption clubs merged with luxury overnight accommodations.  Chris Chiari is a driven entrepreneur and award-winning film producer with a wealth of experience in corporate strategy and regional politics. Skilled in marketing and messaging, he has engaged exclusively with the cannabis industry since 2011 and is a tireless advocate for cannabis policy reform and fostering industry growth. 

Chris owns and operates Denver’s historic Patterson Inn, the keystone of The 420 Hotels portfolio. As CEO, he uses his expertise in hospitality, operations and community outreach to address the stigmas and ignorance that still exist around cannabis use while creating a unique and upscale environment for cannabis consumption. 

With a deep appreciation for the power of collaboration, Chris has built a wide-ranging network throughout his career spanning corporate boardrooms and the entertainment industry. Public Enemy Number One, a film by Chris Chiari, is a feature documentary about the War on Drugs, and counts entertainer Ice-T as one of its executive producers. The film won awards for Best Producer and Best Storyteller at its world premiere at DOC LA 2019 and Best Documentary at the 2020 Seattle Film Festival. It is currently available for rent on Amazon Prime and streaming on Pluto TV and Tubi. Chris is a former Deputy Director of Colorado NORML, serving for over eight years.. When not working on The 420 Hotels portfolio, Chris likes to stay involved with grassroots advocacy and advancing social reform; he was one of the five members of the petitioners committee of Denver’s successful 2019 psilocybin ballot initiative. In his free time Chris can be found on the rail at a Twiddle show. 

#Cannabis #CannabisCommunity #CannabisHotel

Invest in the 420 Hotels on Republic 

Websites: The Patterson Inn | The 420 Hotels | Republic Crowdfunding
Facebook: @ThePattersonInn | @The420Hotels
Instagram: @12spiritstavern | @thepattersoninn | @the420hotels
Twitter: @PattersonInn

At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev) we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.

8th Revolution Cannabinoid Playbook is an Industry-leading report covering the entire cannabis supply chain 

The Dime is a top 50 Cannabis Podcast 

Contact us directly at [email protected] Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24 Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney 

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[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys. Welcome back to the episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always is ke finning. This week. We’ve got a very special guest, Chris Keri, founder and CEO of four 20 hotels. Chris, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing today? I’m

[00:00:15]Chris Chiari: good. Good morning. Excited to dive in. Ke how are

[00:00:18]Kellan Finney: you doing?

[00:00:19] I’m doing really well, excited to talk about Chris with, uh, cannabis and hospitality and kind of learn a lot more. How are you Brian? I’m

[00:00:26]Bryan Fields: doing well. And I’m excited to talk to a guy with east coast routes who has locations on the west coast, but east coast routes for the record. So Chris far listeners unfamiliar, can you share a little background about yourself?

[00:00:39]Chris Chiari: Uh, favorite sound in regulated cannabis. That’s the opening of a, of a jar. Uh, I am a cannabis consumer, but now ask your question again, cause I just wanted to get that point out well, well, well done a little background about yourself. Uh, I’ve been a consumer for over 30 years. Um, melanoma survivor. When I was 27, I was told don’t make long term [00:01:00] plans.

[00:01:00] I was always a planner. Actually was finding some success, doing marketing and messaging for startups in the irrational exuberance of late nineties and early 2000. But someone giving you five, eight years kind of changes your perspective. If you like plans, you throw ’em out. Uh, in that case, it was about experience about, uh, bucket list, about checking off things that I wanted to accomplish and was now this, uh, shortened timeline.

[00:01:22] I am now a multi-time multi-state failed political candidate. I got that outta my system. Uh, but 11 years ago I got a clean bill. Doctor said we had cut enough MOS off melanoma. He said, right. It’s the one that can kill you. It’s the most dangerous of the skin cancers, but it’s the one that if you get ahead of it, you cut it, you get it, you can get it.

[00:01:39] And, uh, I was lucky enough that it was big and they went deep enough and they got it all. Uh, now 12 years ago, I’m sorry. More than that. It’s 20, 22 years ago now was, uh, that summer of 2000 and. Um, and fast forward, I get this clean bill of health. And within weeks I realized that with this new lease on life, that whatever I did marketing and messaging for startups, [00:02:00] doing consulting for businesses.

[00:02:01] If I got back into the policy or political world, that everything, if I tried to make a film, something I tried to do at 27 years old, right before the diagnosis, I said it would be and would lead and would be focused on the topic of cannabis. And that has been true. Uh, March 7th, 2011, I was in Denver, Colorado for the first time.

[00:02:21] And I was standing on the street in front of this extraordinary property, four 20 east 11th avenue. It was an abandoned, looked like a castle, a French Chateau sitting on a hill. And I pointed up to that house and I said, I wanna turn you into a marijuana bed and breakfast missed out on the property by two weeks, bought it four years ago and am now on the cusp of executing on that.

[00:02:41] Very idea, who am I? I’m a stone. I’m a cannabis consumer who has been passionate about what was always so unique about cannabis from day one. And the first time I experienced it, it was generous. It was given, it was shared. It was community. And what’s funny is [00:03:00] as I’m on the cusp of getting this license, I put a social media post up and an old friend from college said, I’m so happy for you.

[00:03:07] I’m so proud of you because when we were 18, I remember you on the quad with your guitar saying that one day you were gonna make a safe, legal place for your friends to smoke weed together. And I honestly didn’t remember that. Um, but it was fun, right? Relationships that then have that measure of time attached, uh, to realize that your life’s work really is your life’s.

[00:03:28] So who am I a stoner trying my best to normalize and destigmatize cannabis, um, and contribute to the good work that all of us in this space have been doing for, in some cases, generations, the legacy markets. And now with over a decade in the legal markets, when you

[00:03:43]Bryan Fields: were trying to buy that property, and you said what you wanted to turn into, were people telling you you were crazy, were there hesitations then to make those announcements, cuz you could have kept it pretty close to the vest and then made those attempts.

[00:03:54] So take us through that convers.

[00:03:56]Chris Chiari: I had a reaction from a parent [00:04:00] who immediately expressed concern, do I need to be worried? You’re you’re dropping everything. You’re selling your house in Florida. You’re gonna immerse your life in this still illegal space. You know, I’m, I’m in my late forties. So my parents would tell you that never in their lifetime would they have imagined.

[00:04:15] But I did. I sold the house in Florida. I ended up on a road trip, 115,000 miles over 22 months, crisscross in the country. Uh, one cannabis cop, uh, B and pipe trade show to another. And along that way, met, uh, people that were like I said, generous with their information, with the flower they’d cultivated with a willingness to give you a.

[00:04:37] Of what, in some cases proved to me multi-generational operations, uh, from the, um, genetics to the terwar and what the expression of different, uh, cannabis strains in different regions of the country. Things, I didn’t know, because I got sticks and stems, you know, downtown brown. It was all smushed together with, uh, right flattened [00:05:00] weed in a, in a, in a, in a baggy I asked the.

[00:05:02] I got it. From what strain is it? He said, it’s a bag of weed. Do you want it or get out? Right. now go into a store experience. Right? What have we gotten to? What have we developed to, um, is exciting, but still lacking in this legal license space where we can consume it? Yes. Outside New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, anywhere back east, that’s now normalizing, legalizing, consume cannabis anywhere you can smoke a.

[00:05:26] Where exactly. Can you smoke a cigarette in any of these jurisdictions? And like, there, like here in Colorado, mature bureaucracy, if you wanna bring it indoors, you’ll bring it indoors very much like a cigar lounge. And that’s what I’m doing. Uh, what did it look like? Who thought along the way that it was the most, uh, ridiculous idea?

[00:05:43] Well, virtually anyone. I think the most ridiculous thing is that we’re this deep into legalization and normalization. And I am the one bringing to market the first hotel to bring this and add this as amenity. I’ll take it. I’m proud of that work. I’m proud of this business. I’m really [00:06:00] excited to share this location and I believe this is foundational and Keystone to a bigger brand.

[00:06:06] And so I’ll do that. Um, and it will be crowded and we’ll have lounges in lots of places and lots of iterations of it. And I cannot wait. The more people strive to bring this to market and the more of us, they can find a path and succeed and execute the closer we truly get to the end of that war on drugs, on cannabis, which we get gotten to.

[00:06:28]Kellan Finney: Yeah. Um, well said I wanna stay on the hotel. I mean, was there prior to purchasing it? I mean, um, the location you described, uh, the Patterson Inn, correct? Was, yeah, its old name. Um, it was, it was been, uh, Regard as one of the most haunted hotels in, in Colorado. Correct. So was there hesitancy, like talk us through that whole, uh, thought process, like getting involved in that?

[00:06:51] What was, where was your, what was your head

[00:06:53]Chris Chiari: at? Um, just to let you know, Patterson in Patterson in.com is now a nine plus year operating boutique hotel. Uh, one of the [00:07:00] highest. Uh, rated boutique hotels in Denver since I took over. And I’m proud of that because I didn’t want someone to ever look at the addition of cannabis and say it was Shick or a gimmick smart and something that was, you know, could diminish the work that I’m executing and bringing to market a four star hospitality experience.

[00:07:16] Uh, the property does have a Tavern on site that is open to the public recently opened just a few months ago. And so I’m working to bundle and bring these nonconforming conflicting businesses and finding a path to execute them in this 12,000 square foot French Chateau at thankfully four 20 east 11th.

[00:07:36] Uh, so Patterson and will survive. The four 20 Denver is, uh, our hospitality lounge in Colorado entity. That’s operated and now suitable. And is moving into the build out for, um, opening and then 12 spirits Tavern named after. Yes. What is purported to be as many as 12 spirits that are, uh, storied to occupy the house?

[00:07:57] Um, when I looked at the property [00:08:00] originally, I did not know when I set off to Denver to look at the. But not two days later, a good friend of mine in the political research space in south Florida. By the time I got here, I had an email that had every link to every story. And I had the haunted narrative from the original owner to, um, you know, loss of family members and the story that he left after, you know, only a few months of living there.

[00:08:25] All the way through a story from the seventies where two guard dogs, two, uh, gray Dobermans were put in the house for a night and were not found alive. The next day. In fact were found dead on the front lawn. Uh, this makes it into the paper I saw the picture many years ago. Every ghost tour comes by. And I like to joke that in life, right?

[00:08:44] Everyone knows you get 15 minutes of fame while I squandered 12 of those 15 minutes on an episode of portals to hell with Jack Osborne, the house is known as the CRO Patterson, C R O K E hyphen P a T T E R S O N CRO Patterson. We’re still considered in [00:09:00] there. Now four seasons. One of the higher rated episodes is they came and spent a week in the house.

[00:09:05] Um, when I bought the hotel, the last owner said. We don’t talk about the haunting and they’d whisper it. They said that at every in, uh, group they went to in these conferences with other hotel owners, nobody talked about the haunting of the hotel. And then I have this episode air, uh, may of 2020. Four days before my two year anniversary and maybe a week after we were forced to close down in the very unexpected world that we all experienced in 2020.

[00:09:34] And I just remember thinking, okay, great. And then the, we opened back up and portals to hell has aired. And now forget about whispering about it. I’m a nine room hotel. We would be sold out in the middle of the peak of the pandemic. I was sold out every single weekend with ghost enthusiasts that were both believers and skeptics.

[00:09:53] And I like to say now, after almost two years of that, that I am enriched by their experiences and [00:10:00] stories of both the believers and the skeptics in many cases, armed with equipment and showing me, uh, pictures of the orbs they’ve seen in the rooms. And so I can’t, I can’t dismiss it. And now, in fact, March 7th, 2011, I stood in front of that house and I pointed up and I said, I wanna turn you into a marijuana bed and breakfast and a woman’s voice.

[00:10:21] And I now believe it to be the ghost of Katherine Patterson, the grand do of the house. Now the wife of former us Senator Thomas Patterson, and she said, get off the fucking grass. Literally right in my ear. I remember it like it was yesterday. So no, I came into it, charged, aware that the house was, uh, active or spirited or, or purportedly haunted.

[00:10:42] I had an experience on first encounter, but yet I still bought it and, uh, made it through code and made it through portals to hell enriched and can disprove many of the things by walking you through why the stairs squeak at the same note, the right time of night. [00:11:00] By yourself in a very quiet, beautiful, old, uh, house, uh, creeks, what are they?

[00:11:07] And are they the spirits that reside in the homes? Following me up the stairs, I could give you a hundred guests that would tell you very clearly that’s exactly what that was .

[00:11:16]Bryan Fields: So can we anticipate a cannabis induced ghost tour in the future? Is that something that we can look forward to when we visit

[00:11:24]Chris Chiari: the proper.

[00:11:25] I am grateful to the very restrictive rules around cannabis hospitality, where I have to segment it to this very isolated place on the property. Because one, my, one of my biggest fears is that maybe cannabis smoke might be a, a smudge and smudge all the coset of my hotel. So, no, I, I, I need to burn it safe Patterson in, in its history.

[00:11:46] And then, um, Yes, no, that’ll be ghost tours. I am starting that process. Uh, when I’m on site, certainly when guests have seen the episode of portals to hell, I know that there’s value, right. And the house, this property was [00:12:00] there in their living room, and now they’re getting to experience it. And so there’s that heightened value for them.

