Author: Joy

1 Former Top Minnesota Lawmaker Launches Cannabis-Infused Drink Company

2 Missouri paces to be the fastest state to reach $1B in cannabis sales

3 16 Bipartisan Congress Members Urge Biden Administration To Make Cannabis Scheduling Review Transparent

4 Delta-8 Is Legal And The United Nations Is Dead Wrong About Cannabis

5 UN Suggests U.S. Federal Government Must Force States To Repeal Marijuana Legalization To Comply With International Treaty

6 Marijuana MSO TerrAscend applies to list shares on Toronto Stock Exchange

7 Minnesota Senators Approve Major Overhaul Of Marijuana Legalization Bill, With House Previewing Similar Move

8 Hawaii Marijuana Legalization And Psychedelics Research Bills Advance To Senate Floor Votes Following Committee Approval

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Research continues to show alcohol is harmful. If only a substitute social tonic could provide that happy feeling without the hangovers.

This week on The Dime, we host Luke Anderson, Co-Founder at Cann, to discuss:  

• Crossfading: Mixing of Alcohol & Cannabis.
• Why Altering Framework Unlocks Beverage Category
• Misconceptions on Beverage Market Size

About Cann:

Cann is a sessionable drink, meaning you can control and build your buzz because it’s microdosed with just the right amount of THC. With a typical onset of just 10-15 minutes, start with one and go from there. For those new(ish) to cannabis, we typically recommended 1-2 Canns.

About Luke Anderson:

Luke Anderson is the co-founder of Cann, the world’s first micro-dose THC beverage. With his colleague Jake Bullock, Anderson launched Cann in 2019, disrupting the industry with a sessionable cannabis-infused beverage line.

Guest Links:

• https://drinkcann.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/company/drinkcann/
• https://twitter.com/drinkcann

#cannabis-infusedbeverage #cannabisindustry #drinkcann

Follow us: Our Links.

At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev), we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.

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[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys? Welcome back to that episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields and with me as always, as Ke Finney this week, and we’ve got a very special guest, Luke Anderson, co-founder. Can Luke, thanks for taking the time. How you doing today?

[00:00:13]Luke Anderson: Thanks for having me. I mean, I would say I’m doing great, but it is a blood bath out here and so I am barely hanging on

[00:00:23]Bryan Fields: I

[00:00:23]Kellan Finney: love it. Ke. How are you doing? I’m doing well. Really excited to talk to Luke. Really excited to talk beverage. And really excited for West Coast, right. Little West Coast representation. How are you Brian? I’m doing

[00:00:35]Bryan Fields: really good. Obviously I’m a big fan of beverages. I’m a big fan of Cam, but I think Luke, before we get started, we gotta talk a little East coast, west coast.

[00:00:41] I may have some East Coast ties, but would you call yourself a east coast or a west

[00:00:44]Luke Anderson: coaster? I’m a Boston boy. Through and through. I spent 18 years of my life, just like in and around Boston and um, I went to college on the west. Probably done more of my professional career in [00:01:00] LA in San Francisco, but I think there’s something that I love about how mean everybody is to your face on the East Coast.

[00:01:07] And I, I miss that because on the West coast everyone’s really nice to your face, but a lot happens behind your back. And, um, nobody in Boston have time for that. Love it. I

[00:01:18]Bryan Fields: love it. So let the record say another east coaster and a big, a big one for the East coast, but the West coast eyes. For our listeners that are unfilling about you, can you give it a little background about

[00:01:26]Luke Anderson: yourself?

[00:01:28] Uh, yeah. I, um, I mean, I’m a guy who went to college for something and then switched to something else, and whether it was a math teacher or management consultant or, uh, business school student or uh, weed soda maker and salesperson, I, I’ve kind of. Been a career journeyman between industries with the common thread of I love building things and I love building things that I would buy with my hard-earned dollars and that I would drink.

[00:01:59][00:02:00] Um, I, I worked at Jamba Juice in college, so there’s a little bit of a beverage through line dating back to 2007. And, um, my, my dad has been in the restaurant industry and I consulted for a lot of f and b and CPG companies during my six year run at ba. . Uh, so there’s um, there’s sort of a convergence of career related factors that led me to be interested in joining my business partner, Jake, whose original idea can was, um, and then also a lot of cannabis naivete.

[00:02:33] I was not a cannabis user at all unless it was by accident. And, and that was like eating too much of a pop brownie or coughing too hard off of a bong rip. I didn’t know how to, to suck in. and, uh, needing to be escorted out of a party because I didn’t know how to be high and talk to people, uh, that, that led me to this, this sort of microdose, CHC beverage journey.

[00:02:57] Uh, the one other piece of the puzzle is I have [00:03:00] historically been a very problematic alcohol drinker. I, I think, You know, in my mid twenties, that was especially bad and I, I had my first two day long hangover when I was in my early thirties, and those of us who know what it’s like to party too hard on a Saturday night and then feel it still on Monday morning, know that unless you’re really coasting.

[00:03:21] it can be really damaging to productivity and just general wellbeing. So even though I wasn’t an experienced cannabis user, I loved the idea of a drink that got you a little buzzed and didn’t make you hungover the next day. And, uh, in my mid twenties, I thought it was a ridiculous idea. And Jake, you know, when he talked about this and he, to his credit, he really saw this as a category that should exist 10 years before it really did.

[00:03:50] and, uh, I was on the other end of the table saying it was a silly idea because alcohol was enough of a problem for me. Why would I wanna incorporate another drug? [00:04:00] But, uh, everything in moderation, even moderation. It, it seems like cannabis has helped me personally drink half as much as I used to. and occasionally I do have those big, like, you know, 10 drink evenings that I wish I could erase from my memory.

[00:04:15] But, um, they’re a lot fewer and farther between and can is a big part of that.

[00:04:20]Bryan Fields: I, I think that’s so perfectly well said. There’s so many areas that I’m looking forward to diving in, but specifically for our East Coast listeners that are kind of new, what were those early days like for you with can and kind of getting the adoption of getting new users to try a product that maybe.

[00:04:33] Are is a little more uncommon. Right? Obviously everyone talks about the flower being the most popular one, but beverages are kind of up and coming in some spaces. So what are some of those challenges? Like in the early

[00:04:41]Luke Anderson: days when I was at Bain, um, the management consulting firm in London, in the two years before I started can, I worked on a lot of projects helping big CPG companies behave more like startup.

[00:04:58] and the whole [00:05:00] thesis behind that type of work was if you get a cross-functional team of six to eight people in a room. and you narrow the scope of what you’re trying to do to one city, one sku, and one retailer, and you just stay laser focused on that and just keep iterating and iterating until you figure out what works.

[00:05:21] You’ll learn so much by keeping the scope narrow that you can accomplish more in three months on a $500,000 budget. Than a traditional company would in 18 months on a five to 10 million budget. And so we, we deployed that same sort of, uh, structure in Cannes early days and said, let’s try to win with a six pack of this two milligram thc, three flavor.

[00:05:49] Multi pack and then get med men on board in Los Angeles, particularly West la and then, um, try to with the least amount of money [00:06:00] possible, see the sales just like keep happening. And it was a lot of sampling. It was a lot of standing on the street corner and begging somebody to buy the product. I, I think we traded.

[00:06:13] $10 sweatshirts in exchange for a six pack that people actually bought from MedEd next door at our Abbott Kenny popup as a way to drive volume for, uh, a couple of months and. in every conversation we had with somebody after trying the product and staying in touch with ’em over text message or email and learning about whether or not they would be more likely to buy it versus another cannabis product or buy it versus another alcohol product.

[00:06:41] We just kept sharpening our knowledge about at what price point at, at what calorie count, at what sugar content would we be needing to deliver a product for a customer to spend their money and keep coming. and once we saw that the repeat purchase rate in the early days was above 40% [00:07:00] on on certain platforms like ease, we knew that we could raise a bunch of money and then invest that money in truly global expansion because, The need for an alcohol substitute that gives you a little buzz and doesn’t make you hungover, that’s a universal need.

[00:07:15] So, um, and it, and it really extends far beyond, like traditional cannabis consumption patterns. It’s, it’s for people who have never consumed cannabis before, it’s a, it’s a great way for somebody to try cannabis for the first time and not have a bad time. So it was a lot of just like high touch customer interaction high-touch consumer research and, um, fail fast, pivot hard

[00:07:41]Bryan Fields: in those early days, how long did

[00:07:42]Kellan Finney: it take you guys to perfect your kind of early onset technology? Cause I know that’s

[00:07:47]Bryan Fields: a

[00:07:47]Luke Anderson: staple of can. Um, what’s funny is we actually lag behind a lot of the other beverages and how quick the onset is. We report like 10 to 15 minutes where there are some [00:08:00] nano, um, emulsion providers that, that deliver it in like, Or, or 10 we decided to go with an emulsion that was not winding on onset, but that one on being tasteless and odorless because our consumer was less concerned about feeling something really quickly and more concerned that it didn’t taste like weed or remind them of a bad cannabis experience they used to have.

[00:08:28] So we we diligence. , probably 18 different versions of emulsions and then tested them out in our backyard. And we were, we’re more focused on taste than on onset. Um, and that was how we made the decision. So

[00:08:44]Bryan Fields: kind of expanding on the model, the best thing to happen to drinking since drinking. I love that.

[00:08:49] Right? You, you get the feeling, you know exactly who that’s connecting with. So is the, the target customer? Is it for an alcohol consumer who’s looking to adopt? Is it both? How, how would you kind of see that leg playing

[00:08:58]Luke Anderson: out? [00:09:00] So in our early fundraising deck, the one slide that really resonated with people the most was 21 out of 25 adult drinkers said they want to drink less booze.

[00:09:12] And, and so unlike most cannabis brands who are trying to carbon niche within the traditional cannabis consumer, we are looking at the alcohol drinker that isn’t perfectly satisfied with the amount of alcohol they drink. and so it’s a much broader addressable market, but convincing those people to show up to a dispensary is the hard part.

[00:09:37] It takes a lot of hyper-local field marketing. It takes a lot of really creative campaigns that strike an emotional chord with people who fit certain demographic or behavioral or need state profiles and, um, because nobody’s really done it right in beverage, like we, we are. really Trying to figure out how to make this category work.[00:10:00]

[00:10:00] We have been a little bit scattershot with the strategies that we have employed to try to get those people in our ecosystem. Um, and I, and I still think we’re perfecting it. Like we, we haven’t yet gotten the targeting and the retargeting down yet. and the industry evolving as quickly as it is with the dispensary not being necessarily as monolithic as it was before.