[00:12:05] And so I take that time to, to give that tour. The house. I am the caretaker of this physical structure. I’m the caretaker of the history of this 130 year old property, uh, house that has a storied history long before I showed up. And to that history I am working to add again, what is the most exciting to me?

[00:12:26] The most exciting and unique amenity and hospitality today is this now privileged license around cannabis hospitality. I use that term because alcohol gaming, uh, tobacco restaurant. These fall under these categories of privileged licenses, right? You fill out these applications, you go through both state and local, um, uh, scrutiny, and then you move to proceed to opening.

[00:12:50] That is where, uh, cannabis policy and regulation has matured to a point of, of good bureaucracy. I hate to use the word good, but [00:13:00] bureaucracy that you can understand if you’ve ever navigated liquor or these other privileged license. What are some

[00:13:05]Bryan Fields: of these rules you had to navigate you, you said that you couldn’t mix the two of them together.

[00:13:08] So tell us what was some of the rules when you got that license that, that restricted you from doing certain

[00:13:13]Chris Chiari: things or allowed you to do other certain. Well, anything that becomes a cannabis consumption area has to be locked down at 2:00 AM. So anyone who remembers the early day of going to events in the cannabis space, we’d have alcohol and music and vendors inside with their, with their displays.

[00:13:27] And then we’d go outside to a bus, a van and Airstream, or a couple of the companies that emerged that offered cannabis, tourism, and then we’d get high on the. Well under the rules around cannabis hospitality. If I designate the entire hotel as a cannabis consumption area, then I can welcome you into the hotel.

[00:13:43] But at 2:00 AM, I gotta kick you out to a bunk in an RV out front and make sure you come back in at 7:00 AM for breakfast and we’ll hold your luggage for you. Didn’t really fit with overnight hospitality. Uh, for me, that’s my core business. I’m a hotel. I see adding cannabis as a really fun and exciting [00:14:00] reason to reach out to my current guests.

[00:14:02] My previous guests. And to likely attract someone to this property that may have never heard about it. And as a nine room on our way to 11 room property might not have, because we’re still independent and. This becomes a great oversized reason to communicate. Um, and, uh, though other lounges are now starting to emerge here in the, in the greater Metro area, they are open to the public.

[00:14:25] They are meant to be a really fun place on a Saturday or Sunday or Saturday night or a Friday night. And my space is really being carved out as this more intimate, private space with an eye, more towards food and beverage and dining, as well as this, um, more restrictive access space for the kind of curious.

[00:14:43] Largest growth segment of cannabis. Consumers are 55 plus maybe even 60 plus also happens to be a peak core baseline of my larger demographic of the, of the customers that already come to my hotel.

[00:14:56]Kellan Finney: So, Chris, you said you dipped your toe in politics, [00:15:00] uh, a little while back in your life. Um, how much did you participate in, um, kind of some of the.

[00:15:08] Public commentary to draft these rules and regulations for consumption lounges. Was that something you were actively attending the meetings and the conversations, or did you just let it kind

[00:15:18]Chris Chiari: of roll out? I got here after amendment 64 mm-hmm bought the hotel so much of the final rule making, um, around Cam’s hospitality happened once I bought the.

[00:15:28] Okay. Yes. I’ve spoken to many elected officials. Yes. I was engaged in topics and conversations, especially with people in industry. Yes. You know, groups like normal engaged in those types of discussions, but at the other note, so much of it becomes outta your control. You know, I had the issue of how to get the badge and what the.

[00:15:48] Pathway to suitability would look like, would there be restrictions or not? What would that look like? Would the property be suitable? You know, the city had to still figure out there was one talk. It could be 500 feet from some things it could have been greater than a [00:16:00] thousand feet. I had heard from the city years ago that miraculously, this [email protected] a sea of red, but Denver no longer provides that suitability.

[00:16:10] Map, you have to get it yourself. And so at what point is it worth it to invest with is thousands of dollars for a detailed engineering survey of a lot and your distance restrictions from other properties. And that happened finally, um, after I was well down the path to a rezoning. So while the, all of these things were happening, I had a hotel to run.

[00:16:30] I had a pandemic to navigate through. I had a core group of employees that had been loyal to the business we were building and the culture we created, and I made sure that the business was loyal to them. Uh, and we got through that. I had a rezone. Uh, when I, uh, first reached out to the city to say, this is what I’m gonna do.

[00:16:46] They said, Chris green dot the sea of red, but you’re in a residential building with a use overlay to be a hotel. Meaning it’s a residential property that had this unique, special, right to run this one type of business, uh, commercial rezoning in the middle of a [00:17:00] residential portion of Capitol hill. Some people, if you want to say who would’ve told me, I was crazy that might have fallen in there as that category.

[00:17:08] But we started the process. And along that route, the community group Capitol hill United neighborhoods gave me a 29 to nothing vote in support of a rezoning commercial and opening the bar to the public for the first time. Which again, like I said, didn’t happen a couple months ago. Um, the next piece of that hurdle was Denver had to come up with rules.

[00:17:27] And Denver finally comes up with rules. I’m still in the middle of the rezoning. I enter into a refinance. So, you know, business in the world, we were in gave and shared its fair share of challenges that sometimes that ability to sit through multiple committee meetings to make in policy, what is known as a camel is not always the time you have available to.

[00:17:47] Uh, and it makes it unfortunate, cuz those of us that are executing these business models have not been invited into those committees even after achieving licensing. It’s the same industry players that come year [00:18:00] after year, uh, that get the same seat time after time and continue to make what they believe is good policy.

[00:18:07] But I would argue that I would say this the me D in Colorado right now is a Porsche box. It looks like this gorgeous national standard, but if you open the boot or the bonnet, you can’t find the. And so someday someone might come looking and if they don’t find the engine, will we really hold the gold standard?

[00:18:26] And so my approach isn’t okay. Let let’s, it’s all broken. It’s no, my approach is those of us in industry that recognize the urgency of good practices. We’ll establish those good practices through industry and will actually always be one step ahead of the state’s desire to further scrutinize or regulate because we are working diligently to execute a clear, transparent and successful market.

[00:18:54] And many, if not, most of the operators are there some kind of look at this [00:19:00] as their own personal fiefdom and will make policy or try to direct things that will benefit one, but not necessarily benefit the bigger thing we’re working towards. Done soapbox it’s it’s away. I

[00:19:12]Bryan Fields: read that your property has five licenses.

[00:19:14] I’m curious to know is the cannabis license harder to get than the others? And if not, when you were going through that process, was it one where they said, if you get this, you can’t do you can’t do alcohol.

[00:19:26]Chris Chiari: How did that work? Not five licenses, but five businesses to get to where I am right now. So the property does hold and was originally a hotel restaurant with a Tavern live entertainment license.

[00:19:38] And then I add cannabis hospitality, which by rule can be adjacent to each other on a commercial property, but not accessible. And so under the code, you have this with these two languages and someone said, call your business cannabis adjacent the other day on LinkedIn. But in fact, the reason I can’t use that term and wouldn’t is because that Jason is actually a zoning code term that anyone in that space would understand.[00:20:00]

[00:20:00] And so, in fact, I’m not adjacent, I’m accessible. Uh, and that means that that ability to move between the two, uh, right now the property is a Nevada C Corp. I am actively involved in raising funds on a crowdfund campaign for equity on republic.com. And so I’m selling equity, a stock future stock in a Nevada C Corp called the four 20 hotels.

[00:20:21] Not trying to ask people to invest in a one off. Actually buying into the entity that intends to manage and own multiple properties in multiple cities. Uh, right now that company does have three wholly owned subsidiaries. One is castle equality, which is the company that actually owns the physical property.

[00:20:39] It has three tenants. One of them is Patterson in which will stay on as the operator of this historic boutique hotel. After the namesake of us, Senator Thomas Patterson, who is no less significant to the property. After my addition of the lounge as he is today, um, 12 spirits Tavern is now a separate Tavern entity that exists in a separate [00:21:00] commercial tenant space in the basement.

[00:21:02] And then the four 20 Denver is the cannabis hospitality lounge. And if anyone were to go to Patterson in.com. The first picture you’d see, is this French Chateau about 12,000 square feet? Uh, the larger structure on the left is the nine room boutique hotel with the open operating Tavern in the basement.

[00:21:21] And then the cannabis lounge will be about a thousand square feet of the first floor of the carriage house. And then the way the two properties are offset by half a floor, we have easy access to add more guest rooms above the carriage house. I always joke with guests, if they know the difference between a bed and breakfast and a boutique hotel.

[00:21:38] And I say it’s actually the number of doilies on the property. So we’re a Dolly free property that makes us a boutique hotel. Uh, technically it’s 10 or less as bed and breakfast, 11 and up is boutique hotel. So adding two more rooms to my nine room property takes us from bed and B. Two boutique hotel.

[00:21:55] And that was my goal to take this three star bed and breakfast, [00:22:00] add that Tavern to add the higher scrutiny and level of more amenity, which we have add more guest rooms to make us a boutique hotel and then add. And I’m gonna just keep beating this phrase the most exciting and unique amenity and hospitality today.

[00:22:13] It. I

[00:22:14]Bryan Fields: mean, it’s challenging to set up your business in that way, but it’s probably necessary given all the rules and challenges in cannabis. Right? I I’d imagine that wasn’t an intention. You were like, let’s have all these different

[00:22:23]Chris Chiari: core you had. No, I would say this now you asked this question. This is where, and a lot of people say, oh my God, cannabis say, I wish they would regulate it like alcohol.

[00:22:32] Um, I have a liquor license in the state of Colorado. I know what it means to navigate a change of ownership, a renewal, and a transfer of ownership of a liquor license in the state of Colorado. I’ve been badged in the cannabis industry, both through a dispensary, and now through cannabis hospitality for six years.

[00:22:52] Also many years back when I went, went for minimum wage jobs, to getting lucky in that irrational exuberance and had a horse once, uh, that horse exposed me to being [00:23:00] licensed in five states for para. Which is gaming. And so I’ve held privileged licenses in gaming in five states and now alcohol and cannabis in the state of Colorado.

[00:23:10] And I was laughing with one of the originators of 64. We were at a fundraiser for a political candidate, maybe two weeks ago. And I said, you might not know this, but if you own a horse and your horse is racing at the track and you are behind the scenes at that track, you are required to wear your state issued ID around your, a lanyard on your.

[00:23:30] Just like we do here in the cannabis industry. And he laughed. He said, I don’t know if you know this, but the very first director of the E D that then governor Hickenlooper had appointed, came from gaming. And so the bureaucracy that does regulate the marijuana enforcement division is a pretty sophisticated combination of para mutual and alcohol.

[00:23:51] Both regulated by the same division, the, the department of revenue. And that is true in all states that cover those types of licensing as well as, as cannabis. [00:24:00] And so we actually do. Regulate now, do we tax it the same when you really get down to the fact that corn taxed for grain is one tax rate, corn moving into production for alcohol is taxed at another tax rate.

[00:24:13] A lot of people don’t realize that, that the multiple layers of taxation as you go through processing and alcohol, cuz once the grain is fermented and then transferred and, and brewed. And then each of these stages creates different layers of taxation, which compound. So in some ways the Tax structure in cannabis though, onerous and high.

[00:24:31] Is less complex or layered as alcohol can get. Uh, but that’s also, we haven’t gotten to federal yet. So once we do, we’ll be just like alcohol. So everyone gonna keep asking. I hope they regulate like alcohol one day and I can promise you they’re on their way to doing that, but it’s not that far off today and holding all these privilege license, I can tell you that.

[00:24:52] Do you think

[00:24:52]Bryan Fields: that’s good or bad?

[00:24:55]Chris Chiari: It’s good from the sense that there is a [00:25:00] pathway, right in economics in business, there is that element called widget. What that means is in every deal, in anything you can do to build a business, there are very key, core foundational elements that are the same. The better you get at recognizing the similarities and getting through that work with efficiency.

[00:25:18] The more time you can spend on the things that are unique or nuanced. In my case, I had no hospitality experience. When I started surrounded by hospitality professionals have learned and been cross trained and now hold surf safe, uh, manager, safe food safety certifications of now being cross trained to be one of the bartenders.

[00:25:35] The bar is opening. One, you shouldn’t conduct an orchestra where you can’t play the instruments. But also I said before, I’m trying to create a culture with the team and that culture means respecting everyone. And the fact that life sometimes happens and I still have to execute my business. So I can’t get mad at an employee cuz life happens.

[00:25:53] I have to support a team member who’s going through crisis. And then we play the old triangle, uh, layers, uh, Lakers defense, and [00:26:00] we shift positions and move in and fill in the gaps to keep executing and be supportive to the business, to execute, which we have to do. Cuz we’re a hotel we’re open 365 days a year and on a small team of only seven core employees.

[00:26:13] Um, and so you step in and, and do that work. So cross train and everything, including making B. So with cross

[00:26:20]Kellan Finney: training and having employees step in, how does it work from do all your employees have to go through the M E D badge process and then do also have to go through kind of like standard liquor training and they can kind of be like one side fit,

[00:26:35]Chris Chiari: toll, right?

[00:26:35] I’m crosstrained so I can be fluid. My GM can certainly handle all of those capacities. I already hold my badge and he will be badged as well. Once we. Uh, have the lounge open staff, as far as the bartenders, step up into an in keeping position when needed, right. Housekeeping and, and innkeepers support each other.

[00:26:52] As we move through busier days, as we need to get work done inside the house and then through the rooms, and then what’ll happen is the cannabis lounge isn’t open [00:27:00] yet, but we will be open for 16 hours. A day will be 8:00 AM to midnight and plan is that it’s gonna be open every single day and under the rules, it has to be staffed.

[00:27:09] That entire time. So the intention is that the staff are in that space will be in a sense on call or in the space when a guest is there and when not would then slide back into the house. So they’ll be in a position to support the house, but the house will not always be in a position to support the lounge.

[00:27:27] And that’ll just become one of those places. You can go in one direction on some things, but you can’t flow backwards. Uh, and so we’ll have that because I have alcohol in cannabis. Now on the same property, guests can go into the bar, purchase alcohol, bring it back into the room or into any other common area of the property to consume.

[00:27:46] There’s a big difference between alcohol and cannabis point of sale and purchase has to be the bar, but once the sale and the transfers occurred, its consumption can be in the common. Cannabis though is [00:28:00] isolated to the lounge one because you have to lock it down at a particular hour. But the last piece of that hurdle is the requirement from an air handling perspective.

[00:28:08] So I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a cigar lounge, but if you’ve been in one, it likely is older than 12 years. The reason it’s older than 12 years is it’s grandfathered in, in the air quality standards because 11 or 12 years ago, international standards around clean air in a smoke filled environment were defined as 60 cubic feet per minute, per person.

[00:28:30] That’s a lot of air and it’s actually 100 times the normal standard for a commercial space. And so very few hookah lounge or cigar lounges have emerged in America since then, unless they have built these very expensive and sophisticated. Ventilation systems lucky for me, I’m only a thousand square feet.

[00:28:47] I need to negatively charge the room by design of this code, which means air sucking in through any gap under a door or in a window as opposed to smoke or any odor being able to get out. And that’s the biggest hurdle so far has been [00:29:00] getting this lockdown final design for an HVAC system, taking in all these considerations and dealing with it and trying to put it into this old historic property.

[00:29:08] Um, but that’s this that’s this last great. Uh, and some of the lounges that are opening that are in unincorporated counties, air handling and air quality is usually administered not by the state, but by a local county or a city. And so you’ll often find, uh, parts of America where you have what are known as unincorporated areas.

[00:29:29] Where they don’t officially fall into a city and if their counties don’t regulate or, uh, or, uh, justify or, or oversight over air handling, these operations have found ways to open without needing to do these types of retrofits. I’m looking to open in New York, Boston, Chicago, Miami, and Denver, every one of these, which was, is what you’d be able to call a mature bureaucracy.

[00:29:53] And so we’re building a system that we intend to be able to scale to these other locations. [00:30:00] I can only

[00:30:00]Bryan Fields: imagine the levels of training that have to go on for your staff. We talked about the alcohol challenges, then the cannabis challenges, and then even to communicate that information to probably poor patrons, right.

[00:30:09] Who are a couple drinks in interested in this kind of wandering what up that has to be so challenging for your staff. So how do you do the education and how do you communicate that to

[00:30:17]Chris Chiari: consumers? You know, bars four to nine were happy hour only, but that’s going from an amenity that was O open just against the hotel for one hour, a night for a free glass of wine.

[00:30:27] Now it’s, uh, signature crafted cocktails and bourbon drinks, a small light Tavern food menu, and a pretty extensive, uh, premium and select no well alcohol list for anything else you might want on top of that. Um, so four to nine kind of keeps us out of those switching hours of causing too much trouble or getting in too much trouble, but bartend.

[00:30:47] You don’t bring a bartender on that doesn’t know, right. That check ID recognize signs of over intoxication and then engage appropriately to mitigate, um, someone being in a position of crisis or over [00:31:00] consumption cannabis is a little, little bit more unique. Um, but just like food safety and alcohol safety courses have emerged.

[00:31:07] So we do intend that all of our, our, our staff, I don’t wanna use the term bud tenders, cuz we’re only gonna be a, bring your own as opposed to a, a point of sale destination. Um, but our can. Servers or can Somas already because of my address because of the news we’ve been getting around the work guests come in and are a little bit more open about, where’s a good place to go.

[00:31:28] Where can I consume this? We can’t give implied or expressed answers right now that work and that frustrates me, but I know we’re getting close to offering that solution where I can literally not point to a space and say welcome. And you can do that here. Whole goal of what I’m trying to.

[00:31:46]Bryan Fields: You can’t make your recommendation, but you can kind of like nod your head in the direction and be like, there’s an arrow on the wall.

[00:31:50] If you just check the arrow on the wall, you’d probably figure

[00:31:52]Chris Chiari: out a solution. Now I’ve recently finished my online course. Still need to go for my in-person practical, but I’ve been studying the coursework for [00:32:00] Ji. I intend to, uh, do go through those same certifications for other groups that do emerge with the same level of credibility.

[00:32:09] Uh, because I want to know the knowledge base for me. I’ve been in this, like I said, for this decade that 115,000 mile road trip proved. Very enriching from my exposure to cannabis. I laugh. I, I learned about TURPs and, and strains, you know, a decade ago before we had markets still coming outta the legacy and made bubble hash in a forest one time.

[00:32:31] Right. So, you know, I have been an, uh, remember when open blasting was still a thing outside, even in a regulated, emerging, early growth cannabis industry, people were still open blasting hash in glass tubes. Outside. I remember that we’ve come a long way. You know, if only rosin had been discovered first.

[00:32:56]Bryan Fields: I know you had ambitious aspirations.

[00:32:58] When you looked up that hotel and said you were gonna [00:33:00] buy an turn into a cannabis consumption lounge. What is one concept along the road that has surprised you, that you thought one thing and now where we sit today has completely shocked you?

[00:33:11]Chris Chiari: Well, I’m surprised that we still haven’t gotten to this path at consumption, not just here in Denver.

[00:33:16] I knew the reservations and frustrations elected officials in Denver very early on, started expressing that we’re tired of being. They didn’t wanna be first. And, and that’s not true with the group we have today, but that was true with the group that brought amendment 64 to, uh, to market and, and, and implemented it.

[00:33:32] That, that there was this, we don’t wanna, we don’t want that perception too fast from too far. Right. Um, one of the things that surprises me is I always knew the curiosity from older consumers, but it’s, and they wanted to know if it made the pain go away in their hands if they used the lotions, but it’s striking the comfort and curiosity of people that are coming back in, like I said, 55 plus with this desire [00:34:00] to, um, try it.

[00:34:03] And then walking away impressed with that was not the weed I last interacted with. Right. They’re coming into a store. I always tell ’em if you go in and the bud tender is not willing to give you time, walk out, just walk out. And this is cautionary to anyone running a dispensary. Yet people come in and ask you questions and your culture and your intention and your desires just grind them through and get them.

[00:34:29] Go open a supermarket, go open a convenience store because that’s your mentality. And you’re not wired for this because we have an obligation. To make sure that consumers walk away with their questions answered. We offer now strains that can purportedly lead to unique experiences that are different from each other and discernible.

[00:34:51] And it’s important that a guest walk away with an experience, they find more appealing edibles and making sure that start low goes slow. [00:35:00] Making sure that a flavor or the, uh, maybe it tastes a little bit like cannabis might not be the product for a Novi. And letting them ask those questions and then make ultimately making their own decision.

[00:35:10] Um, but I say this because I was in one of the bigger named, um, MSO operations here, not too long ago in my neighborhood. And I was willing to go and bring guests when they come to town there, especially for the edible selection, but the bud tenderer just wanted to rush me through the door. And I said, well, I have a question.

[00:35:27] He goes, well, I need you to make a selection. And I said, that’s not how this works. And he goes, well, are you gonna buy something? And I said, no, not from you and not. Wow. So the can, that

[00:35:39]Kellan Finney: can be a challenge in, go ahead, Brian, you can go for it. I mean, I was just gonna say it can be a challenge when you see a lot of these MSOs come in and try to, uh, create culture by hitting certain metrics.

[00:35:52] And I think that can, you’re seeing that, that corporate aspect of corporate America now trickle into, [00:36:00] um, these more established cannabis. Dispensaries that were around. And then they kind of had some exits mm-hmm and turnover, and now more corporate entities are coming in that are like, Hey, you see this one cell on this spreadsheet?

[00:36:13] Like, if we get 10 more people in an hour in our dispensary, we’re gonna increase our revenue.

[00:36:20]Chris Chiari: Yeah. But I’m the person who I agree. I know what you mean. Usually a person who buys four or five, I buy an ounce at a time. Every time I walk in the dispense. I, uh, host a lot of, of, of musical friends here through my house.

[00:36:33] Um, and I bring them, so I had a, a, I had five people with me when he did that. Now they all made a purchase. I didn’t, um, because I wasn’t willing to spend my dollar there that night. No, I know. You know, so, and that’s unfortunate. And since then I have not brought any of my house guests. They have a wonderful competitor, an extra block away.

[00:36:57] And we now make the extra effort to go that extra block. [00:37:00] Good worth it.

[00:37:00]Bryan Fields: Worth it. Chris. So cannabis tourism has been held back by lack of state and local regulations. What state is next for

[00:37:09]Chris Chiari: you? Can you tell me state and local regulations, you know, Nevada’s a little big, but I am looking at the possibility of throwing my hat into their lottery and the hopes of, of, of striking gold or hitting a jackpot.

[00:37:23] I do think one of my next best places to go and I have to be te to what I talk about because I have this form C filed with the S sec and where I go next. You know, I have suitability for myself and the company here in Colorado. So. Maybe a Colorado ski destination would be a nice lateral move in the short term.

[00:37:39] That’s my vision is four star hospitality. You know, this is overnight hospitality, but then it’s membership and food and beverage, private membership clubs, peak, and Wayne and popularity over time and was reinvigorated by a company called Soho house. Uh, a little over 15 years ago. So house now has these very exclusive five star type [00:38:00] accommodations and clubs around the country, and they’re finding or trying to find new ways to ex keep, keep bringing in an audience to keep the cash flow going, uh, because private clubs can get stale.

[00:38:11] In my case, like I said, first and foremost, we’re a hotel at nine to 11 rooms. We’re undersized to the market, which means we should be able to grab a market, capture it and fill our hotel with, uh, these guests. If we do we’ll have a fun invigorating lounge, that’ll have a cross section. Of of America and its culture and its economics in that room consuming cannabis together, which is a great space to build.

[00:38:34] Um, but where next I know where I want to go. If you were to go to the republic.com website, you’ll see that I own the four 20 hotels.com. I own the four 20 denver.com. I own the four 20 chicago.com. I own the four 20 Boston dot. The four 20 nyc.com. The list goes on and a total of 55 cities in America around the world.

[00:38:55] And I do envision a dozen or more locations. Someone told me I had five to eight [00:39:00] years to live one time. And I’ve now launched this crowdfund campaign taking experience I did for other people’s visions 20 years ago and putting it to my own. I’ve got a five year to eight year plan now to execute. Four star accommodations in gateway cities with legally licensed onsite cannabis consumption lounges under, um, our first signature Keystone locations name and using its brass relief to tell our story.

[00:39:27] Um, this is the four 20 hotels. I love it. And, uh, the brand that I do hope and intend to, um, carry as the moniker to dozens of locations around the country and around. How was,

[00:39:41]Kellan Finney: uh, the process choosing Republic to kind of go out and help raise those funds for.

[00:39:46]Chris Chiari: I really love the democratization of equity crowdfund.

[00:39:50] A lot of people get confused cuz they think of crowdfunding around Kickstarter or that you’re just donating or giving. And so the translation to recognizing this is equity has been one of the [00:40:00] harder, um, conversations. Right to just educate, especially a cannabis population that what I’m doing with stock certificate is identical to NFT or coin that we know today.

[00:40:13] But using that regulated market of the securities exchanges, that’s been around and regulated since 1933 and 34. So that’s, that’s kind of, you know, been, been a hurdle, but Republic. Was one of the rare, larger national crowdfunding groups that would even consider a cannabis conversation. You know, at the end of the day, I’m a hotel, but even though I’m not selling it and I will just be a point of consumption under the definitions of cannabis as a controlled substance, a creation of a space to host its consumption is as onerous as the production or distribution.

[00:40:52] And so that means that I have the same concerns around two 80 E the section of the us tax code that affected Al Capone that, [00:41:00] uh, denies to cannabis operators, uh, normal operating cogs against revenue, which creates, um, exorbitant, taxable impact, uh, and is still that last real thing that’s been unresolved that maybe Congress surprises us and does it before November.