[00:10:25] And with this Delta nine derived THC that’s technically exactly the same, but is a lot easier to access being something that we’re seeing grow a lot faster than other parts of our business. That strategy has to shift every three months. Um, so I think it, it took us, it took us, uh, probably. Six months to, to get it right within the dispensary channel in California.

[00:10:52] And it’s taken us four years to really only get it half right for, for what makes it sustainable. So with all those

[00:10:59]Kellan Finney: things [00:11:00] going on, I mean, how do you balance strategically moving forward with like states like New York coming online? Do you utilize that same playbook that you spent So, Learning about in California or do you kind of just try to be patient with the whole thing as this, uh, hemp drive Delta nine thing still, uh,

[00:11:17]Bryan Fields: materialize.

[00:11:20]Luke Anderson: we’re keeping the messaging about the value proposition the same, but where we deliver that messaging and how, whether it’s like big awareness campaign or like, you know, hyper local brand ambassador standing by a table. I think that’s where we look every single week, month, quarter, and figure out how to evolve the messaging or tailor it to the right place in the right time.

[00:11:45] I think. Holistically for our business, New York and New Jersey, just winning the tri-state area from a brand relevance perspective is number one. Um, but cannabis is kind of in a meltdown state right now. And so I [00:12:00] think like overall, we, if, if it was two years ago or last year even, and we had the resources that we had and we had this sort of, Everyone is investing in cannabis, and cannabis is happening kind of a wind behind us.

[00:12:15] We would be much more aggressive and much louder and prouder about how we’re doing it, and because of the macro climate and the industry being in the state that it is. , we have to be a little bit more self and a little bit more crafty about how we live in the tri-state area. So the messages are the same.

[00:12:32] Get a little bit buzzed. Don’t be hung over the next day. Hold something in your hand that you’re proud to hold because it says something about you as a person. And then, um, where we deliver that message, it kind of depends on how the landscape is evolving day to day. We, we care about dispensaries in New York.

[00:12:48] We want to be first on the shelves in, in all of them, but, uh, we’re finding. people are buying our product on subscription from our website a lot more frequently than we [00:13:00]

[00:13:00]Bryan Fields: expected. Yeah, that’s been one of the biggest challenges for me in New York is that I’ve been a big fan of beverages and getting the chance to purchase the products online was incredible opportunity and, and I brought those products to, uh, a friend’s house for, for New Years and for Christmas, and to see their faces for the first time, recognizing that there’s cannabis in here, they asked me pride.

[00:13:17] will I get high on this? What? Like, what should I expect? So I thought the best way to ask you, Luke, is like, for a new consumer who’s trying this cannabis beverage for the first time, maybe they’ve smoked in the past, maybe they haven’t. What would you, you say, from an expectation standpoint, on, on, on how to go about it?

[00:13:33]Luke Anderson: I’d tell everybody, treat it just like a glass of wine or a light beer. You’re never gonna feel more intoxicated off a can than you do off of a glass of wine or a light beer. Unless you have some really crazy tolerance issue and, you know, we’ve made and, and sold and put in consumer’s hands more than 10 million drinks over the last four years, and we don’t get any complaints.

[00:13:58] Um, some [00:14:00] people say they don’t feel anything if they’re like a, a higher potency consumer. , that’s fine. They, they generally think it tastes good and that it like pairs well with a, a different cannabis consumption experience. Um, but very, very seldom do we hear that somebody felt too intoxicated off of one can.

[00:14:18] And because they have these cute little resealable lids, you can drink half a can and close it back up and put it in the fridge if you really want. .

[00:14:24]Bryan Fields: Yeah. That was the experience I got. People thought it tasted incredible and they were then hesitant to believe that there was cannabis inside, and then, then their response was, I need to drink a hundred of these.

[00:14:33] And I was like, well, it doesn’t sound like it’s a problem now. You’re, you’re finding something you like, now you’re understanding the dosing. And I think can is that perfect beverage for those consumers who are newer to the space and understanding that beverage can be an opportunity for them that might be outside their normal thought process of what like a, an expectation is from a cannabis.

[00:14:50]Luke Anderson: Yeah. I mean it’s, to me it’s like great. Cann gets a lot of hate from like high THC consumers that think it’s almost like. I mean, on [00:15:00] one side, legacy operators who think that can is gentrifying cannabis. Like there, there’s something legitimate there that if you peel back the layers about how we built our brand and who we partner with, I think they tend to be a bit surprised and pleased with how respectful we are of the legacy market and legacy operators.

[00:15:20] Um, The people who are just like, this product shouldn’t exist. And it sucks cuz it doesn’t get you as high and like what bad value for your money. My, I have two answers. Like one is we don’t all drink ever clear, ever clear is the cheapest per ounce of alcohol. And if we want it to be as cost conscious as the the cannabis consumers that complain about.

[00:15:43] wanna be on a per ounce of alcohol basis, then like Whitelaw shouldn’t exist because Whitelaw is a lot more expensive per ounce of alcohol, and yet it has a much higher market share of overall alcohol sales than Everclear does. Um, and then the second thing is like, [00:16:00] I don’t wanna buy women’s lingerie. Uh, it doesn’t mean that, like, I don’t think Victoria’s Secret should exist.

[00:16:05] Like I think it’s a legitimate store and a legitimate brand and a legitimate business for women who are looking for lingerie. I’m not the target consumer, but I’m not gonna like go on blast and be like, This, I like my underwear to have longer legs. Like it’s just okay, don’t shop there, . Um, and, and if I go into Walmart, like I’m not gonna go into the toddler’s clothing section cuz I don’t have a baby.

[00:16:31] But it’s not like, I don’t think that baby’s clothes should exist because there are a lot of people out there that do have babies. So I, I, I understand from the perspective of someone who likes to smoke weed and get really high, why can, might feel like a really expensive way to do that, but it’s for somebody who’s trying to drink a little less booze, be a little healthier, and, and really, I think that’s, that’s the lane it should stay in.

[00:16:54] It’s also for

[00:16:55]Bryan Fields: the

[00:16:55]Kellan Finney: individual who’s looking to consume cannabis and not smoke. [00:17:00] You know what I mean? Like there’s a, the healthiest way to probably ingest something is through the stomach, you know what I mean?

[00:17:05]Bryan Fields: Not through the

[00:17:05]Luke Anderson: lump. Yes. And beverages, even though we’re a little bit slower on onset, the fact that you can absorb some of it sublingually before it even gets to the stomach, um, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s healthier for people who are told by their doctors, like, you have to stop drinking alcohol because it’s bad for you.

[00:17:23] And it’s the exact same behavior. So, you know, a 70 year old in Florida can take it on the golf course and just pop it in the cup holder. It’s, it’s really great for them. But for somebody who is trying to wean themselves off inhalable, uh, and maybe the edible like waiting time just makes it a little more difficult for them to reliably predict how high they get.

[00:17:46] Um, can is a, a very buildable buzz and. , whether it’s a two milligram or a five milligram, you can kind of ladder up, um, pretty effectively. And then, you know, we, we launched a subbrand that does 20 to a hundred milligram [00:18:00] strength products, um, called Thunder and lightning. So you got a, a little lightning in a bottle right here, which is a, a yerba and ginger and lemon shot that has a hundred milligrams of thc.

[00:18:13] And so we’re even trying to offer things under the broad. Corporate umbrella of can that meet those consumers where they’re at, just so that, you know, we can not be missing an entire customer segment. But it’s important to know that we wouldn’t put can on the front of this. We, we don’t even necessarily have the CAN logo on this, um, because we want that logo to stand for.

[00:18:40] We’re never gonna get you too high by accident. This is a. Newer to cannabis experience for, for anybody, whether it’s your mom or your grandma or you know, if, if it’s your cousin who judges you for being a stoner. That’s what we want the canned logo to, to be like a, a safe place [00:19:00] for anybody who’s anti-cannabis to have a positive experience.

[00:19:04]Bryan Fields: I think you’ve guys have done an incredible job doing that, especially building the brand because exactly like you’re saying, if, if the dispensary models where the products are being sold, it’s so challenging to compete on those, especially because beverages are, are a smaller portion of kind of the retail outlet and building that brand has to be layered with opportunities and challenges.

[00:19:19] Exactly like you’re saying, every market is different. Not everyone affords those opportunities and beverages is not really the most popular item. So when you’re moving and trying to establish new interests in markets, like what are the creative ways your team’s bringing to the branding?

[00:19:34]Luke Anderson: did the last part of the question again. The what are the ways in which you’re doing creative branding in new markets? New markets like geography or like, like for

[00:19:44]Bryan Fields: example, like in New York, you were saying how with the capital markets being down, you’re still being interested in New York, but you have to be more creative with how you go about entering those markets and how to position that brand loyalty.

[00:19:53] Because can is one of, to me, is one of the, the most recognizable national brands. And I think that’s saying to me, given the fact that how [00:20:00] challenging it is A, to do national brands, but b, it’s a beverage, right? It’s not an edible brand. It’s not a wild, it’s not a. Which would be, let’s say, more popular amongst cannabis consumers.

[00:20:08] So you’re talking about a smaller demographic, but you’re able to establish national brand credibility, which is extremely challenging, but one that should be praised

[00:20:16]Luke Anderson: for. Well, we, we did it by starting hyper local to la and then for a while we were really an Instagram brand and we invested all of our creative firepower and doing really interesting and funny pieces of social content that you could just kind of consume and share.

[00:20:33] We tried to make everything just, you know, standalone as something that felt like it was coming from a friend rather than a brand. I think we’re all tired of brands trying to sell us stuff and, and for a very long time, Ken was unilaterally focused on Instagram and building up a community of people who were like-minded with.

[00:20:52] Funny and engaging pieces of content about like hating alcohol, being afraid of getting too high and, and existing in social spaces in that [00:21:00] weird, in between two substances universe. But then over the last couple of years, we’ve deepened our partnership with a production company called London Alley in Los Angeles.

[00:21:10] And London Alley is one of the most famous music video companies in the world. They did. Thank you. Next for Ariana Grande, they did Industry Baby for Lil Nas X, um, and, and continue to do really incredible high production pieces of commercial content for brands like Pepsi. Um, We’re lucky enough to have them invest in us really early on when we were on the ground in LA and just sampling and meeting people.