[00:41:18]Bryan Fields: Uh, I like the optimist of surprise, but I, I tend to be pretty disappointed when I’m hoping that Congress will surprise us so slightly switching gears, public enemy, number one, I’d love to know about the idea of it and you know, the, the big star

[00:41:31]Chris Chiari: in it. So take us through that concept. So I was, uh, already kind of involved in the normal universe had, uh, Keith Stroop had become a friend and has been so instrumental to this narrative around drug policy since 19.

[00:41:45] I was sitting in, uh, my backyard here in Denver. I was crab apple tree and I was sitting under the tree smoking some super lemon haze, very creative strain for me. And I had tried to make film before the melanoma diagnosis I had done well, and it’s what I wanted to, to. [00:42:00] Pivot my life into storytelling. And when you get a short leash on life, you know, Stan Slosky says it takes 30 years to master anything.

[00:42:08] And I didn’t have 20 years, 30 years, I had five to eight. So I walked away from that, ran for office unsuccessfully. Um, did a corporate reorganization, did other things travel that were, uh, not. Dedicating a life to a 20 year plan to make film. Uh, but I never got out of my system. So I was sitting in the backyard and, and I realized that though, there had been a lot of documentaries on the war, on drugs.

[00:42:31] And a lot of people had told the story that, that, and I was very affected by a documentary called 13th that was specific to the 13th amendment. And in it, it talked about specifically Georgia and how felony convictions have been used as a tool of racial and economic. Repression in that state in ways that maybe we haven’t seen as egregiously in others.

[00:42:53] And yet they didn’t talk about the tool that was used to create this criminal state and deny these individuals and, [00:43:00] and, and community members a right to participate in elections. It was cannabis. And so, uh, my goal was to not go back to the roots of cannabis with ans Slinger and the transition from alcohol to, uh, to, to cannabis in the 1920s and thirties, I wanted to start in this modern era of federal drug policy and when the funding and when the war.

[00:43:23] Was formalized and declared. And that declaration of war against cannabis is Richard Nixon. I had the privilege of interviewing a man named Dan Balum, who, uh, got Richard Nixon staffer, uh, John Eckman to sit down and, and he said to him, what was it with cannabis? And he made it very clear that to the Nixon white house, this was their public enemy number one.

[00:43:43] And since they couldn’t criminalize your right to breathe and speak and voice an opinion, But they could criminalize, they could criminalize this. They could criminalize

[00:43:59] the [00:44:00] inhaling of cannabis smoke and on the exhale of that smoke, they could restrict your speech. That’s what they did and that’s why it was such a tool. And then a question for me was knowing the movement of public opinion, polls from 12% to the now almost 70% we’re at today. We were at 52 when I started this film.

[00:44:21] Just broke the majority. And so I was curious to see if it correlated federal drug policy. Did it move with this movement in public opinion and did public opinion gyrate as it got to 52 now, 70%. And where did they interact and where did they overlap and was one, a driver of the other. And in fact, they were very unrelated.

[00:44:44] They did not correlate that. In fact, sometimes public policy has little to do with public opinion. It has to do with reactions to unexpected things that happen in the world. Uh, I don’t wanna give it away, but watch the movie. It’s 71 minutes long about [00:45:00] halfway in. You’ll hear about the summer of 1986 and how one moment and one day.

[00:45:06] Sets in motion ideologies that are still now prevalent to today in the opinions of now president Joe Biden, who comes as a Democrat and a drug warrior as a result of federal drug policy that is enacted in the summer of 1986, where can we find it? Public enemy number one, it’s on Amazon prime. You can rent it on Amazon prime or you can watch it on tuby or Pluto TV.

[00:45:32] Think I just saw on the, on a, on the waterfall that discovery may have picked it up. So it may be on discovery plus, uh, film one Seattle film festival in 2020. I’m proud to say I won a best producer award at doc LA, which was our premier in 2019. And our executive producer, uh, was ice tea came on the film near the end, but added just, um, Heavyweight presence, of course, but from a cultural perspective, his [00:46:00] relationship and where cannabis, music, and culture have all intersected, uh, he was just a potent voice on that topic.

[00:46:08] Yeah. Pretty

[00:46:08]Bryan Fields: powerful ad. So Chris, 20 years from now, we will look back and say that was Barb Barrack. I can’t believe we did that or experienced that in the cannabis industry.

[00:46:18]Chris Chiari: What is that? Barrack 20 years. How about this? That we’re 20 years into some significant reforms and policy in this country, but yet cannabis, incarcerations and cannabis prisoners are still numbered in the hundreds of thousands.

[00:46:34] There were arrests that still occur in a year, still in the hundreds of thousands. Um, I think it’s an abomination on the other side. I am going to make a statement. People are gonna hate me, but what normal may have gotten wrong in 1977 was they thought that they could just dismiss the concerns of parents, even if they were wrong.[00:47:00]

[00:47:00] And I recognize that for a child or anyone under the age of 21, anyone under the age of 21, their mother. Is gonna get way more credibility and standing telling their story than they will. And as advocates for legal adult access and to protect these now consumer markets, whether they still be legacy or legal legacy being, you know, home cultivation and, and, and caregivers and other access that are not the very public and big store front regulated market, um, that we need to not go to war with mother.

[00:47:37] Stay in our lane of developing with integrity, these industries, and if necessary, rising up, if by God forbid, we find out that kids should not be getting it in some of the forms that we now produce it. Um, I don’t wanna say there’s anything there. I can just say that the mothers that are showing up now in larger and larger [00:48:00] volumes are getting, are making progress with their message.

[00:48:04] and, uh, if we try to fight them again, we’re going up against mothers that are credible. And when it comes to the protection of a child, there is no more credible individual than their parent, certainly their mother, uh, and they can, we cannot be at war with mothers, but at the same note, mothers that are concerned that might even be spewing, false information need to be engaged so that when it comes to the space of 21, That we don’t roll back.

[00:48:34] And that we don’t allow bad policies like radioactive isotopes to be used in the flushing fluids of cannabis, which was literally proposed where potency, which is the biggest topic of conversation in Colorado and will be nationalized soon enough as we get further down the road. I always say that when you say potency 99% purity in the cannabis product with this potency, you’re talking about purity.

[00:48:58] So if regulators wanna [00:49:00] now say that we have to lower the potency. Or lower the purity of these products, what type of adult do they propose that we use? Because everyone thought it was a brilliant idea to thin out THC oil with vitamin E and vape pens. And this became a national health crisis. What happens if a one-off state like Colorado creates policy to create some new form to track these product?

[00:49:25] Proves to be a health concern, will the reaction be as swift and fast as that national reaction was to vitamin E? My concern is don’t make a skinny pigs like that. And so that’s, don’t put us in a

[00:49:36]Kellan Finney: position to make the same mistakes, big tobacco made with their cigarettes in terms of adulting, the. Yeah, contents inside

[00:49:44]Chris Chiari: of a cigarette, but that means the industry has to be in ways that tobacco never was transparent about its goods and bads that all industries too many Oreos will kill you.

[00:49:56] You don’t have to lie about it. Exactly. So [00:50:00] nobody is dying of cannabis consumption, and I still feel very confident in that statement, but it does not mean that all cannabis exposure is good for all cannabis.

[00:50:11]Bryan Fields: Before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson, learn to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?

[00:50:22]Chris Chiari: I was told at a young age, don’t think the world hasn’t already thought of that. Be creative and go out there and do it regardless of what the world tells. Amen. Oh, I, it

[00:50:39]Bryan Fields: all right. Prediction time, Chris, how do we get cannabis consumption, lounges to be as commonly accepted as bars in hotels in the future.

[00:50:52]Chris Chiari: By executing and bringing to market, not something in an entry level product or a roadside motel, [00:51:00] but bringing to market three, four, and five star opportunities. And so a larger segment of the new still kind of curious can experience cannabis in a way that is not back alley. Or that bag of S smushed up bud.

[00:51:15] We used to know, and that it’s emergence and normalization happens in spaces that are very familiar.

[00:51:25]Kellan Finney: I think it’s a flywheel, right? I don’t think that you take a handful of spaghetti and throw it at the wall, like open, give out a bunch of licenses and see which one kind of is standing in 10 years. I think it needs to be kind of taken very cautiously, especially with, um, so much psychological.

[00:51:47] Kind of stigma at, at, at, uh, stake, if you will. And so I think it’s a slow flywheel right? Over the next five years, like Chris was saying maybe a dozen open that are [00:52:00] very, very high end boutique and they create this persona and create this kind of expectation within consumers of this certain experience when they go to ’em and then after five, 10 years, that’s kind of now the flywheel’s moving.

[00:52:13] Now we know that like, This is the successful business model to implement this kind of, uh, business. And then everyone’s just gonna kind of follow that. But

[00:52:23]Chris Chiari: I. That’s not capitalism and that is not what’s occurring already. There have already been 12 that have opened and gone out of business. And the carcasses of failed business models will pile up in this space because will it work like a bar?

[00:52:38] There is a, a business here in Colorado that’s really has now opened and is doing the half gram, uh, gram pre-roll joints. You could

[00:52:46]Kellan Finney: argue though, Chris, that most bars, 90% of bars fail too. Correct?

[00:52:50]Chris Chiari: It that’s that’s B. That’s right. That’s a brilliant statement, right? Location, what you have there, all those other things become as important to just [00:53:00] the fact that you exist.

[00:53:01] Right. Brian, what do you think?

[00:53:04]Bryan Fields: I, I don’t know. I was like listening to both of your answers and it’s one of those where, when I write the question, I don’t really think about an answer. And then hearing Chris talk and you Kelly, I, I kind of am like a little more puzzled. I don’t know how we get there. I guess for me, I wonder if it takes people like Chris to kind of kick the door down and to demonstrate the value and the high end experience to set the example for the others.

[00:53:25] And then I wonder if there’s value and maybe this is just my opinion. In the Marriott and the Hyatts being interested in playing the games because with their type of money and their type of reach, they can help normalize it because I think the biggest thing to change consumer’s expectation and make it widely accepted in society is just widely seen.

[00:53:42] Right? The more people see it, the more they must accept these opportunities as

[00:53:46]Chris Chiari: normal. Most cannabis consumers even today, right? If you live here in Colorado, right? We don’t have commercial places to go smoke. So you go home or you go to your friend’s yard for the barbecue and you have a good time. And that is probably still [00:54:00] gonna be true.

[00:54:00] Cuz most people, especially the Urus, the new consumer, they don’t wanna smoke out in public. They don’t wanna smoke at the show or take that hit. If something they’ve never tried at the concert, because they’re afraid of passing out or how much hard it’s gonna be to get down these steps back to the car and back to the hotel.

[00:54:17] It’s one of the reasons I like doing it in a hotel because that kind of closes the distance between your having a greater experience than you expected and, and looking for a place to just crash. Right. And so, um, I’m as curious to see, and I don’t know if Hyatt touches it because most cannabis consumers are doing this as a form of relaxation, not as a form of socialization.

[00:54:40] And then they say 8% of us that smoke become frequent consumers and all of us that are free consumers find each other in community very quickly, uh, because we’re friendly and generous. Um, so maybe we just overrepresent in that sense. Uh, I feel that I have a little of a window into this, because again, with the address of four 20 and the earned media around the effort, guests [00:55:00] are already engaging us that 50 plus 55 plus guest is already engaging us with their curiosity and with questions.

[00:55:06] Uh, so I do know that there’s demand that there is necessity at that level. Uh, but will we need cannabis lounges everywhere? I don’t know. And will they be able to survive if they can’t, you know, make the markup like you do in alcohol 400% and someone might come in and have 5, 6, 7 drinks where if you’re going to, uh, buy the gram or buy the joint, uh, cannabis establishment, I bought a half gram.

[00:55:36] I had two friends with me. I brought some half Graham. So will we consume it and move it in volume? The same way for me, I make my money on the beds for me. I make my money on food and beverage. I think my inspiration is more Barney’s cafe, as opposed to Barney’s coffee shop and Amsterdam. I won’t have alcohol in that space, but a fun food [00:56:00] menu where you can smoke cannabis and eat.

[00:56:02] You smoke cannabis in a lounge environment, we’ll have a room that will have fusion. Uh, design of the room is gonna be banquettes and build ins. Uh, they’ll have high, low tables so that we can set the room up either as a relaxed living room space for 42 people or pop those tables, throw dining costs down and do blaze and brunch.

[00:56:20] Uh, we already serve an amazing breakfast to our hotel guests. It’s something we already do and are well regarded for. I can’t wait. To add that then as another add on experience, and it will be one of the few days that we’ll sell a pre priced price, fixed ticket, uh, to gain access to the lounge outside of our normal use and membership.

[00:56:40] Well, ke

[00:56:40]Bryan Fields: and I will absolutely be at that date cuz we are celebrating goodness, you guys. So Chris, for our listeners, they want to get in touch. They want to visit, they wanna watch the film and they wanna invest on Republic.

[00:56:49]Chris Chiari: Where can they find. Patterson in.com is the hotel where you can book a room today, open over, uh, nine plus years.

[00:56:58] Pino film P [00:57:00] E N O. film.com is where you can learn more information. See our movie posters, see the press we got in the Denver post, where they called me, quote, a character, uh, and pictures with iced tea. And then of course, uh, Amazon prime, if you would like to watch it and rent. Or tuby or Pluto where you can stream it with commercials.

[00:57:18] I still get paid, but you get to watch it with commercials. Um, the four 20 hotels.com is about to do a, a new relaunch of our website within a week. Uh, but please go to republic.com. Uh, it’s HTTPS colon slash slash republic.com/four 20. Hyphen hotels. Uh, and if you were to search Republic four 20 hotels on the internet, you would likely find our page very quickly.

[00:57:47] Uh, Benga recently gave us some great press where they told us that we are the, that Patterson in that my business, my product is the first hotel in America to secure vision licensed as cannabis as a [00:58:00] hospitality, as, as an amenity. I’m proud of that. And if you were to see our review in 3 0 3 magazine, they said, and I quote Patterson, Offered the warmth for the world’s best boutique hotels in bed and breakfast, it was important and foundational that we execute a high quality hotel experience for me doing an historically significant building with the address.

[00:58:21] Four 20 becomes part of our long term story, and now adding the most exciting and unique amenity in America is just that next chapter. Uh, and I welcome anyone else. Come on, get into this, but right now, Getting suitability, structuring your entity, finding a suitable property, moving through a licensing process, whether it’s rezoning or related to cannabis, getting operations that give you cash flow revenue and profitability.

[00:58:45] Before you add a unique amenity. This is where I believe there are some ingredients here that are positioning us, um, for success here in cannabis hospitality, this unknown new frontier. Already littered with carcasses of great ideas. [00:59:00] Uh, we intend to not be one of those carcasses. We intend to be one of those success stories.

[00:59:04]Bryan Fields: Love it. We’ll only it all up in the show notes. Thanks so much for taking the time. This was fun.

[00:59:08]Chris Chiari: Thank you.

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

This week we are joined by Chris Becker, Co-Founder of Honey Bee Collective  to discuss:

• Employee-owned Company
• Compostable Packaging
• Indoor vs Outdoor Cannabis Flower

Honey Bee Collective: The Honeybee Collective was built by the community. Feedback collected from over 1,200 cannabis consumers and enthusiasts has shaped our company and what we stand for. We’re employee-owned and always will be, we’ll look to our community to guide our business, and we’ll prioritize sustainable decisions as we grow.

#Cannabis #CannabisCommunity #EmployeeownedCompany

At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev) we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.

8th Revolution Cannabinoid Playbook is an Industry-leading report covering the entire cannabis supply chain 

The Dime is a top 50 Cannabis Podcast 

 Contact us directly at [email protected] Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24 Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney 

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[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys. Welcome back to that episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields. I’m with me as always as ke Finn this week. We’ve got a very special guest, Chris Becker co-founder of the honeybee collective Chris, thanks for taking the time. How you doing today?

[00:00:14]Chris Becker: I’m great, Brian, thank you so much for having me side dive in.

[00:00:17] Ke how are you doing?

[00:00:18]Kellan Finney: I’m doing really well excited to talk to, um, Another company operating out in Colorado on the west coast.

[00:00:24]Bryan Fields: How are you Brian? I’m doing well. I’m excited cuz Chris and I have Maryland roots as well. So there is some east coast ties there. So, so Chris, for our listeners that on friendly brought you, can you share a little background about

[00:00:34]Chris Becker: yourself?

[00:00:36] Sure thing. Uh, Chris Becker co-founder of the honeybee collective, we are a sustainable cannabis brand based outta Colorado. Um, our mission is to create community wealth and a sustainable future. We do that through employee ownership and sourcing the best environmentally, uh, friendly cannabis that we can find.

[00:00:53] Um, I, uh, have been in the cannabis industry about five years now. Uh, pretty much all [00:01:00] sales roles and a little bit of operational stuff. And, uh, wouldn’t wanna be in any other industry. Love it.

[00:01:07]Bryan Fields: So I, I wanna talk about like the origin of the honeybee collective. I know it’s employee own. Can you take us through like the early days?

[00:01:13] How, how did that conversation start? Where did the idea come and take us like kind of the origin concept

[00:01:18]Chris Becker: of it? Sure. So, uh, about two years ago now, I. We were, we removed the pandemic. Um, I wanted to start a company. I wanted to work with people that, um, I, I, I think are really impressive people and people that I enjoy being around.

[00:01:36] And I reached out to a group of about 15 people via email said, Hey, what would you think about starting a company? Um, I think it’s. Easy enough to start a private label cannabis company. And I think we have a real opportunity to reach consumers in a way that other brands currently don’t, um, meaningful messaging that resonates with them.

[00:01:56] And we could do some good in the world with the profits that we create. And that was the [00:02:00] premise that was, uh, enough to get a bunch of people on an interest all. Um, from there we deployed some surveys to see if this idea actually resonated with people who smoke weed. Uh, we. Several thousand people who identify as daily cannabis consumers respond to our survey and overwhelmingly supported it and said, yes, this is absolutely something that we are missing in the market.

[00:02:23] Um, and from there, we, we refined the idea, refined our positioning and did a lot of research to come up with this unique kind of employee owned structure.

[00:02:33]Bryan Fields: When getting started with it, were there hesitations like, Hey, this is gonna be harder, obviously, as you’ve seen everything in cannabis is a little challenging and then kind of taking a different path, right.

[00:02:42] With an employee owned or maybe from the onset and taking a, a path less traveled. Was there hesitations, were there initial challenges there that you can kind of expand upon?

[00:02:51]Chris Becker: Sure. Um, not a lot of hesitation. We had a lot of enthusiasm, but there certainly were a lot of initial challenges, um, from even the [00:03:00] kind of, uh, a non-revenue producing employee owned company is rather foreign.

[00:03:05] Most employee owned companies are a founder exit and they’re not like a startups. Um, so it was, it was kind of difficult to arrive at the corporate ownership structure. Um, we also had to go out and raise money and we had a lot of. I would say hesitant or lack of understanding, um, from, from investors. So, uh, we ended up crowdfunding and that was our solution to the, the money problem.

[00:03:35] What

[00:03:35]Kellan Finney: was it like launching a company in kind of like a saturated market, like Colorado? I

[00:03:39]Chris Becker: mean, right. The idea of a private label cannabis company actually works best in a saturated market. Um, a cannabis brands. Or what add value to a commodity product, right? Um, it’s either it’s form factor and it’s brand.

[00:03:57] Um, so we came up with some form [00:04:00] factors that, uh, daily cannabis consumers already are reaching for or, or want, um, more of, and we put our brand on it and we, uh, speak to consumers in a way that’s meaningful to them in terms of the, the values of the product and the values of the brand, which are the reasons that people support one company over.

[00:04:21] So when

[00:04:22]Bryan Fields: you’re sorry. Continue, go ahead. No, so, so when you’re forming the, the origin, right. And the investors have the questions to say, Hey, Chris, this sounds great, but like, how do I know that people are gonna be tied to this for the long term? Like, is this is more of like a concept that works better, like in theory versus actually on paper, are those, some of the questions you fielded than when you went through with the, the crowd.

[00:04:42] Did the investors also have similar questions? What did they get in exchange for equity? Was it access to information to the products? What, what was it exchange

[00:04:50]Chris Becker: in that moment? I think initial investors not being the daily cannabis consumer themselves were skeptical of the [00:05:00] consumer research that we had gathered that that said people would support our brand and.

[00:05:04] As an early stage brand, it’s reasonable to, with zero sales, it’s reasonable for an investor to go. I’m not sure that you’re gonna kill it in the market. Right. And, and despite founder enthusiasm, it’s okay for them to say, uh, I don’t know about this. Right. And they wanna see some sales and maybe they’ll invest next year.

[00:05:21] Um, when we went for the crowd funding, People asked very few questions because they very much related to what we stood for. Um, as an employee owned company that guarantees living wages and is trying to reduce waste and increase, uh, environmental friendly practices in the cannabis industry. All of those were things that people identified with and were willing to put their money towards the support.

[00:05:46] That’s awesome. Could you walk

[00:05:47]Kellan Finney: us through some of, uh, like the unique, sustainable, um, aspects of your guys’ company?

[00:05:54]Chris Becker: Absolutely. So number one is the employee ownership. We think that is, [00:06:00] um, The most sustainable corporate ownership structure in terms of fairness, equity for the people that are really creating value day to day in an organization.

[00:06:11] Um, I don’t think that excessive corporate pay is sustainable. Um, excessive. Pay disparities and wealth inequality on unsustainable trajectory that either requires, um, innovative solutions like employee ownership or complete systems change in revolution. And if the rich don’t wanna get eaten, I suggest that they sell some portions of their company to their employees.

[00:06:34] Um, So that’s number one in our sustainability efforts. Number two is we source cannabis. That’s grown using environmentally friendly practices. When I say that, I mean, greenhouse for outdoor grown flower, that’s not using a whole lot of high energy lights and, um, preferably little to know H V a C usage, um, and low inputs in as in, as [00:07:00] far as, uh, Fertilizers are concerned.

[00:07:04] So we prefer growers that use living soil, which is basically a natural ecosystem that feeds the plants rather than having to put commercial, agricultural inputs into the crop. Um, and then number three is our packaging. We, uh, we source all, uh, compostable or rec or recyclable packaging. So I wanna stay

[00:07:23]Bryan Fields: with the first topic and, and kind of the origination, the, of the team and how that works.

[00:07:28] So from a day to day standpoint, are the responsibilities split. And then how, how does the equity work? So people are making decisions. Is there someone in charge where it says, if there’s a disagreement amongst the members of the team, you know, we defer to this person, how, how did decisions be made? Cuz sometimes there has to be conflict among some of the team members in which direction to go.

[00:07:45] So how, how does that.

[00:07:47]Chris Becker: Sure. So our operating agreement, um, assigns day to day managers for routine tasks, and then, um, strategic decisions are made by. The founder team and our [00:08:00] employees. So our employees, we, we factor their input into, um, our strategic decision making processes, whether that comes to large purchases, deciding whether to, to retain profits or reinvest them, um, all those kind of decisions we, we make as a team and, and include employee input in that who

[00:08:21]Bryan Fields: else in the cannabis industry is doing.

[00:08:23]Chris Becker: Um, very few people that I’m aware of employee ownership is pretty new. There are a few groups that are ready to deploy a lot of ESOP financing to roll up dispensaries as employee owned operations. Um, the investors I’ve spoke to that are, that are doing that, uh, believe like I believe that it’s a more equitable way of ownership.

[00:08:45] And in particular in the cannabis industry is, uh, More motivating for, uh, employees to in the retail environment, upsell and, and, and have a reason to create a great customer experience.

[00:08:59]Bryan Fields: Is there a [00:09:00] period of time that they have to be on the team in order to have their equity invested. For example, we have people out on the east coast who are very excited to be in the cannabis industry, but maybe haven’t cut their teeth yet.

[00:09:09] So, you know, some people may be interested in joining, but once they get involved recognize, Hey, this industry isn’t for me, startup life isn’t for me. So is that a challenge that you face and, and have you had to overcome that previously?

[00:09:20]Chris Becker: We have a short vest period, uh, of. One year is the first vesting benchmark.

[00:09:26] And then you’re fully vested by three years. Um, I just, people don’t stick with companies for a very long time anymore. And, uh, we, we, when we, when we into the troubles of ESOPs and, and why they work and don’t work and why they motivate people in some companies and other people think that they. Not that worthwhile, uh, was because of things like vesting periods that favored long term employees over short term employees and that kind of thing.

[00:09:55] So we tried to make it a little bit more fair and equit. Awesome.

[00:09:58]Bryan Fields: Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. I’m [00:10:00] fascinated by the concept and delivery of that. So let’s kind of, you got hopping Kelly. I

[00:10:04]Kellan Finney: was just, I’m wondering, um, how does the decisions, you said you talked to every employee about decisions. Um, is it like a voting thing or is it like someone just walks around and gets opinions and like collects them and you guys go to the boardroom and like have a conversation.

[00:10:17] And you’re like, Joe said this and bill said that like, how was that

[00:10:21]Chris Becker: actually like executed, um, So currently we’re a small team of four founders and our, and one employee hire. So we execute those kind of decisions in a discussion format in a, in a team meeting typically. Totally. Okay. Perfect.

[00:10:39]Bryan Fields: Yeah. I can imagine a hundred people.

[00:10:40] Chris is coming back. I got 18 people over here. I got 19 over here. I got 10 that are undecided and seven that are still smoking will come back to me when they’re ready. That, I mean, listen, it it’s it’s, it’s a, it’s a really. Optimistic approach. And, and I tip my cap to you for, for kind of going through it and, and putting your, your, your values forward and saying like, Hey, like this is possible.

[00:10:59] I’m gonna [00:11:00] be a part of this and I’m gonna help lead the change because I recognize currently what’s happening in the cannabis industry is not what I think is best. And I wanna put, you know, my foot forward and demonstrate that. So moving on a little bit, some of the products, talk to us about the products that your team has, you know, how you source the products and what makes them different from the.