[00:21:37] And uh, as of this year, we have formed such a deep partnership that we actually merged our media business with their, um, production business. And now Cann has the ability to deliver on really cool, culturally relevant storytelling moments by integrating. With the product into a music video [00:22:00] or into a, an other brand’s, uh, you know, commercial, the same way that you would watch a movie and you would see someone pull open a drawer and there’s a Smirnoff bottle.

[00:22:11] Or if you’re, you know, doing a, a, a commercial for one brand, you may see somebody wearing an item of clothing from another brand. Or you know, if it’s not a beverage commercial, maybe someone’s drinking a Coke. I think, um, you’re gonna see Cann pop-up Globally in ways that are hard to avoid this year. Probably more often than it has in in previous years, but in more organic and strategic ways while we invest a lot of our resources and money and, and human capital in, on the ground relationship building in New York specifically, so that that global.

[00:22:49] Brand awareness that we’ve invested a lot of, of storytelling firepower in translates into local customer loyalty. Um, and I mean, customers is in dispensaries, in [00:23:00] stores, and also consumers as in, you know, people sitting at their apartment and just wanting to tip on one while watching a movie.

[00:23:07]Bryan Fields: Yeah, it’s so critical because one of the challenges your team faces is that not people are just not familiar with beverages.

[00:23:12] So knowing that that even exists is starting from square one, which is seeing the placement and then building on that habit that this is a brand to trust. This is the establishment of, and this is the low dose credence that comes with it to, to give people that trust when they’re trying the products for the first time.

[00:23:26] It’s

[00:23:26]Kellan Finney: also huge that you guys are like, uh, curbing a lot of the social stigma, right? Like all this branding stuff we’ve been talking about really helps to kind of curb that like,

[00:23:36]Bryan Fields: Devil lettuce, kind

[00:23:38]Kellan Finney: of that whole entire like prohibition error thought process around cannabis. Has that been like a core value or is it like work the other

[00:23:47]Bryan Fields: way around?

[00:23:49]Luke Anderson: It’s almost as important to us as like driving our own brands. Adoption is, mm-hmm. helping move the industry and the social conversation forward. I mean, Jake and I are both [00:24:00] queer and I think we all saw what happened with gay marriage is it was like 20 years ago. It was really taboo. Um, you know, I even got thrown out of a, a bar one time for like calling somebody a, a gay slur in my like heavy alcohol drinking days in my early twenties.

[00:24:15] And it’s ironic to look back on that and see that like I’m married to a man now and I also was really anti weed at that point. And I was like, you know, looking at my cousins who smoked weed and calling them stoners behind their back like that, this sort of closeness and familiarity that you have with a social issue.

[00:24:35] And I do think that cannabis adoption is a social issue, um, and a political issue the same way that gay marriage or reproductive rights are. The, the more thoughtfully you can engage with it. But there are just so many people, like, I think, you know, uh, by some stats, like 80% plus of American adults, like, don’t have a touchpoint with cannabis in a given year.

[00:24:59][00:25:00] And, and so they’re much more likely to have an uninformed opinion about it or think that C b D is like low strength weed. Um, and, and so we’re fighting to try and clarify. A, that cannabis is just as legitimate as alcohol, if not more. And B, low doses of cannabis should be broadly accessible to everybody because they are not dangerous.

[00:25:26] And if people substituted prescription medication or alcohol, With a low-dose cannabis product, we’d probably all be a lot happier and healthier, like just, you know, as a society. And so we understand that it’s really expensive to take on this entire burden of, you know, marketing for the beverage category.

[00:25:45] But we see this as like a, we want to be a friend to everybody in the industry because if we get more people. Pro cannabis period and pro cannabis for the right reasons. With the right social justice policies related to expungement and you know, fair access [00:26:00] to capital for black and brown cannabis entrepreneurs and for legacy operators to have legitimacy in the eyes of corporate cannabis.

[00:26:08] Then everybody wins. ,

[00:26:11]Bryan Fields: how many canned beverages should one expect to consume? Uh, I know with drinking, right, you were saying 10 plus drinks. What would you say from an estimate standpoint? So to give you an example, I had five or six, I think on New Year’s, and I was starting to feel good, and then I started to hesitate.

[00:26:23] Is this one of those curves where it kind of, uh, accelerates up like that or it kind of plateaus? So Luke, what’s your thought process on, on how many to consume if you’re, uh, let’s say a novice cannabis user and just looking to see where

[00:26:34]Luke Anderson: those limits are.

[00:26:38] Ah, man, it’s, um, I never wanna recommend that somebody consume too much because I don’t wanna be responsible for somebody bad cancer. Sure. That’s right. I know I set you for a tough one, but I have, I have had. 10 high boys. Like I I’ve, I’ve had 50 milligrams of THC from a beverage during a dry [00:27:00] January two years ago.

[00:27:01] And I was not outta control, I was glued to my couch and I was eating Cheetos. But, um, I think when I talk to somebody who’s a novice cannabis user, I say, start with one and check in with yourself after 30 minutes. , which is sort of how I think a responsible alcohol drinker thinks about like going to a bar and you know, whether it’s like one drink an hour or one drink every 30 minutes over the course of three or four hours somewhere, you know, with alcohol you have this language of I’m.

[00:27:34] Tipsy I’m, or no, I’m buzzed. You started sober. Then you go, I’m Buzz. Then you go, I’m tipsy. Then you go, I’m drunk. Then you’re ground out and blacked out. But like this, this kind like gradient of alcohol intoxication. We know how to talk about that. We do not know how to talk about that with cannabis yet.

[00:27:56] It’s like you’re high or you’re not. And for me, [00:28:00] I, I described like one can. as if you’re buzzed and like two cans as if you’re tipsy, and then three cans as if you’re drunk. And you probably want to be careful before having cans four, five, and six. Um, because you could be at risk of being, you know, comatose and not wanting to socialize.

[00:28:21] But it’s a lot better than being blackout and like driving a car into a. Yeah, a hundred

[00:28:26]Bryan Fields: percent. I think that’s a type of scale where I think people are, are gonna need to figure out on their own and that’s gonna take more experience, more opportunities with it. And one of the things that I’m concerned about, and I’m wondering what your perspective is, is the mixing of canned beverages and then alcohol, because obviously people are, are, are interested in, in kind of one or the other.

[00:28:44] Do you see that as a problem solution? How do you see that going forward?

[00:28:48]Luke Anderson: We actually did a marketing campaign in partnership with Kate Hudson’s vodka company, uh, over a year ago, where we just straight up encouraged people to do what she was doing, and she was [00:29:00] like, I’m gonna just pour a shot of vodka in my cranberry sage can, and call it like a, you know, cute little holiday cocktail.

[00:29:09] I mean, we can’t officially endorse that as a brand. Like there’s some legal risk with encouraging people to mix cannabis and alcohol, but what I will say, People everywhere, canned drinkers everywhere report that they are moderating their alcohol consumption successfully because of can, like I’m drinking half as much as I used to, and some of them are replacing alcohol with can for entire days or weeks or months at a time.

[00:29:35] But most people are actually alternating their beverages. Like I’m having a cocktail and then, oh, I’m gonna take a break from the the booze and I’m gonna have a can instead. And it kind of mellows me out and it prevents me from getting drunker than I want to get. And I have not talked to anybody who had a like debilitating cross fade from can and booze.

[00:29:58] And I think it’s because this sort of [00:30:00] idea of being cross fade. That’s like if you smoke an entire joint and you’re drinking, you know, shots. Um, but a joint is like 50 cans and so I think, uh, the risk is just a hell of a lot lower. Yeah.

[00:30:13]Bryan Fields: And most users, I think

[00:30:14]Kellan Finney: like that go to a party. Most cannabis users that is like, they go to a party, they’ll have a couple drinks and they’ll go out back and maybe take a couple rips off a joint with some friends.

[00:30:23] You know what I mean? So they’re already kind of go hand in hand when you’re socializing anyways.

[00:30:29]Luke Anderson: Yeah. Yeah. Partying in general is a risk. Even, even sober people at parties are, are at risk. Um, it, it’s, it’s chaos out there. Do you think one of the biggest

[00:30:40]Bryan Fields: challenges the cannabis industry has with beverages is that they’re not able to tell the difference that the alcohol consumer is not kind of built into the total addressable market of what the

[00:30:48]Luke Anderson: potential could be?

[00:30:51] Yes. I, I think that’s a fundamental issue. Um, cannabis industry pundits often think about the universe as people who are [00:31:00] buying cannabis from dispensaries today. And if you’re looking at the data, yeah, 50% of the drinks that are being sold on a dollars basis, there are a hundred milligram THC shots. I think it’s because we’re really early and the people who are walking the dispensary floor are much more likely to need a hundred milligrams of THC at an approachable price point.

[00:31:21] But we have always looked at the universe as just like, People on the earth and, and we’re trying to figure out, you know, if you stop 10 people on the street in New York City, and you said like, do you want to drink less booze? 8 outta 10 would say yes. And if you stopped the 10, same 10 people on the street, or you asked them a follow-up question and said, are you a cannabis user?

[00:31:45] More than 50% of them would say no. And um, and that I think is where the cannabis industry is really missing. The point is, how do we figure out how to educate those people and get them to be interested in cannabis? Cause I tell you what, [00:32:00] we would not have the capital markets in the place that they were if.

[00:32:04] The big cannabis players really made outsize investments in products like Cannes that were helpful to recruit people into the cannabis world away from the alcohol world. I

[00:32:17]Bryan Fields: think that’s so perfectly well said. And the example that I’ve given is that when you go to a backyard barbecue, everyone usually brings a like a six pack of beer.

[00:32:23] And those people there that are drinking beers, maybe eight out of the 10, 10 of them, don’t consume cannabis by smoking. But if you have a cannabis beverage, it might enlighten them to opportunities because maybe they are interested in the product, but maybe they’re anti-smoking. And I think those people are just not considered in those groups.

[00:32:37] And I think. A lot of people on the internet, mainly on Twitter, get their, their hands up in arms about cannabis beverages, because I think for that same fact that they’re not able to think about the, the landscape being the total earth Exactly like you said. So slightly switching gears, what is one product that you, our team will

[00:32:55]Luke Anderson: never build?

[00:32:58] Ooh. Um. [00:33:00] Man. I mean, if you asked me a year ago, I would say we would never make a cannabis beverage above five milligrams of T hc. But we’ve started making them under different brand name. So I think that that’s a boring answer, is like we would never slap the can brand on anything that is more than five milligrams of thc, because accidentally having 10 to 100 milligrams of THC as a first timer, that’s enough to make you badmouth cannabis broadly for the rest of your life.

[00:33:27] And so we care a lot about that. Um, I think, uh, a product that we would never make is one. Artificial. Uh, I, I come from a natural grocery background. I, I care a lot about ingredient integrity and heritage. We pick our lemons from a farm in Sy because they taste better there. We pick our lavender from, uh, a Swiss German flavor house because they care more about mouth feel and making things taste less like bath products and more [00:34:00] like herbs.

[00:34:01] Um, and I think, you know, even our sweetener, like we use agave nectar from Mexico because it’s just like rich and uncommon in beverage and it creates this very unique taste profile that feels a little bit sweeter than it is per calorie to me at least. Um, and I think we are moving past a world in which it’s okay to have like electric blue and bright orange colored drinks because.

[00:34:29] we care about what we’re putting in our bodies. So, uh, I think a product type that we would never make is, is, um, you know, chemically fortified, artificial heavy products,

[00:34:41]Bryan Fields: any fears that the branding that you’ve built with, with can, doesn’t apply to this new product. Where for someone like myself who trusts the can brand, might not be choosing this other product because I don’t know the, the branding behind it.

[00:34:52] Any, any fears

[00:34:52]Luke Anderson: there? Yeah, I mean, like this, this a hundred milligram drink here. , why would I ever want to, you [00:35:00] know, buy something with this logo on it if I’ve never seen it before? Um, yeah, it’s, that is a fear. But with the same sort of ideology that we started canne, we want to do as much like hyper-focused experimentation and see how traction is just on the product before we really light any money on fire in trying to invest in the brand and the storytelling.

[00:35:24] and early indications from this stuff. Is that enough? People are just seeing it on the shelf and they’re like, oh, this looks cool. And then, Repurchasing it because it tastes good. That I think we will start investing in that storytelling and having that brand take on a life of its own someday. Um, someday soon, hopefully.

[00:35:42] Uh, but, but yeah, it’s a, it’s a very legitimate fear. Like we haven’t built any brand other than Cannes, and so who are we to put that out there and, and hope that it does well? Um, jury’s still out, but signs point to, um, It was probably a good bet. Uh, these products, you make more [00:36:00] profit dollars off of them.

[00:36:01] The customer is more likely to be interested. To them, it’s not as hard of a sell, and as long as we differentiate in our value prop and, and here it’s like we’re using really natural ingredients and it has caffeine in it. I love caffeine and THC together. to me. If even in advance of a brand being resonant with a consumer, people will buy something if it delivers on what they’re looking for and being stoned and high energy, like that’s a use case that not very many people are doing super well.

[00:36:29] So at least we’re carving out a niche there and, and hopefully we’ll be able to expand on that storytelling for the Thunder and lightning brands this year. Do you

[00:36:36]Bryan Fields: guys notice a difference,

[00:36:37]Kellan Finney: like in taste geographically speaking, in terms of like products that move better

[00:36:41]Bryan Fields: in different

[00:36:42]Luke Anderson: region? Yeah, in LA and New York, our more editorial flavors do super well.

[00:36:48] Um, like in LA we had this cloudy apple rhubarb, no added sugar. 10 milli, or sorry, 10, uh, calorie drink that was like a top top seller for two [00:37:00] months before we ran out. And when we offered a similar product in Illinois and Massachusetts, it kind of sat on the shelf. Um, I think LA and new. in particular, especially when we’re like looking at the Hollywood demographic or the the Healthy Hedonist customer segment in New York.

[00:37:18] The people go into Soul Cycle but are still like going out clubbing. They care more about sugar content and calories than I think your, you know, random family in the Midwest. Um, and. It’s very difficult to build a global brand and have so many different skews with different nutritional and flavor value props existing in, in separate spaces.

[00:37:42]Bryan Fields: Cannabis lounges a an asset for the fight forward of adopting cannabis beverages.

[00:37:49]Luke Anderson: Huge asset. I just wish there were more of them that were just like edible and beverage focused. Cuz I think that there is some there. There is a lingering stigma around [00:38:00] rooms filled with smoke and the cannabis smell. And I think edibles and beverages are really powerful because you don’t necessarily have to deal with that.

[00:38:08] But it’s very hard to make, uh, you know, an on-premise lounge economically viable as a business without including the high volume flower category. Um, But I think that we’ll, we’ll start to see more pop up. Like if you’re seeing non-alcoholic booze shops pop up, eventually you’ll see like micro-dose only cannabis lounges that are like more for sober ish people than for cannabis people.

[00:38:38] And I think those are going to be really interesting social spaces. My, my business partner Jake, he is dreamed about what a, uh, non. Bar club that allows you to microdose cannabis and psychedelics only could be like, and I think, you know, we’re not that far off from seeing those pop up in places like Oregon and [00:39:00] Colorado.

[00:39:00] Um, I, I think, you know, Amsterdam was a really interesting V 1.0 social experiment, but it was so focused on like tripping balls and like, you know, smoking or eating a space cake that we didn’t really get to see what the moderation version of that looked like. But I think we’re, um, you. five years away at AT, at most.

[00:39:19] Yeah, potentially.

[00:39:19]Bryan Fields: And I think it also helps with the adoption, right? If you can get a cannabis beverage in a bar and if it’s on tap. I mean, it just helps with people seeing it and recognizing that it is part of normalization of the product. Yeah, exactly. What is the most misunderstood, most misunderstood thing about your company?

[00:39:40]Luke Anderson: Oh, I mean, people say that we’re like cocky and that we’re like, you know, full of ourselves and we’re like, we’re just trying to survive. Like I, I mean, most beverages like. They really struggled to get off the ground. There have been huge companies that have invested hundreds of millions, if [00:40:00] not billions of dollars in trying to do microdose, THC beverage at scale and have really struggled.

[00:40:06] And we’re an independent, like, we’re just like two gay dudes in LA that like tried to make a we so to work and it’s working like, be nice to us . Um, I, I think like, um, You have to pound your chest really hard and try to get the word out there about something when it doesn’t exist. Otherwise, it doesn’t exist, period.

[00:40:29] And, and we believe that everyone stands to gain so much when it exists that we’re a little bit louder and a little bit more, um, Hard to miss when it comes to our marketing and some of the statements that we make. But it’s in service of the industry’s evolution. It’s in service of like a public health and safety issue when it comes to alcohol and the harms that it does on, you know, families everywhere.

[00:40:52] Um, and so I think like if you just take a glimpse at Canon, you have your own biases about cannabis, you might think. [00:41:00] Well, you know, that company’s annoying. But, um, you know, we’re, we’re just, um, we’re just, uh, a couple of dudes who tried to make a startup work and continuing to try to make a startup work.

[00:41:11] And so I think I’d encourage people to just peel back the layers of the brand and see how much heart and soul it has. Like, we care a lot about marginalized communities because we know what it’s like to be queer in business and be shut out of rooms or told we’re not allowed to talk about our partners.

[00:41:26] And, you know, we’ve been called. F bombs behind our backs, um, if we appear too feminine in a pitch meeting. And, and that kind of stuff sucks, but we’re also still two white dudes who understand just how much privilege being a white dude in cannabis has afforded us. And we’re really thoughtful and intentional about how we build our brand around intersectional, marginalized communities, specifically the ones that have been armed by the war on drugs.

[00:41:53] And so I, I really feel. people sometimes misunderstand can as [00:42:00] like, it’s a, it’s a Gwyneth Paltro weed seltzer for rich moms in Beverly Hills, but, and yes, like they do like our product and Gwyneth is an investor, but I think, um, our product is adored by a lot of people who struggle with like pill addiction and alcohol.

[00:42:17] And at every income level of every demographic of every age of every. Gender identity and sexual orientation and um, I think there’s something really special about that. What is

[00:42:30]Bryan Fields: well said. Yeah. Really well said. Uh, what is one concept you learned operating in the cannabis industry that would shock or surprise others?

[00:42:39]Luke Anderson: sometimes you don’t get paid . Like, it’s like, uh, in, in business you expect that if you do something that people give you dollars for it. But in cannabis, the norm is like maybe . And so, you know, we’ve had people run off with a hundred thousand dollars and never come back like we’ve had, um, you know, dispensaries shut down and, and just like have to write off a lot of [00:43:00] bad.

[00:43:01] Um, we have made really tough decisions to weather storms and trust that partners who haven’t paid us in a year will eventually pay us. And I think there’s something very, very cool about that when, um, when we link arms to somebody who’s in a financially tough position and say, we’ll wait for you. Like, we’ll, we, we believe in you.

[00:43:21] Um, but it makes it really hard to do business in cannabis because the, the trust factor just isn’t there. And. , a lot of professionals in food science and manufacturing and facility management and distribution in beverage, period, they’re afraid to come to cannabis because it’s just not a safe place to put your career yet.

[00:43:40] And so you end up with a bunch of really unsophisticated operators who just don’t know how to do basic things that in consumer packaged goods are just. Like, you know, clockwork and it creates a really structurally inefficient environment. And I think we’re in one of those moments right now where that bubble has burst yet another time.

[00:43:59] Um, [00:44:00] but I think, you know, we should still look at that with a hopeful lens. Like when the tech bubble 1.0 or 2.0 burst, it’s not that the internet wasn’t valuable, it’s that we didn’t need like a million geocity style websites. Um, and MySpace like it, it’s about. Figuring out like what people actually want to pay for and what people are actually using and enjoying.

[00:44:22] And, and so I, I’m still incredibly long on the near term of cannabis. I think we’re gonna see a really rapid turnaround in the next three to five years and, and the strong, um, brands that, that are delivering on something for consumers will survive it.

[00:44:38]Bryan Fields: Are there any assets, efforts or strategies you wish

[00:44:42]Luke Anderson: people paid more attention?

[00:44:47] I think, um, Jake and I were taught how to do a lot of business analytics at Banyon Company, and we’re really grateful for that education because they focus so much on [00:45:00] consumer loyalty and whether or not somebody says, Six out of 10 or eight out 10 or nine outta 10, even those mean three completely different things.

[00:45:12] If you’re answering a question like zero to 10, how likely would you be to recommend this product to somebody else? And I wish that people, before they put their products into the market or develop their dispensary concepts or whatever ancillary services they were providing, they applied that traditional.