[00:11:17] Cool.

[00:11:18]Chris Becker: So all of our products come in recyclable or compostable packaging. Um, I just will broadly say that plastic recycling is a myth. It does. It, it is not a real thing. The majority of plastic that goes in recycling bins ends up in tr in landfills. So we use 10, or we use bioplastics that are home composed for our packaging.

[00:11:42] Um, Currently we have three SKUs. We have a 10 pack of pre-rolls that’s our most popular SKU. Um, people love to be able to reach for a joint and just have it conveniently rolled. Uh, it’s a half gram pre-roll so it’s satisfying, but it’s not too much. And, um, [00:12:00] Then we also have a two pack of pre-rolls that comes in a home compostable tube.

[00:12:05] Um, very convenient on the go. Um, and that’s very popular, especially at the consumption lounge in Denver that just opened up, um, And then we have a five gram flower tin. This is, uh, 40% more than your typical eighth, uh, 40% more product, 40% less waste. Uh, what I recognized is that when somebody buys an eighth and a dispensary and typical plastic jar, uh, you end up creating.

[00:12:34] Three and a half pounds of plastic waste for every pound of flour sold. And to me, that is just unconscionable. Uh, so we use tin for that five gram flower unit. Uh, it can go right in a recycling bin. Tin is infinite recyclable. Um, it doesn’t lose structural integrity. So it, it, it, um, ends up staying at a landfills for a lot.

[00:12:57] How did you guys settle

[00:12:58]Kellan Finney: on the [00:13:00] providers and all, uh, your vendors for all these packaging? Because this is very

[00:13:04]Chris Becker: unique in, in the industry. There’s a few emerging vendors that coordinate with overseas factories that have like created SKUs specifically to solve this problem. We ended up working with a company called Steven Gould packaging.

[00:13:18] Um, they, they work with a lot of cannabis companies and, uh, they have a whole sustainability line that they have, um, Come up with, and our compostable tubes come locally from Colorado. They’re from a company called do distributing, um, compostable tubes and compostable labels on the tubes. So you can put it right in your home compost bin and it’ll be gone in three months.

[00:13:40] what was that

[00:13:40]Kellan Finney: journey? Like finding those

[00:13:41]Chris Becker: vendors? Um, frustrating, because there are a lot of people that claim to offer sustainable packaging, and then when you receive it, there’s nothing sustainable about it. The, you know, there’s, um, a lot of people using plastics that they’re putting some kind of enzyme in that they claim makes it degrade faster, [00:14:00] but they won’t tell me if that’s like, A thousand years versus 10,000 years um, and, uh, you know, there there’s a lot of de deciduous stuff.

[00:14:11] Um, so it, it, it, it was frustrating. It’s a pretty niche, uh, item define, I mean, it it’s, it’s interesting when you buy packaging, it comes to you. It’s label as the product. So you, you, you are buying a product when you’re buying packaging and it’s, uh, yeah, the, the whole development process was very interesting.

[00:14:34] One of my partners works in consumer package goods. So she’s been through this process a million times with overseas factories, for various items, bags, baby clothes, all kinds of stuff. So having her was in.

[00:14:49]Bryan Fields: Yeah. I can imagine some brands are like, yeah, we take care of all these things. We check the box and then you ask them the questions and they’re like, no one’s ever asked us these questions.

[00:14:56] We just, it’s a marketing thing. We just kind of check the box and like, uh, you know [00:15:00] how that works. Like we’ll have to ask somebody and I’m sure once you start digging in, you recognize real quick. It’s like these people, they are not sure about we’re doing, I’m sure you guys got some pretty cool stories there or some pretty frustrating stories

[00:15:11]Chris Becker: there.

[00:15:12] Pretty frustrating. I, I, I’m just generally frustrated by. Half truths, especially when it comes to things that I care about. And greenwashing is one that I, I, I. I will be highly confrontational about because like the , the future is hanging on a thread and, uh, the world is burning up. I mean, even in Colorado, like where people built all these houses with no air conditioning, now you can’t live without air conditioning in Colorado.

[00:15:41] Like it’s crazy how fast the climate is changing. And so I feel passionately that like, if we’re going to sell stuff, we need to really reduce our impact on the environment.

[00:15:52]Bryan Fields: Does that add to the cost layer when you get the sustainable packaging as well? I, I know your team takes a lot of steps in order to make [00:16:00] sure this is thorough.

[00:16:00] Does that add into the layer or does it get cut out of the margin? How does that work?

[00:16:04]Chris Becker: Uh, right now we’re, we’re, we’re cutting it out of the margin and, and absorbing it. Um, we have found that people will pay, uh, a premium. It’s not, um, It’s not more than like 20% basically, uh, people will pay a premium for sustainable products.

[00:16:25] Uh, interestingly though, um, when we did surveys about what do you, what, uh, elements of a sustainable business do you care most about or what important to you about the people? Friendly practices were much more important to people than the earth friendly practices. Any idea

[00:16:43]Bryan Fields: why?

[00:16:46]Chris Becker: I think some of it is the timing of the surveys right now we’re in like a labor revolution, right?

[00:16:51] Where people are waking up to realize the value of their production. Um, and then I think there’s also a [00:17:00] lack of education around all the green washing stuff that does go on. So people assume that they are making sustainable choices already when in fact that they’re, they’re making the same choices.

[00:17:09] Everybody else.

[00:17:11]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Some people might have a false sense of what actually is happening, right? If you put your stuff in the recycling, but the garbage man takes the, the plastic and throws into the garbage, are you really recycling? And, and eventually that it’s like, Hey, what is really happening after that?

[00:17:24] So I wanna stay with the grams. You said you have a five gram product, right? So you have, the eighth is wasn’t enough. And then you went to a five, was there kind of conversations about four and a half or six? Or how did you settle on.

[00:17:38]Chris Becker: Um, conversations with customers in a little bit of tuition, uh, and also trying to settle on a, uh, price point that was at, or under $50 at the retail level.

[00:17:51]Bryan Fields: That’s fascinating. So let’s talk about the, the marketing for the products. It has more of the desired effects on it versus the actual strain. Right? Can you take us through the origin of that and how [00:18:00] your team came to that decision?

[00:18:02]Chris Becker: Uh, we use peace, pause and party instead of indica hybrid sativa, to try to guide people as to the effects of the products that they can expect to experience, uh, and give them another reason to reach for our product on the shelf.

[00:18:18] Um, cannabis branding is all about giving people a reason to P reach for your product. From six feet away and behind a piece of glass, right? So you need to be loud and proud and colorful. And, and, um, so that’s what we did. We used peace PA party. We came up with that. It was one of my partners and I had a hour long phone call and smoke session.

[00:18:41] And, uh, tried to come up with different words. Um, Peace and party came first. And then, uh, I believe she just dove into with the sous as we were both smoking joints on the phone, found the word pause, and that was it. We, we, we were done [00:19:00] I love it. So what is

[00:19:01]Bryan Fields: pause?

[00:19:03]Chris Becker: Pause is your hybrid strains. It’s really good for resetting your day it’s it’s anytime.

[00:19:09] I got it. So

[00:19:10]Bryan Fields: if I wanted to fall into the couch, I wouldn’t have pause. If I wanted to reset my day and maybe jumpstart of the afternoon session, I would take the pause.

[00:19:17]Chris Becker: Right? Exactly. And if you really want some high energy, those party strains, those like high energy Sativa’s with the Laine and that kind of thing and the Piney.

[00:19:26] Um, but the pause is just good. Chill, anytime. Reset your day, smoke those,

[00:19:32]Kellan Finney: uh, names resonate pretty well with all of your guys’

[00:19:35]Chris Becker: growers and vendors. Most people say it’s cute. One person said that they didn’t like the, you know, I like triple PS, but you know, I

[00:19:44]Bryan Fields: like it. You gotta have one person who doesn’t like it.

[00:19:46] Right. Otherwise you’re not right. If everyone, if everyone was saying yes to it, I think there’d be more of an issue. So I think it’s good. That person had some pause right with it. No fun intended. So let’s talk about cannabis grown indoors [00:20:00] versus outdoors. How do consumers tell a difference and how, how do.

[00:20:05] Consumers, if we wanna make that priority difference, how do we recognize the importance of that?

[00:20:10]Chris Becker: Sure. So there is a. Dramatic impact to the environment from growing indoors, that many consumers aren’t aware of. Um, when you shut off the, the natural Ray of the sun and then power up, uh, high power grow lights, you end up consuming just a ton of energy.

[00:20:30] And you also need to use, uh, H V a C to keep things either hot or cool, depending on where you’re growing. That’s so detrimental to our environment. Sun grown cannabis does not use power from the grid. Um, if it’s, uh, grown in soil, living soil, it’s not using commercial agricultural inputs, it’s not, um, having this, uh, negative impact on, on soil and water quality and all that kind of stuff.

[00:20:58] So [00:21:00] if people care about the future, I, I, I encourage them to, to choose sun grown cannabis, really. Um, on top of that sun grown cannabis. routinely has higher levels of total cannabinoids and terpenes than cannabis. That’s grown indoors. The sun gives the plant the full spectrum of light and in turn, the plant produces the full spectrum of cannabinoids and terpenes that it’s capable of.

[00:21:25] Uh, so if you grow the same plant side by side indoors versus outdoors, genetically identical plants, you’re gonna have a superior plant in the outdoor environment. It’s

[00:21:38]Kellan Finney: gonna be healthier. I mean, there’s less pest problems when they are grown outside. I mean, they tend to be stronger plants. Um, it’s, it’s wild to me.

[00:21:46] I mean, outdoor cannabis should be the way that cannabis has grown. And it’s very, very interesting that all of these mature markets have. Kind of placed a premium on the bud structure and [00:22:00] the aesthetics of an indoor plant versus an outdoor plant. And personally, from a consumption standpoint, I think it’s a more enjoyable experience consuming outdoor

[00:22:09]Chris Becker: flour.

[00:22:10] Absolutely. I agree. I mean,

[00:22:11]Kellan Finney: right. And you don’t have to, like all of the chemicals that are used in the production of indoor cannabis is where you’ve seen 70 plus pesticides now have to be tested for in California because people are throwing every chemical. They can at these indoor plants because it’s inherently not natural for the plant to be grown inside.

[00:22:30] And so I think that there’s a huge, huge

[00:22:32]Chris Becker: issue. Yep. Absolutely. You still have to fight some of those things when you grow outdoors. Um, but it, it, you can net use less product outdoors in my opinion, and you do much happier, more resilient plants, stronger plants, bigger plants with bigger yields at a much lower cost way, bigger plants.

[00:22:52] Um, I think, you know, the, the, the thing with mature markets and, and the reason. Indoor cannabis has persevered [00:23:00] is, uh, the, the state by state legalization versus just federal reform. I think if, if people could buy in the mail cannabis grown in the Emerald triangle or in Southern Oregon outdoors, they wouldn’t buy indoor grown weed from MSOs or anybody else really.

[00:23:18] I mean, you have a few small indoor craft growers locally, and then most people would prefer the legacy. Crops growing, uh, places that are favorable for growing cannabis. I think

[00:23:32]Bryan Fields: one of the challenges though, as a consumer, is that exactly what you said, Chris, is that you look with your eyes. So when you see a plant that has a certain, um, appearance to it, you kind of just gravitate towards that and you can’t really tell the difference.

[00:23:44] So if it’s labeled, maybe I could see that, but like exactly, like you said, Chris consumers look first with their eyes and then, then reach. So how do they tell the difference between the plant, whether it’s sun grown or indoor grown just by their.

[00:23:57]Chris Becker: With your eyes. It’s pretty hard to tell. [00:24:00] Um, good, good outdoor grown cannabis is indistinguishable from good indoor grown cannabis, except for sort of the health and, and brightness of the buds.

[00:24:12] Really. Uh, we chose to put the words sustainably grown on our packaging. Um, you know, as the market evolves, you need to give people a reason to reach for it. And, um, The word sustainably grown seem to resonate with people. Um, you can’t say things like organic because the U S D a does not, you know, apply organic designation to cannabis farms.

[00:24:35] Um, so we’re, we’re, we’re trying to find those words and qualities that do resonate with the. Consumer that make it meaningful. There are other certifications as well that people put on their packaging on an earth certification, um, clean green certification to try to indicate that it has similar qualities, but, um, we’re hoping to be the leader in sustainable cannabis so that people see honeybee collective and immediately [00:25:00] go that’s good.

[00:25:00] Clean earth friendly.

[00:25:03]Kellan Finney: Yeah, and I think that’s so important. I mean, I remember when we, when I was up in Washington, the only way that they could, uh, determine the difference was by the license. So the license that was acquired was an outdoor license. And so there’s a premium on indoor flower. And I remember going to multiple dispensaries and talking to the managers there and then being like, it looks the same, but I have to price it at $10 less because your license says you grew it outdoors.

[00:25:31]Bryan Fields: And even more so though, right? Like as a consumer and I walk in, I’m not gonna tell a difference. It, you would need to say it on the packaging for me, even to notice that, or I’d have to ask the bud tender to provide a recommendation there. And as we’ve seen before, uh, packaging, isn’t the easiest of game navigate given all of the, the wording that has to go on it because it is litter with information.

[00:25:50] So having that kind of stand out you’re right from a brand standpoint, it’s really critical to have that information be kind of a core principle to the brands that the consumer knows going in. This [00:26:00] is the expectation. This is the trust factor that I get with the honeybee collective. And I know that it’s an

[00:26:04] outdoor

[00:26:04]Chris Becker: grown flower green.

[00:26:07] Yeah. And, and we do source from greenhouse growers as well. So one thing I will say is that we really believe greenhouse growing is, uh, a happy medium and, um, provides a lot of the benefits of outdoors, the lower, uh, energy usage and all that kind of stuff. Um, but gives you the environmental control, uh, ability to keep pests out ability to moderate temperature and that kind of thing.

[00:26:30]Bryan Fields: So let’s move on. What is blunts and bingo?

[00:26:34]Chris Becker: Blunts and bingo is a fundraiser event. We just had this past weekend, we had about 75 people come out. We played bingo. We gave out prizes from Jane West. Jayden Jane elements, Boulder dispensary, um, lady J lady justice, brewing, death and co uh, skin, lab, Denver, uh, fields of weed.

[00:26:56] We had so many great sponsors here and, um, [00:27:00] ultimately we were raised 1070 $7 for a local, uh, mutual aid project called Denver community fridges that has free food fridges around town to feed people that need it.

[00:27:10]Bryan Fields: Awesome. So how, how does it work? What is like, what is BS and bingo? Is it exactly like it.

[00:27:15]Chris Becker: It’s exactly like it sounds we had a, uh, bingo, uh, we had games, bingo and a blunt rolling competition at the first licensed cannabis bar in Colorado. So Jas mile high smoke just opened up. They are the first place in Colorado where you can go and buy weed and smoke it right there. Um, they have it, it used to be a bar.

[00:27:35] So you’re actually buying weed over a bar. You can buy up to two grams of flour or a half a gram of concentrates or some combination of edibles and, uh, People were rolling blunts. We had a blunt rolling competition. People were playing bingo. We fed everybody and, uh, we had some raffle prizes. It was a great time.

[00:27:54]Bryan Fields: Who was the judge of the contest?

[00:27:56]Chris Becker: The blunt rolling competition, a local radio host. [00:28:00] How did

[00:28:00]Bryan Fields: he, how did he judge? Was it by taste? Was it by size? Look.

[00:28:04]Chris Becker: She, uh, did look, feel and smoked every single ju blunt that got entered. So she smoked about 12 blunts. she didn’t smoke. ’em all down to the end, but she hit every single one of ’em, uh, and, uh, ultimately chose the winner based on look and, uh, quality of the pool.

[00:28:25] I, they were also weed, so she didn’t have to judge the quality of. I could

[00:28:28]Bryan Fields: imagine towards the end of that contest, it was a little harder to judge she’s like, well, I really like the last two and I’m not really sure which one I like more. Maybe I just keep going. Um, and just be a universal tie. I gotta hand it to her.

[00:28:37] That is, that is dedicated to the judging contest. I, I expected you to be the judge if we’re gonna be honest, Chris, ,

[00:28:44]Chris Becker: you know, I, I, I. Uh, I, I would’ve chosen the same winner. I think his, his blunt little pretty good, well said,

[00:28:52]Bryan Fields: well said. So let’s, let’s kind of shift the conversation and let’s talk about one of the, the common conversations on Twitter.

[00:28:59][00:29:00] MSOs. Obviously there’s a lot of challenges with going on in the space and some may argue that they’re not doing things necessarily the right way and can do a better job of helping making a more equitable industry. So, Chris. in your opinion, what can MSOs do today in order to do a better job of making a more inclusive industry?

[00:29:19]Chris Becker: Um, MSOs could start by not promoting self-interested, uh, legislation. I, I think is like, stop doing harm is, is, is the first thing. Um, I, I don’t even need them to do anything actively to promote a more equitable industry. Just please stop actively supporting, uh, policies and laws that are inequitable and really just cement their positions.

[00:29:53] That, that that’s the first ask. Um, I I, if they really wanna support an equitable [00:30:00] industry, I think an equitable industry has no caps on licenses and, uh, allows for home grow and allows for easy access for patients and entrepreneurs and consumers to all get the things that they need and participate in the industry.

[00:30:14] So, um, coming out and supportive. Open access laws, both for consumption and for, uh, accessing the industry. Um, I personally know executives at single state and multi-state operators that are not even pro recreational legalization. So it’s, um, it it’s, you know, they, they could come out supporting policies that are good for entrepreneurs and good for consumer.

[00:30:41]Bryan Fields: I know that’s a real sticky, sticky subject, and I kind of feel similar to you, right? The limited licenses, I think only lead to kind of more challenges and UN unfortunately, potentially more bribery and more corruption, which again, I think is, is hurting the industry as a whole, but, but on the, on the flip side, Not to defend the MSOs.

[00:30:56] The longer this goes on like this, the longer they’re building their [00:31:00] moat from the other challenges and protecting themselves from the bigger fish that are coming in. So from their standpoint, they are helping the industry, but also protecting their investment in asset, which I agree is not beneficial for the

[00:31:11]Chris Becker: collective.

[00:31:13] Exactly. It’s um, One, the motivations became really perverse. Once anybody acquired a limited license right now, you have a damn near a duty to your shareholders to preserve that. I mean, my old employer sued the state of Maryland for opening up social equity licenses. What they said at the time was the state promised that they would do a demand, uh, study before they ever issued any licenses, which was true.

[00:31:46] Um, but they were called racist and everything else because they were blocking social equity, blocking minority participation in the cannabis industry. They, uh, [00:32:00] dropped the lawsuit and, and those licenses did end up being issued in Maryland.

[00:32:09] Yeah. As, as soon as you have one of these limited licenses, your duty is to protect it. And, um, for, from a pure capitalist perspective, not from my values, not from what I wanna steer for the industry, but surely from a capital perspective, less competition is better. Right.

[00:32:25]Bryan Fields: I mean, bore Jordan. I’ve had this conversation on Twitter.

[00:32:28] Many times, bore Jordan doesn’t work for the cannabis industry. He works for the purely shareholders and his job and role is to protect his assets, to make it grow as much as possible. And if that means hurting others in a, let’s say not hurting others directly, but in influencing policy in order to better protect his position, he should do that.

[00:32:47] And, and that’s unfortunately kind of the, the name of space. I guess to push the question back on you, Chris is why do you think they states did limited licenses? What do you think was the original intention of it? Was it, uh, a different concept that kind of got misconstrued along the [00:33:00] way, or take us through what you think was the original goal of limited licenses?

[00:33:04]Chris Becker: Um, some of the people that owned limited licenses were involved in the writing of limited license loss. So that’s the first thing is people saw, Hey, uh, We can get legislators to limit licenses based on the fear that they have of legalization. Um, limited license schemes were more palatable in purple and, um, and even some blue states where there’s still a lot of prohibition surround, uh, or, or conservative culture for whatever reason.

[00:33:39] Um, so it’s, it, it was a way in, and in my opinion, Activists should have held out for better legislation. Um, but there’s a lot of people that feel any access is better than no access. And I’m not gonna fault them for that because there are people [00:34:00] like that desperately need medical cannabis that now have it due to these limited license laws.

[00:34:06] Yeah, I think from a, like

[00:34:07]Kellan Finney: a strictly philosophical perspective, I think that, uh,

[00:34:12]Bryan Fields: the idea was

[00:34:13]Kellan Finney: that. Hey, let’s not let every person come in and start growing weed and just flood the

[00:34:18]Bryan Fields: entire state with

[00:34:20]Kellan Finney: weed. It was like, Hey, we just want to a very small and, uh, very small amount of operators so that we can regulate them and keep track of it.

[00:34:29] I think that was the idea. Philosophically of course it really never panned out like that from the idea to, from concept

[00:34:36]Chris Becker: to execution. Yep. Yeah, there, there, there was like a little bit of merit to the idea that like, Well, not really merit, but the legislatures many times forced the regulators to be self-funded through tax collection.

[00:34:54] Um, I was and then like, after sales had already [00:35:00] commenced. Right. Um, so. New regulators that had never looked at or knew how to regulate cannabis before all of a sudden are like asking the people that have a license. Hey, how are we supposed to regulate you? And it’s, uh, it, it, it just doesn’t work out the way that they meant it to.

[00:35:21] So you’re telling me the horse shouldn’t

[00:35:22]Kellan Finney: push the cart. It should pull it, pull it.

[00:35:26]Bryan Fields: okay. I like to use the comparison of like the Willy Wonka golden pig. When I talk about the limit license of my friends. Right. Because if you think about it, it, these massive markets that haven’t come online yet, and there’s only, let’s say six to 12.

[00:35:37] Stations that are open. I mean, you’re talking about a massive opportunity to get a huge head start and to play the other side, Carolyn, to challenge you is like, I understand why it’d be beneficial to limit it so people can regulate it. But at the same part, like this is America, right? Like this is capitalism, like figure it out and like the strong survive.

[00:35:54] And unfortunately many business will fail. That’s part of the process, but at least everyone has a fair crack at the game. And I [00:36:00] think at least if the game was fair to start, many people wouldn’t feel like there would be, um, Missed opportunities or challenges in the beginning in order to get their foot in the door for this burgeoning opportunity.

[00:36:12] Yeah. I mean, I, go

[00:36:14]Kellan Finney: ahead, Chris. You go ahead. No, I was just gonna say that, um, Unfortunately, like if you let everyone just have a crack at it, like now we’re, you kind of look at California, right? Like you have people that went out and got licenses. You have people that did it. They’re all kind of selling cannabis in this super gray area.

[00:36:31] And I mean, it’s, it’s a giant mess out there. You know what I mean? So like, I don’t know if, and they don’t have a cap on licenses in California.

[00:36:38]Chris Becker: I think their problems are more related to the structure of their market and high taxation within their borders. Um, it, it. A saturated market to, to, to Brian’s point is a very American capitalist thing.

[00:36:56] I mean, I, I, I don’t know why we should be afraid of that. The strong should survive and the weak [00:37:00] should perish in the business environment, in my opinion. Um, anything else is corporate socialism. Uh, and I, I don’t understand why there’s this like tendency towards corporate socialism, but like for, for people it’s like, kick rocks, you know, um, It’s really sad in my opinion.

[00:37:18] So I, I believe that like a competitive environment really creates the best companies. And that’s the one thing I think that is really shortsighted about these limited license laws is that ultimately it’s allowing these companies to like, create. Very unsustainable business models that, um, if cannabis were treated like other commodity products, their businesses wouldn’t exist, they would die off very quickly.

[00:37:42] Um, just, like you know, you talked about MSOs, there’s a lot of people growing weed in Florida, you would never grow weed in Florida. If you could import it from California. Because the conditions are terrible for growing weed, even indoor, they are, you’re fighting a crazy amount of [00:38:00] heat. Like it it’s insane. And humidity and humidity.

[00:38:02] Yeah. Um, so you know, that, that that’s, those are now all a bunch of unsustainable businesses. All of that real estate is going to be like non-viable defunct in a, in a, in 5 to 10 years, to your point, Bryan it is a golden ticket and many of those places will already have been paid off. I know people in Maryland that have already paid off their facilities and their investors are receiving distributions because it’s.

[00:38:29] Fucking cash cow. Excuse my language. But, uh, yeah, when you’re selling $4,000 pounds of something that costs you under $800 a pound produce, it’s a great business to be in. Good margins margins are

[00:38:41]Bryan Fields: booming, right? That’s booming, but it’s also not real and it’s not sustainable right. Long term. And I, I think it even gets crazier too, is because like, once we go to interstate commerce, I understand we are far from there.

[00:38:52] But once we get to that, all of the current operators who are all vertically integrated are gonna have to pretty much shuffle in their cards again and, and [00:39:00] redistribute how they wanna do their operations. Because like you said, there’s no reason to grow. Weed in Florida, if you could grow it in California and import it, plus you can special, you can specialize in certain portions of the supply chain, which ultimately the consumer benefits, right?

[00:39:13] Because he’s getting a more, let’s say high end product by a more established individual. It doesn’t have to lean on these big MSOs to be stretched super thin from a capital standpoint and by resource a resource standpoint across supply chain.

[00:39:25]Chris Becker: Absolutely. I think that’s a very real weakness, um, of, of the MSOs is that.

[00:39:32] How many executives are truly Jeff Bezoses that can piece all these things together, right? And, and, and oversee a conglomerate in all these different, highly specialized areas of business, not that many and what they had sick margins anyway, that they could fund any pet project they wanted to, which is not gonna be the truth for people that grow cannabis in a low margin environ.

[00:39:55]Bryan Fields: No way it’s pretty wild and it’s cool. It’s, it’s fascinating to think about it now and recognize [00:40:00] where we’re going in the future, but, and also to watch it from a case study standpoint, to see how these big companies handle the transitions as they kind of not necessarily sell off assets, but they kind of redistribute their organization internally in order to prepare for the next steps, because I’m sure they’ll get a, a heads up that, Hey, something like this is happening in three to five years.