[00:45:31] it’s only worth doing something if people are going nuts for it, like nine and 10 out of 10. Um, that’s, that’s what Bain classifies as a promoter. Um, if you say seven or eight, you’re technically neutral, um, or, or kind of passive. And then if you say six or below, you’re actually actively destroying that brand’s equity because when you talk about it, even if it’s like vaguely not positive, it turns people off.

[00:45:59] We should only really [00:46:00] have products out there in the world that like, wow, they’re target customer. And I think there’s a lot of cannabis products out there that are just kind of like doing nothing for nobody. Um, and, and I don’t know, we, we don’t need another, uh, cheap flower brand. I don’t think we need another, um, like, you know, a hundred milligram chocolate bar.

[00:46:20] I think, I think we need differentiated and unique products that people say, I’m nuts for this, for this. , it’s the future roadmap. Yeah. For can. Yeah. Um, , I think we are going to be doing, um, I, I think we’ll actually do a blockbuster edible in the next, like three to five years. Um, I think it, it would take partnering with a really like-minded edible manufacturer who finds value in the CAN brand.

[00:46:54] Um, one of our investors is like, you should, you should really do candy with two Ns [00:47:00] and edit that part. End it. Um, and, and I think, um, you know, we, but more importantly, perhaps we think about ourselves as a consumer brand and not necessarily a cannabis brand. I think we might do a low A B V alcoholic Seltzer at some point with really interesting flavors.

[00:47:23] That just is, uh, getting you a little less drunk. Um, I think there’s a market for that. I think. I think this whole like healthy, but also like fun, consumer can find a delight in moderation on a lot of substances. . And so I think as you see can evolve, you’ll see us evolve equal parts, cannabis and non-cannabis.

[00:47:45] And within cannabis, yeah, the beverage and the Cann brand will always be the hero, but I think you’ll start to see us transition into more low dose. Um, Alternative categories as, uh, the opportunities

[00:47:57]Bryan Fields: arise. I will say,

[00:47:59]Kellan Finney: your guys'[00:48:00] beverages are just awesome without anything added into ’em from a flavor perspective, you know what I mean?

[00:48:03] So they, they do a good job. So I like that thought

[00:48:06]Bryan Fields: process

[00:48:07]Luke Anderson: plain to their . We handpicked the ingredients very carefully. It sounds like it. Jake and I got in like, you know, multiple friendship ending fights over six or seven drops of lavender or like, should be used honey. Do or cantaloupe for this? Like did you bring in a third

[00:48:23]Bryan Fields: party to to be the

[00:48:24]Luke Anderson: moderator?

[00:48:26] Yeah, we, we had a food scientist partner that we worked really, really closely with for a few years, and she really tragically died this last year. Um, but, um, we, you know, we had an amazing balance in the room with a lot of industry experience and I think, um, we’ve learned and, and to any co-founder Buk, you always want to have like that third person in the room.

[00:48:53] Check you on your bullshit and your relationship dynamics. Am I allowed to swear on this? Yeah. can do whatever you want. [00:49:00] The the, uh, um, yeah, so, so like I love thinking about decision making forums and iPods and, and if you can make a three circle Venn diagram of people with different perspectives and then find something that all three of them, like Chance Theara, it’s.

[00:49:19] That’s why

[00:49:19]Bryan Fields: I asked who that third person was, cuz I’m sure you both felt very confident about that side, but someone had to be that third party to say moderat and say, I think we’re gonna do six and a half drops. Lavender .

[00:49:29]Luke Anderson: Yeah. Well, well I mean, even when it came to like running our Instagram in the early days, like Jake and I had a meeting with Eliza Robson who was an incredible designer and content strategist.

[00:49:39] Um, and we just met once a week. Argued about every Instagram posted if it was a consumer product, and we tried to like, meet in the middle. And, you know, if a Gen Z woman and, you know, uh, more cannabis familiar millennial dude, and then like, uh, non-cannabis millennial dude all [00:50:00] found common ground, um, then the, the content performed well.

[00:50:05] So I think that sort of ideology was really, um, a, a powerful. , uh, for, for us to deploy in all aspects of business.

[00:50:13]Bryan Fields: I believe it. When you started your journey in the cannabis space, what did you get? Right, and most importantly, what

[00:50:18]Luke Anderson: did you get wrong? I think Jake got the product right from a dosing perspective in, in terms of like how do we differentiate from what’s on the market and, and get like real traction.

[00:50:31] Um, I think what we got wrong was the timing. Uh, I think we thought federal legalization would’ve happened this year. Uh, I, I thought it was like utterly non-controversial and that Biden could probably use a win. Um, but if we can’t even get, say, banking passed, then we’re in a whole lot of trouble for a few more years.

[00:50:51] So I think, um, you know, timing of capital raises, timing of, uh, penetrating certain markets. I think I would [00:51:00] like to go and redo some of those decisions, but, um, you know, you make a million mistakes when starting a company, and I think Uber and Airbnb got a lot wrong, but they, they got more right than they did wrong.

[00:51:11] And I hope that we can say the same thing in 10 years. Before we

[00:51:15]Bryan Fields: do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway

[00:51:19]Luke Anderson: or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would.

[00:51:24] oh my God. Only start a company, especially only start a company in cannabis if you are willing to give up your entire life for it. It is. It is not something that I was prepared for the, you know, my family looks a lot different now. My friends look a lot different now. My day-to-day. What I have to do in order to survive is not at all what I would’ve expected.

[00:51:55] Um, and so I, I would, I would second guess, [00:52:00] uh, wow, this would be cool type of decision. And I would only do it if you’re like, I could not live with myself if, if, um, if I didn’t devote my life to this. All right. Prediction. Luke, I’ve given you

[00:52:14]Bryan Fields: a magic wand. You can change anything. How do you unlock cannabis beverages so that they can reach

[00:52:20]Luke Anderson: their potential?

[00:52:23] So there’s this thing called like over-the-counter drugs in C V s, and there’s stuff that you have to go wait in line and talk to a pharmacist to get. . A lot of the times, the stronger stuff is in the back and the weaker stuff is in the front. In alcohol, there’s beer and wine only establishments, and there are full bars.

[00:52:45] Cannabis needs to have a split where the lower dosage products that are not as dangerous are a lot more broadly accessible and unfortunately, The first wave of that sort of split was [00:53:00] CBD versus THC But that’s like saying LaCroix and White Claw are like, you know, two sides of the same coin. Like one has booze, one does not, and, and so it’s not about like the absence or presence of THC that makes something safe.

[00:53:16] It’s the potency. So I think potency based regulation and allowing for, you know, liquor stores, on-premise, consumption, places convenience, grocery, like what we’re seeing with the Delta-9 stuff in Minnesota, Texas, New York, like. I think that should be just like a sweeping national regulation. And it shouldn’t be limited to derive from hemp.

[00:53:39] It should be based on like the scientific architecture of the product. And if we can get people on board with low dose cannabis being everywhere, there won’t be so much stigma around like marijuana versus industrial hemp. Um, you know, cannabis is cannabis, THC ist, hc. Just call paid is paid and regulate it based on how strong it’s [00:54:00] Kelly.

[00:54:01]Bryan Fields: Uh, I completely

[00:54:02]Kellan Finney: agree with Luke. Um, I think, I mean, like right now you can’t go buy 99% ethanol. We can buy 99%, uh, T H C A in a dispensary. Um, but I do think that

[00:54:13]Bryan Fields: the, uh,

[00:54:17]Kellan Finney: widespread adoption of cannabis beverages, like placing him next to alcohol in like your standard grocery store, I think is probably the.

[00:54:26] um, easiest thing to change, uh, culturally at least.

[00:54:31]Bryan Fields: What do you think, Brian? I think economies of scale are a real thing, and I think as inter helps, interstate commerce comes online and the price is able to come down because we’re able to put all the manufacturing in one central location. I think that’ll allow for other consumers who may be interested, but maybe more price conscious.

[00:54:46] To drive these products. And I think the first step is the ability to being direct to consumer. And I think what your team’s doing is an incredible thing. And I think, you know, just putting the, literally, like you said, the cannabis beverage on your back and pushing forward, I, I, I think is really important because I, I [00:55:00] think the beverage category is, is in the earliest stages for the cannabis industry and only expected to absolutely skyrocket.

[00:55:05] Seems continue. So Luke, for our listeners, they wanna get in touch, they wanna buy canned beverages. Where can they find.

[00:55:14]Luke Anderson: ken.com with two Ns.

[00:55:17]Bryan Fields: We’ll link it up in the show. Thanks for taking the time. This was fun.

[00:55:20]Luke Anderson: Thank you.

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

Metrc is contracted by state regulators and committed to a secure and credible regulatory environment. At the center of the regulatory apex, Metrc’s role is critical for cannabis operators from seed to sale.

This week on The Dime, we host Michael Johnson, CEO of Metrc, to discuss:  

• Uptime vs. functional time
• API Changes, Metrc Connect
• Implementing regulatory changes across 23 states

About Metrc:
Metrc is the most trusted and experienced provider of cannabis regulatory systems in the United States. Our solution combines advanced software, radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology, a dedicated customer- support team, and a secure database to track and trace cannabis from growth, harvest, and processing to testing, transport, and sale.

Governments contracting with Metrc receive an off-the-shelf software-as-a-service (SaaS) system configured specifically to their needs. Our cloud-based tracking software and securely encoded RFID-enabled tags give regulators full supply-chain visibility. Metrc also provides data management, reporting services, third-party integrator support, cloud hosting, technical updates, along with training and support for users in government and industry. 

About Michael Johnson:
Focused operational finance leader with expertise in harvesting growth potential and facilitating process efficiencies at Vista Equity Partners, Insight Venture Partners, TT Capital Partners, NovaQuest and FristCressey portfolio companies. Proven performance in building highly effective teams, integrating acquisitions and rebuilding enterprise-wide processes to harmonize customer experience and profitability.

#cannabisindustry #cannabisinider #metrc

Guest Links 

https://www.metrc.com/
https://twitter.com/official_metrc?lang=en
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-johnson-41458115/

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[00:00:00] What’s

[00:00:03]Bryan Fields: up guys? Welcome back to an episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields and with me as always, as Kell Finny. And this week we got a very special guest, Michael Johnson, c e o of metrics. Michael, thanks for taking time.

[00:00:12]Michael Johnson: How you doing today? Appreciate the time. Doing well. Thank you guys for, uh, for having me on.

[00:00:17]Bryan Fields: Excited to talk to you today, Kellen. How are you

[00:00:19]Kellan Finney: doing? I’m doing really well. Really excited to talk to Michael. Really excited to talk about metric and uh, really excited to try to hold the West

[00:00:26]Michael Johnson: Coast down over

[00:00:26]Bryan Fields: here. Yeah, I think that’s right. So Michael, just for the record, your location

[00:00:31]Michael Johnson: please. Uh, we are in Lakeland, Florida, which is, uh, a very kind of a place where all the Florida man stories come from, uh, in between Tampa and Orlando.

[00:00:40] it’s kind of where the business is founded and, and, um, where our founder’s from and sat down roots here, uh, one way, shape, or form 30 years ago. I

[00:00:49]Bryan Fields: love it. So let the record state another East coaster. K. So Michael, for our listeners that aren’t familiar, right? You, can you give it a little background about yourself?

[00:00:55]Michael Johnson: Yeah, I, uh, so I’ve been a part of metric here for almost two [00:01:00] years. Um, before that I advised Metric a little bit. Uh, I grew up mostly on the finance side. Of, of the technology world, um, working for a variety of software companies and trying to help folks, um, help businesses grow rapid growth businesses, businesses that need to kind of be rethought a little bit.

[00:01:17] Um, and was very fortunate to come across from the folks here at Metric. Um, kind of, kind of had a, an interesting introduction. Got to know them a little bit better, got to see kind of where we’re at and um, and, and hopefully. , uh, hopefully we’ll continue to see us make a, a, a strong transition from being sort of this government focused black box into something that, um, we think is a little bit more, uh, representative of the entire legal ecosystem in, in trying to support, uh, the growth of cannabis and the support of cannabis, uh, to, in a, in a way that protects public health and, um, maintains, uh, the level of compliance and sophistication necessary for a really, really complex supply chain.

[00:01:56] E. It

[00:01:57]Bryan Fields: certainly is. For our listeners that may be just [00:02:00] unfamiliar with metric, can you give a high level overview of like the, the role metric plays in

[00:02:04]Michael Johnson: cannabis? Absolutely Metric is currently the system of record for 23, uh, states and jurisdictions. So we’re in Washington, DC and Guam in addition to 21 states.

[00:02:15] Uh, everything that happens in the cannabis supply chain, what we refer to as, uh, from seed to sale uses what we refer to as the track and trace system. Um, and that allows, uh, state regulators and folks that participate in the ecosystem. To have, uh, really strong visibility into the data, uh, and into all of the events that happen in a cannabis lifecycle from seed or more, more commonly from clone all the way to retail sale and kind of everything along the way.

[00:02:44]Bryan Fields: It’s beautiful. So just to give more context, it is a software program, correct.

[00:02:49]Michael Johnson: It is, we are a software company. Uh, we do facilitate, uh, the identification of both plants and packages, uh, using a globally unique 16 character identifier that does [00:03:00] have, uh, hex ID encryption functionality in it. Uh, we’re frequently associated with the RFID chip that is within our, uh, our identifiers.

[00:03:09] Uh, we, we do use RFID because it is. the Absolute most efficient and effective, uh, kind of element for identification, especially for passive identification and data collection in the supply chain. There’s a reason why, uh, last year Walmart mandated it across the board for everything in their supply chain.

[00:03:27] Uh, provides tremendous visibility, much more cost savings when, when used, um, and certainly a, a much more robust, uh, visibility. Uh, much more robust supply chain and greater visibility for both the, the, the growers, uh, the consumers and, and for, uh, regulatory agencies, and I guess really anybody in the supply chain.

[00:03:47] So metric

[00:03:48]Kellan Finney: is kind of the, uh, a cornerstone pillar. Cannabis as we know it today. Right. And can you wanna kind of walk us through why a track and trace system is paramount [00:04:00] to the cannabis industry even being adopted

[00:04:02]Michael Johnson: in the first place? . Yeah, absolutely. So there’s a lot of folks that, you know, are, are tried and true, like love cannabis, love everything about it, and there’s a lot of folks that aren’t.

[00:04:10] Right? Yeah. And, and that, that balance is, is a lot closer to a balance than, than they, uh, you know, than a 90 10 kind of a thing. And so for folks to get comfortable, uh, with the legal, legal market, um, especially given that it’s a fairly nascent industry, you know, not much more than 10 years. It’s really important to make sure that you’re, you’re kind of covering all the bases, uh, to help folks that maybe aren’t super comfortable with cannabis.

[00:04:34] And you’re seeing a lot of that right now in New York as they work through the, some of the issues and some of the challenges with getting their program off the ground. And then of course, you’ve got a lot of folks that have, that have that love cannabis and they wanna make sure it works out well, but they wanna protect public health.

[00:04:46] and they wanna protect the, um, you know, the consumer and they wanna make sure that we’re building something that’s lasting, that, um, is, is destigmatized and has value, uh, certainly much more beyond just kind of what you’re seeing in, in your own [00:05:00] neighborhood. Something that can be, um, that can, that can be.

[00:05:03] Have a lot more staying power and um, really become something that’s ubiquitous throughout the United States and, and increasingly in other parts of the world like Europe

[00:05:11]Bryan Fields: does. That puts your team in a kind of a unique spot, right? Your customers versus your clients are kind of relatively different than I think most of the industry thinks about, right?

[00:05:18] For example, your customers might be the state governments that are kind of, uh, working with metric where your clients are the users of the, the operators. Can you kind of

[00:05:26]Michael Johnson: expand. . Yeah, it’s, it’s a really weird dynamic to be honest, and I’ve never been a part of anything like that. And, and I’ve, I’ve definitely met some folks that have similar experiences, but nothing quite like what we’ve got here in cannabis.

[00:05:37] And it seems like that’s, um, fairly consistent regardless of where you’re at in the cannabis ecosystem and what state you’re in. Cause that’s obviously very different too. Um, so our customers is, is the government and, uh, usually the. Now that’s been the focus of metric for, you know, a decade. Um, but the reality is that there’s 360,000 average active users in metric at any given, [00:06:00] uh, in any given month.

[00:06:01] And only about a thousand of those are regulators or, uh, folks that, that participate in the government. Sometimes on the tax side, uh, sometimes public health side. All, all different angles from the government. So the vast, vast, vast majority of the folks that are working inside of metric are license holders.

[00:06:17] They’re growers, they’re distributors, transporters, um, you know, they own dispensaries. And so our, um, even though they’re not our actual customer, uh, the. The viewpoint, uh, needs to be and is certainly transformed and metric that, that they are, that anybody in the ecosystem, anybody that touches metric, is a metric customer.

[00:06:36] Uh, and our, our objective is to make sure they have a delightful experience in metric. It is, it is a compliance tool. Um, so it’s a little bit tricky to make sure that folks that maybe aren’t a huge fan of, of being compliant or c compliance, uh, have a great experience. But that’s, that’s kinda what we aim to.

[00:06:53] We also have another customer segment, our third customer segment, which is in many ways just as important as the first two. And that’s [00:07:00] our, that’s our integration partners. And so folks at Integrating Tome are able to provide really strong value add solutions to the ecosystem, whether it’s from a point of sale perspective, an E R P perspective, uh, a lot of really great companies out there providing data, um, others solving problems.

[00:07:15] Uh, we have over 650 integrated relat. and that number keeps growing as people continue to build, uh, really great products to try and support the ecosystem. So you guys have a lot of, uh, cloud-based,

[00:07:27]Kellan Finney: uh, software solutions for the cannabis industry. And I was curious in those early days, like a decade ago, I mean like banks haven’t been the friendliest to cannabis operators.

[00:07:39] Did you guys, I know that your, your customers are state governments, but even though there’s not this federal oversight, do you guys, did you guys get some pushback from some of the, the larger data centers that you guys were contracting to store all this information in? And, and kind of talk us through those early days with, uh, during those conversations and how that all kind of came to.

[00:07:59]Michael Johnson: Yeah, it, it [00:08:00] predates me a bit, but, you know, a decade ago you didn’t see as much, um, a as, as much in a software space being, uh, put in the cloud in aws. There’s a lot of localized data centers. Um, we used one called Rackspace, which for a period of time was the largest. Uh, we’ve, we’ve actually migrated recently, uh, from Rackspace to our product, being in the Microsoft Azure Cloud, which is, um, which has been a game changer.

[00:08:24] um, performance is a very big deal for me. Uh, we brought in a new CTO a few months ago, uh, and we’re, we are hyper-focused at trying to improve the speed in the performance of the system. Uh, we expect that that spinning wheel to, to go away and, and get destroyed as, as quickly as possible. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a lot harder than, than it might seem.

[00:08:47] Um, metric is an enterprise level tool, which means it’s not gonna function the same way that Facebook or Instagram’s gonna function on your phone. Um, for folks that have spent time in Oracle or s a p, uh, typically [00:09:00] it’s you, you have a little bit of thinking that happens. They have, they have their own spinning wheels.

[00:09:04] Well, as, as we mentioned earlier, our customers, you know, 359,000 ish of them are, are users that operators and, and. Trying to run their businesses and not necessarily used to the same, uh, kind of an environment where an Oracle or an s a p would work. And so it’s incumbent upon us, even though we have so much data and are at that same level, uh, from a, from a, a, just a simple size perspective as some of those enterprise solutions.

[00:09:31] it’s critical for us to make sure that we are meeting our customers where they’re at, and we’re trying to find the very best experience that we can. So, a lot harder than you might think because of the, the level of, uh, data and the volume and the activity that occurs within metric. Um, that doesn’t mean that it’s impossible and certainly something we are on a mission to improve sooner than later.

[00:09:51]Bryan Fields: it’s gotta be an endless battle of trying to scale in front of the demand and the needs, especially as additional states come online and more users come online because your, your team essentially has to be trying to [00:10:00] operate in front of everyone else. And as the system continues to scale on the expectation scale, that’s an investment in resources and time and infrastructure that is not as easy as just connecting kind of dots on, on a

[00:10:09]Michael Johnson: page.

[00:10:10] Yeah, it’s, and it’s hard, it’s hard to think about, cause most of us aren’t in the software space. Most of us use, you know, an app or we use a program, or we’ll use, you’ll be in Google, you know, send an email and it just happens instantaneously. And, uh, the front end, the user experience is the part that. , we tend to have the, the most, uh, familiarity with, and the best relationship with Metric has spent the vast majority of its existence trying to harden what happens underneath.