[00:40:17] It’s time to start selling off some of your assets. And then I think we can kind of get word and recognize it. It’s probably more, uh, peasant people in the, in the news space of recognizing the, the steps are currently happen.

[00:40:29]Chris Becker: I think the people that already have this foresight about the future of like the structure of the market are, um, franchising, their dispensaries, and they’re not going vertical in every market that they’re expanding into.

[00:40:40] Uh, I think you’re gonna see a lot more of that. There’s a few franchises that are really taking a lot of real estate here in Colorado. Uh, I know my old employer, uh, is now franchising their dispensary experience and, um, I think you’ll see a lot more of that. And, and that’s to preserve against like, if you can’t have tide houses and [00:41:00] alcohol, and so people see that and they’re, they’re seeing, oh, I’m gonna be forced to divest all these dispensaries that I own.

[00:41:06] Yeah. And I think

[00:41:07]Kellan Finney: that, uh, also I think there’s a challenge to going vertical in every state. Like you don’t look at any other industry and be like, Hey, like Coors light brew beer in every state. Right. Like that’s not a thing. Right? Like so like it, it just doesn’t work economically speaking, you know, like there’s just, it’s a fine line.

[00:41:26] Like you don’t build manufacturing plants in every single municipality.

[00:41:33]Bryan Fields: Like economies of scale is like a real thing, right? Yeah. That’s whatever, that’s a real thing. And like, from a number standpoint, it’s real. So I wonder too, like when we get there, I wonder if the cost of production will just kind of completely drop too, as, as things specialize and then they’re able to outsource to other areas.

[00:41:47] So, uh, slightly switching gears, Chris, what is one state company or policy that you think is doing things the right way?

[00:41:57]Chris Becker: I’m really impressed with the way New York is, is [00:42:00] rolling out their market. Um, they are favoring. Uh, more sustainably grown cannabis in terms of they issued licenses to hemp growers who will either be growing outdoors or.

[00:42:10] in Relatively small greenhouses. Um, they’re giving license. They, they giving licenses to farmers also gives license, gives life to farms. And I think that’s incredibly important because farmers are struggling cannabis, in my opinion, should be grown in an agricultural outdoor setting, not in an indoor factory setting.

[00:42:32] Um, and, and if that can help save small family farms that are otherwise Almost guaranteed to go out of existence. Uh, I think that’s great and admirable. And then on the retail side, they’re prioritizing social equity. They’re prioritizing, uh, restorative justice by giving licenses to people who were, uh, impacted by the war on drugs.

[00:42:53] And I think that’s the right way to go. So I, I really admire New York with the way New York is doing it. I’m sure there’s lot. [00:43:00] Uh, I, I think they’re, they’ve gotten it the most, right. So far. Yeah.

[00:43:05]Bryan Fields: The so far is the super important part, right? Like they’re taking the steps and they’re, they’re vocalizing items to go forward.

[00:43:11] But at any moment, you know, they could take a bad step to the right of

[00:43:15]Kellan Finney: the left. I mean, they’re, they’re definitely taking their time

[00:43:17]Bryan Fields: to get it right. Ah, that’s not fair, dude. end of the, they said end of the year, they said, end of the year, I know we’re running out of time. Right. We’re recording this on July 27th.

[00:43:26] And they said end of the year confidently, but like guys, like. We don’t have more, many more

[00:43:30]Chris Becker: months left. I, I I’d bet a little bit of money that they’ll make at least a sale before the first and next, at least a sale.

[00:43:37]Bryan Fields: it’ll be like December, December 31st. Right? They’re like, we just gotta get this one in, like, just get a photo op quick, right?

[00:43:44] Like get the photo op in and cut the ribbon. You think they get it done before the end of the year?

[00:43:50]Chris Becker: I, I bet that at least one just because it’s. The PR style PR and then the momentum. And they said it, I mean, I, [00:44:00] you know, I believe it. Have you seen,

[00:44:02]Bryan Fields: have you seen like the tr yeah, me too, but like again, have you seen the trucks and some of the other, um, retail front stores that they have in New York?

[00:44:10] I mean, they, they look as close to a dispensary responsible. I had a cousin who stayed with me. He lives in, in Portland and he said that he walked by, it looked like AEN. He had no idea. New York was open and. He went in, they did the normal, the normal jam. He came home with products. He was so stoked to show me.

[00:44:26] He’s like, you told me it wasn’t open. I was like, it’s not. He’s like, then what is this? And I was like, it is not a licensed dispensary, sir. And he was just blown away. And I’m curious to know if you have a perspective on that, right? These operators, or I guess under the radar operators are currently operating any legal storefront selling products in a quote unquote grain market, either as a non-profit or a gifting status in order to escape the loophole.

[00:44:47] What’s your thoughts

[00:44:48]Chris Becker: there? I think that anything, any activity that is currently defined as illicit cannabis is really a tax collection issue and nothing more than that. Right. I, I, I don’t [00:45:00] believe that cannabis should be criminalized in any way for any amount or any growing or processing. None of that should be a jailable criminal offense.

[00:45:10] All. Tax evasion. So if those guys are evading taxes, I mean, you know, I’m, I’m not huge fan of tax taxes myself, but like that’s in my mind, that’s the only thing that they’re guilty of. Right. I, I think it’s very risky and I personally wouldn’t engage in it just like for the threat of federal crackdown or like the inability to get a license, a legal license in that market in the future.

[00:45:34] But Hey, it’s a smart cash grab, right?

[00:45:38]Kellan Finney: And I mean, at the end of the day, it just shows you how much demand out there is for canvas.

[00:45:43]Chris Becker: Yep. Yeah. I think it’ll be, you know, uh, it’ll be difficult, but not impossible to, um, to compete with those. I think that they probably will get. Look at Colorado, right? Like I,

[00:45:59]Kellan Finney: I don’t buy no one.

[00:45:59][00:46:00] I know, buys weed from a drug dealer in Colorado. Right, right.

[00:46:02]Bryan Fields: Like so I think the consumer is the one that’s gonna be heard in this. Right. Because if you, if you’re just not familiar with products and you go there and let’s say you take a product, that’s not tested third party tested. And God forbid something happens that just becomes the spiral effect in my opinion.

[00:46:17] And I think that just kind of hurts it from a public perception of. The nuances with cannabis and all these X, Y, and Z stuff that, that you see on the media where people use cannabis as the scapegoat. Chris, what is an underrecognized challenge? Operating cannabis that most don’t recognize.

[00:46:38]Chris Becker: Um, I there’s this big scam called metric that , that takes, uh, just a fraction of every single transaction that you do in cannabis.

[00:46:53] Uh, whether you are putting a plant in the ground, moving that plant from. Like one part of your [00:47:00] facility or harvesting it or moving it and selling it to a, to a dispensary, you have to have these little blue tags that cost 25 to 50 cents. Every time they create this ridiculous amount of plastic waste. Um, they’re not recyclable because they have an RFI D tag in them that nobody uses.

[00:47:19] And, um, And their, and their system is constantly down and it’s, and it’s the mandated seed, the sale tracking system in most states. So, um, that is a huge impediment, I would say, I would say just metric being down is one of the biggest impediments to productivity in the cannabis industry. It’s a good monopoly.

[00:47:43] They have. It’s great. I’m sure their investors are swimming in dollars. They’re just

[00:47:49]Bryan Fields: printing cash hundred percent. I mean, it’s required in

[00:47:52]Kellan Finney: like, There’s no other option. When we talk about there’s leave two solutions in Washington, but like, I think like everyone’s gonna be on [00:48:00] metric

[00:48:00]Chris Becker: eventually. I believe Vermont is going with another company called traits as well.

[00:48:05] Oh see. So now there’s

[00:48:06]Kellan Finney: what three

[00:48:07]Bryan Fields: options maybe we, we talk about like limited licenses and then challenges in states. These boys got it lockdown. Right? Like they got it locked down on a whole nother level. I can only imagine what they’re we gotta get one of those guys on the podcast and see what’s going on

[00:48:21]Chris Becker: there.

[00:48:22] Yeah. Yeah. They like Rockefeller is like in his grave admiring metric. He’s like, oh my God, I wish I had a metric. He’s just tip

[00:48:31]Bryan Fields: his cap. He’s like these boys got a damn since you’ve been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been the biggest misconception?

[00:48:40]Chris Becker: The biggest misconception.

[00:48:45] I think probably that there’s immense profits in the industry, um, in the legal industry, there’s not, most ones are like comparable to typical manufacturing plus they’re tax disadvantage. [00:49:00] So you have less profit. Uh, I think that’s probably the biggest misconception overall about cannabis is that these companies are just printing money.

[00:49:07] Um, But from within the industry, I also see this misconception that like a business’ success or failure depends on them, like really exploiting labor and paying low wages. And when I look at our business model and the business model of our suppliers, A couple bucks more an hour does, does very little to, to the profitability.

[00:49:33] Uh, but it does so much for the happiness of the, uh, employees. So that’s one, that’s a big thing just from within the industry that I’m passionate about. Seeing change really well

[00:49:43]Bryan Fields: said before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?

[00:49:57]Chris Becker: Well, the next generation, I don’t know, [00:50:00] this advice will be so valuable for, but like anybody listening in the next year, like the opportunity is still very real. And you do not need to you, your experience in other industries translates directly into cannabis and, and can. Like create incredible value. Um, so I, I would say just, don’t hesitate to dive in if you’re passionate about it.

[00:50:22] Um, but also don’t dive in if you’re thinking about just dollar signs, because it’s as stressful or more as any other entrepreneurial venture. Uh, and, um, like I said before, the profits just like, are not as incredible as many people think.

[00:50:40]Bryan Fields: Amen. All right, prediction time, Chris, I dropped you off in DC with the ability to change any law or policy you want.

[00:50:49] What is the first step of item you’re changing?

[00:50:54]Chris Becker: Oh, um, I mean the, the, the first thing I would change, if it’s just a single item is two a D E [00:51:00] and, and, uh, having the ability to, to write off, uh, appropriate expenses. Right. I mean, that, that’s the big, the big thing, keeping many companies from being profitable is like, this is tax disadvantaged, uh, activity, uh, and we’re, we’re overpay and not able to weight things off.

[00:51:17] So that’s the first thing I would change. Um, what’s the next thing you change? Well, actually I would, I would take a step back. I mean, like the first thing I would do is like free all the prisoners and probably abolish prisons in general, actually if we were just talking about cannabis, but if we’re taking a broader view, I’m doing something, not just about like cannabis prisoners, but just like the prison industrial complex in general, because it’s like, just so unjust.

[00:51:50] There is no justice in the justice system. So actually that is the first thing I would, and I would not just do something cannabis related.

[00:51:58]Bryan Fields: What’s that? K [00:52:00] uh, cannabis related.

[00:52:01]Kellan Finney: I would probably, uh, legalize banking in cannabis. You know, I think that there’s so many people that would get involved if they could just go to a bank and get a commercial loan.

[00:52:12] Um, and I think it’d be really, really beneficial to the whole industry. And I think couple, I think, opposed, uh, to limited license, the fact that there’s no institutional, uh, support for the industry is the, the other item that’s kind of like limiting people’s ability to get involved and participate. So that would be the biggest thing I would

[00:52:32]Bryan Fields: change.

[00:52:32] What about you, Brian? The capital standpoint is just outrageous, right? Like starting one of these businesses is so much more capital intensive than I think I ever realized, and we’re not even plant touching. So I can’t even imagine what some of these other operators have to go through. I think for me be the limited licenses like we talked about before, I think.

[00:52:50] In in America, you should have the ability to enter industries. You want to given obviously certain understandings. And I think in, in here, you, if you want to [00:53:00] own a dispensary and you have the, the ability to do it, you should be able to do it. You shouldn’t be limited to certain numbers or certain aspects.

[00:53:06] If you can check all the boxes, demonstrate that your qualified individual, you should have the opportunity to compete here for chance for generational wealth. You know, not everyone is handed a participation trophy and unfortunately some will fail. But I think having the opportunity to compete is really all you could ask for in a space like this.

[00:53:25] So Chris, for our listeners, they wanna get in touch. They wanna learn more and they wanna support the honeybee collective and attend BS and bingo. Where can they find ya?

[00:53:33]Chris Becker: So, uh, join the hive on our website, honeybee collective.com. There’s a box you can enter your email and your phone number. We’ll let you having fast giveaways when new product drops, all that kind of stuff.

[00:53:46] So that’s the best way to stay in touch with us. You can also follow us on, uh, social media at the dot honeybee dot collective. You can follow us on Twitter at honeybee Cano. Um, I’m Chris at [00:54:00] Chris underscore honeybee. Uh, if you want kind of more hot takes on the industry. Uh and uh, I think that’s all of our socials.

[00:54:08] Yeah.

[00:54:09]Bryan Fields: Yeah. I link them open the show notes. Thanks for taking the time. This was fun.

[00:54:12]Chris Becker: Yeah, it was. Thanks guys. Thanks Chris.