[00:10:35] So the, the UI isn’t, uh, I wouldn’t describe it as the, as the easiest and most intuitive. Um, that’s something we’re, we’re very aware of and paying attention to. There’s been a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of money over many, many years trying to harden the backends so that we can handle different things.

[00:10:49] To give you some perspective, um, we have one integrator in one. Actually, we have, well, many integrators, but there’s, there’s one that I was just talking to yesterday, that’s why it’s top of mind. Um, that passes, uh, a hundred [00:11:00] and or 1.5 million calls, uh, every single day, which means that you’re of, uh, that’s connection into the system, passing information, uh, or pulling information out every single day.

[00:11:11] Um, so you can’t just build. a system, like a simple app that handles something like that. It’s very, very difficult once you to to start to scale something, especially once you get past a certain size because there’s just not that many, uh, software programs out there. And, and the ways something has to be built to be able to handle that level of volume and 360,000 people, you know, kind of plugging away at it every single day is, is very different than, um, maybe a typical app or something you might use on a day in and day out basis.

[00:11:40] So

[00:11:40]Kellan Finney: when you guys designed that, I mean, it’s, it’s kind of, it’s gotta be really challenging to build, uh, an interface for the diverse set of

[00:11:51]Michael Johnson: operators out in,

[00:11:52]Kellan Finney: in the cannabis industry. How has that kind of obstacle been, um, handled by your guys’ team from [00:12:00] like a customer. Service perspective, because you probably have skillsets from I know how to program to, I don’t know, an Excel sheet looks like.

[00:12:07] Correct. And you have to, you do kind of

[00:12:08]Michael Johnson: create a program that fits, helps everyone . We do, we do. And it’s difficult as I think, um, for some folks we, we’ve certainly, you know, heard, hey, you know, metric doesn’t make sense or I can’t figure out how to do something in metric. Um, for other folks who say it’s super simple.

[00:12:22] Um, and a lot of that’s familiarity and it really is a simple tool that doesn’t mean that it’s always simple to navigate. , but it’s a simplistic tool. And because there are so many different use cases, uh, when you consider state by state, uh, but also when you consider how people do things, it’s not like.

[00:12:38] You know, there’s been 50 years of folks that have, uh, gone to college to figure out how to farm cannabis or, you know, figure out how to distribute cannabis in, in the legal market at least, um, and, and run a dispensary in the same way that things happen in cannabis. It’s very different. It’s, it’s wildly different.

[00:12:54] The industry really, like I said, only, only around for about a decade. Uh, there’s new stuff that [00:13:00] we’re learning all the time. There’s new stuff that the, the states that are coming online are learning and, and certainly folks that are participating, uh, we’re gonna continue to have highs and lows. It’s a, it’s a bit of a, a bit of a chilly time, especially in, in some of the states that have been around longer than than others.

[00:13:15] Um, and certainly for some of those operators. And unfortunately, those growing pains are, are natural when you think about an industry. that is as young as, as cannabis in, in the legal markets is. And, uh, our objective is to try and be the very best partner, be the backbone of the, of the legal market, such that folks can, can find their best solutions that fit their exact use case.

[00:13:38] Um, usually from, from one of our integrator partners. Uh, but sometimes, you know, within metric. To try and be successful. Um, as I mentioned, we did bring in a new CTO a few months back, and so number one objective is to, is to strengthen and harden our performance such that. , that spinning wheel goes away and is, is gone forever.

[00:13:58] Uh, number two after that is [00:14:00] usability. Making sure that we’re providing the best, uh, best experience, best features so that folks can have a, um, uh, um, I, I wouldn’t say, I dunno if I can say a pleasurable experience with compliance, but at least not a painful experience with compliance. Um, we think the best way to get, uh, to, to the highest level of compliance is to make it frictionless.

[00:14:19] So we’re trying to do the very best we can at improving that and support. , all of those different use cases of which there are many different use cases state by state and uh, licensee by licensee. Do you think one

[00:14:29]Bryan Fields: of the areas that’s challenging for some of the users is the fact that there’s like some educational gaps in between understanding some of the regulations to be compliant in the steps because that has to be kind of a missing piece for newer employees.

[00:14:39] Wondering why has to take these additional steps that metrics asking it to, do you think that could be an issue?

[00:14:43]Michael Johnson: It’s 100% an issue. So we have 70 full-time support people that’s half our company. It’s crazy. Um, that’s crazy. . I do not take them all day, but I take them because it’s important. Um, it’s important that, that we know what’s happening.

[00:14:55] Uh, customer service, the customer experience. [00:15:00] Absolutely critical. And so if there’s three things I’ve heard, uh, being a part of Metrc and being in the CEO chair here for, you know, a handful of months, um, it’s, number one, support’s critical. We need help. Uh, number two, training we could learn a lot better.

[00:15:12] And number three, uh, performance, most notably the spinning wheel. . So those are the three areas that I am obsessed with. I mean, maniacally focused like my hair’s on fire at, at tackling. And so we can’t make better decisions from a support perspective, uh, if we’re not really going to the front lines and seeing it.

[00:15:29] So that’s why I take calls. Um, and I will tell you almost every call I’ve ever taken has nothing to do with Metrc It’s, you think it has something to do with Metrc and the folks that call in think it has something to do with Metrc But the reality is it’s, it’s about the regulation and understanding.

[00:15:42] how something works and well, why can’t I move this package? You know what requires a test? Well, Metrc won’t let me move it cuz it’s requiring a test. Well, Metrc won’t let you move it. because the regulation requires you to test and Metrc is configured to match the regulations. Now when you think about [00:16:00] anything in the, in the government, um, and, and anywhere you’ve been at when you were probably 16 when you passed your driver’s test, right?

[00:16:06] Ish, give or take. And maybe, maybe some of us, I don’t know, have had to take, you know, a couple of those. Uh, traffic school, uh, you know, Maybe in a non-voluntary way. Um, but outside of that, when, when do you find out about changes to the traffic laws? Things change all the time. You’ve got different, different, you know, new laws that were passed 10 years ago, you know, nothing about.

[00:16:29] And it’s not like there’s, in any aspect of the world, there’s these educational sessions that everybody’s required to go through or take some kind of a quiz or a test, except for that one time when you were 16 on what happens with those laws. Similarly with cannabis, and those laws tend to be a lot newer.

[00:16:45] You didn’t grow up with them, you didn’t, you know, see your parents and everybody else on the road following the same rules, so you didn’t even know what they. , you go to the State’s website, they’re written in legal ease as rules tend to be, and there’s a reason why they’re written that way. Um, it’s not, it’s not necessarily the most intuitive.

[00:16:59][00:17:00] And so even if it is, even if you read at all, that doesn’t mean that you know how to pull it together. . And so the state generally speaking, doesn’t have a support desk, a help desk. They’re there to, to administer the laws, not to explain the laws to everyone. And so we get a lot of questions cuz we have 70 support people, um, about what, why I can’t do something or how something works.

[00:17:17] And, and a lot of it ends up being educational in terms of, uh, helping people understand the regulations. A lot of it ends up being educational in terms of how people can actually navigate their business. Uh, in inside of the regulations, um, and in many ways we, we hope and we think we’re helping people be compliant, uh, protect public health and, and ultimately build stronger and more robust businesses.

[00:17:39] Um, we think that’s the case. I’m sure sometimes, and I’m sure some people wouldn’t agree, uh, but that’s certainly the objective and, and I feel like that commitment is there when you do a little bit of a better job in terms of execution. A little bit of a better job in terms of providing visibility when there’s more complicated tickets, uh, and certainly doing a little bit of a better job to be able to provide multiple avenues for people to access [00:18:00] our support folks so that you can get the help you need as quickly as possible.

[00:18:03] When new states

[00:18:04]Kellan Finney: come online, do the regulators actually reach out to you guys and be like, Hey, We know that you guys have been helping a lot of other markets do this. Like do you have any pointers, suggestions? Is there a collaborative relationship that you guys have with the regulators or is it kind of like information flows one way and that’s

[00:18:20]Michael Johnson: the end of it?

[00:18:22] It’s gonna depend on the regulator. There’s also a lot. Okay. a lot of, um, unique rules about government contracting. And so, um, we certainly don’t wanna violate any of those rules. So we’re pretty pick solid healthcare, um, being thoughtful about reaching out in the right ways, um, reaching out the appropriate times, not reaching out.

[00:18:39] We’re not supposed to, uh, frequently public contracts are, are won by R F P, which is a, which is a public process. Uh, and so those have very specific rules. They’re very in depth. There are many hundreds of pages. , oddly, but probably not super surprisingly, they’re frequently required to be provided in hard copy.

[00:18:56] Um, and so, you know, you, you go through these [00:19:00] different cycles enough times, uh, that you, you kind of know where you can step and where you can’t. There are a number of scenarios where folks have reached out, um, that are in, that are, you know, trying to regulate non metric states for guidance. Um, there’s a number of scenarios where folks have, have passed legislation and they just need help on, on how they’re structuring things.

[00:19:19] And so, uh, we’re gonna, I’ll answer any question for any person. I don’t care whether it’s, uh, somebody in a metric state, a non metric state, a competitor, or not a competitor. Uh, our goal is to try and support the, the foundations and the, um, the rails of that legal market. Uh, we think we can all prosper from.

[00:19:35] Um, and there’s, it’s a, it’s a pretty exciting space, um, and it’s, it’s a hell of a time to be involved in it. I

[00:19:42]Bryan Fields: feel like the RFP puts your team in a really challenging bind, right? You’re bidding for the governmental contract, but understanding that, kind of like what goes into that from behind the scenes standpoint, but understanding.

[00:19:50] If your team works with 23 different states, you understand the scaling that needs into it, plus the resources that are expected in order to achieve the delight status that you spoke about is [00:20:00] a very complicated balance of wanting to win the contract, but also understanding how to satisfy the demand. So how does your team balance those options?

[00:20:07]Michael Johnson: Yeah. And it’s, it’s actually a third thing as well. It’s price. So, I mean, track and trace contracts aren’t, um, they’re not the, they’re not the most profitable. And so finding ways to, to balance what’s desired and needed from the state, and then also create something that is, um, that’s competitive from a pricing perspective is important.

[00:20:24] And you kind of look at, um, some of the other ways that government software works. Um, there’s a variety of ways that folks are able to try and eek out a living, but there’s a reason why a ton of people don’t make government software. It’s, it’s not. It’s not, there’s not a lot of people in, uh, very big houses that have built a lot of government software.

[00:20:40] There’s some, um, we, they don’t work here, I’ll tell you that. Um, but we, so we, we try and balance it. We wanna be profitable. Um, some of our competitors have have other offerings and other products, and they’re able to generate revenue in, in different ways. We don’t. we have one. Um, and our commitment to kind of, kind of, uh, tiptoeing that line and making sure that we’re [00:21:00] providing something that’s compliant, um, and working with partners that can provide, uh, our value add solutions is something that’s important to us.

[00:21:06] Uh, we wanna maintain our, kind of our, our, uh, perspective in terms of trying to support the foundation and really get back to our core thesis of being that infrastructure supporting function. Um, and so for us it creates a big challenge. trying to be profitable. And I think we all are trying to be profitable and hopefully, we’ll, we’ll make some more progress on that, um, this year and in the coming years, but also trying to honor what the states are, are wanting to accomplish, um, and also being able to, to provide delightful customer service.

[00:21:37] And, um, so as I mentioned, like those, the three areas that people are really focused on for metric are the areas where it’s, it’s hard and it’s expensive. And so those, that’s why, that’s why it works the way it does, cuz it’s hard and it’s expensive to do those things. . Uh, and, and I’m sure there’s many things I can, I can imagine the feedback on this pretty quickly.

[00:21:57] Well, it’s not hard to pick up the phone. Yeah, it, you’re right. It’s [00:22:00] not. But when you get 10,000 calls a day, sometimes it is. And so we’re doing the very best we can to, to find ways that we can make sure that we’re successful, regardless of whether we get 10,000 calls or one call, that every, uh, every person that’s interacting with metric has that delightful experience and, and feels very important because we do value everybody that participates in the metric e.

[00:22:21]Bryan Fields: Has there been one area that surprised or shocked you that before you took the job, you thought one way and then, you know, into the job you realized completely different than what you originally thought?

[00:22:31]Michael Johnson: Yes. Uh, I thought that metric would, um, I thought that the value that was provided was a little bit clearer, uh, to folks.

[00:22:42] And the reality is, is that I don’t think, it’s not unclear. Uh, I think it’s that metric hasn’t done a good job at explaining it. Uh, you definitely, we definitely had our fair share of folks that have, uh, had their frustrations and, you know, shared their perspective on how metric can be better and sometimes just shared a lot of their perspectives, uh, very loudly,[00:23:00]

[00:23:01] and I welcome that, right? Because we, there’s lots of stuff that metric’s done very well at. There’s lots of areas where we just haven’t, uh, and if I don’t know it, if I don’t know it’s a problem because people don’t tell me it’s a problem, then it’s really hard for hard for me to know to fix it. Um, the, the, the perspective, this kind of laser focus on creating the best government solution, uh, has been really, really strong for the government.

[00:23:22] Um, we, we just need to show up the other. . And so I was a little bit surprised, uh, at some of the, some of the conversations with folks. Um, and it really opened up my eyes to, uh, the importance of being that trusted partner as folks are kind of navigating the legal cannabis space. I gotta give you a ton of

[00:23:40] credit,

[00:23:41]Bryan Fields: right?

[00:23:41] I, I went into this before we met, thinking one thing about you and your team, but then hearing your customer service focus, I think, really changed my perspective because es essentially, you don’t have to actually care about the operators the way you’re describing it, right? You’re a government focused software solution where the operators are forced to use it, and I give you a ton of credit for actually being willing to be in the trenches, to listen to the customers and to [00:24:00] figure out ways to help the operators, to help them be more compliant so that they can be educated and understanding what they need to do in order to be c.

[00:24:07]Michael Johnson: Yeah, I, I mean, I do think we have to care about all the users, but, but the contract’s with the state, right? Our contract’s not with the users. And so, um, we can, we can certainly turn a blind eye to that, but that’s, that’s a, that’s a really shortsighted, kind of a, kind of a, an approach. Um, , it, it’s, it would be great if, um, and, and we’ve actually been very fortunate, uh, in some of the last few states we’ve won, we’ve gotten some really excellent feedback.

[00:24:33] Like, yes, metric one, like we’re, we’re gonna be able to, you know, kind of have some that, that great foundation, that great infrastructure that will underpin our market. Um, tremendous feedback from New Jersey. I, I, I was actually. Um, quite surprised now, of course, I’ve been quite surprised in the other way as well.

[00:24:48] So, um, we need to do the very best we can to make metric desired, not required, and to, um, find a way to make compliance frictionless and to find opportunities, little pockets, [00:25:00] uh, of areas where we can, we can surprise and delight Our superpower is the ability to be able to give folks. Reliable single source of truth and to have that, um, visibility in a closed loop supply chain that frankly doesn’t exist anywhere else on the planet.

[00:25:15] So with, uh, say

[00:25:17]Kellan Finney: New Jersey, right. Were you guys in New Jersey as a track and trace system for their medical market? And if so, is

[00:25:22]Michael Johnson: that transition easier to,

[00:25:26]Kellan Finney: uh, launch kind of the recreational software solution that metric provides versus the medicinal

[00:25:32]Michael Johnson: software? Yeah, it, well, medical and adult use are very different.

[00:25:35] Um, yeah, be clear. I mean, you’ve got, and we tend to, we, we tend to partner with folks that are excellent from a patient licensing perspective and, and really can help, um, make sure that all of the medical requirements are covered. Um, they’re experts at that, you know, and we’ve, we have tremendous appreciation for their partnership.

[00:25:52] Uh, for, for New Jersey, it was a bit of, a bit of, A different path from medical to adult use. So, um, it was, it was a little bit of a leaner medical [00:26:00] program than you see in other states. And so adult use, um, certainly enables, uh, much more of a broad representation of legal cannabis in that state. Uh, we were not, uh, part, I think we had.

[00:26:12] We’re not a formal part, I would say, of the, of the medical program there in, in New Jersey. And this predates me a little bit, so I, I apologize for, um, for any ambiguity. Uh, but we are, we, we kicked off our program as if it’s a, a brand new program, uh, in, in New Jersey for adult use. Um, and it’s going well. I mean, it’s new.

[00:26:29] Right. Every, every state’s gonna have its speed bumps and, and every time you do anything new at all, of any kind, it’s gonna have its speed bumps. But, uh, we’re, we’re really proud and with great partners in New Jersey, uh, and we, we feel really strongly that New Jersey’s going to be one of the stronger markets as it continues to mature As

[00:26:46]Bryan Fields: states make adjustments in the regulations, the expectation is internally your team has to make adjustments in the software.

[00:26:51] Is that, is that.

[00:26:53]Michael Johnson: Yes. And sometimes those, those, uh, adjustments happen very rapidly. And so just cause

[00:26:59]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Expand, [00:27:00] expand, expand on how, how challenging something like that is when like a change comes down and the expectation internally is that the software has to be deployed out, changes have to be made, it has to be arced out and it has to be then scaled.

[00:27:10]Michael Johnson: It’s, and it’s not, it’s not just us, right? It we’re, we’re a domino in a very long string of dominoes. Um, and so even the regulatory agencies in, in a given state do not necessarily control all the changes to, to statutes. And so if something passes, In a particular state government, and it could be affected very rapidly.

[00:27:30] Uh, that could require metric to be, you know, sometimes things pass and they say within 30 days, within 45 days. Well, software doesn’t work that way. Just like houses don’t, you know, don’t get billed overnight. And so some of these changes are not insignificant. Um, we get changes in, it’s not uncommon for us to get changes in the middle of December that are effective on one one.

[00:27:49] Uh, and so that happened in a couple of states this year. And so what happens is we have to make the change. And of course, you know, we have, we have folks that have planned holidays and we, we don’t have a huge team. Um, we have a, a decent [00:28:00] sized team, a really good, strong, scrappy team. Um, but it’s not like I have, we just have this endless bench of people that we can pull in on December 23rd to.

[00:28:08] To, to make some fundamental changes to the system. And so, um, so it definitely happens. Uh, we wanna be the best partners we can. We try and get the information. We try and get it, uh, we try and get the best solution we can in place as quickly as possible. And then more importantly, Uh, make sure that folks are aware of what that means because you could not pay attention to any of the changes, not be aware of it.

[00:28:30] Again, no one’s going to school, they’re not getting an email. So I’m explaining to you line by line that this rule changed this week, and now you have to have to do some different things in your business. Uh, so we need to make sure that we’re doing the best we can to educate folks that are, that are in whatever state’s impacted.

[00:28:44] and we need to work with our third party integrated partners, 650. Uh, different organizations may have to also make very, very fundamental changes to their software system and their integration into Metrc There’s a lot that happens very quickly. Um, it tends [00:29:00] to be a bit frustrating for folks. Um, it’s, it’s certainly frustrating.

[00:29:04] It’s frustrating for many of our states that are coming up with the rules because they sometimes have to be reacted to the forces in the states. Uh, it’s certainly frustrating for, for the folks that are operating to kind of have to adapt and adjust. And it’s frustrating for folks that are trying to build their systems to be able to adapt and adjust.

[00:29:19] And one of the, and you guys just get to sit in the. We do, we’re a domino ,

[00:29:24]Bryan Fields: but I think the one thing that I think it’s not clear, but I I wanna bring up is that, that is just one state, right? You’re in 23 states, so potentially there could be multiple states causing multiple changes at the same time. And the expectation is that your team needs to react

[00:29:37]Michael Johnson: likely, quickly.

[00:29:39] Absolutely. Yeah. And, and we have, we’ve done a decent job, I think at that at times. And, and other times we haven’t. Uh, and it’s, it’s not easy. And I’m certainly not asking for, for anybody to have any empathy. That’s our job. That’s what we signed up for. Uh, but it is, it is certainly more challenging. That might meet the eye.

[00:29:55] Alright,

[00:29:56]Bryan Fields: let’s do a, a new segment called, that’s the internet. [00:30:00] I just made that up. Michael, why is California’s cannabis track and trace data statutory exempt from the Public’s Records Act with Access Limited exclusively to the state’s cannabis licensing agency and tax agency and law enforcement by request?

[00:30:17]Michael Johnson: That is a question for the state of California, we, we didn’t, we don’t have anything to do with that. We don’t, um, create the rules. We don’t create the laws. Um, there’s certainly a number of unique reasons why. I, I’m sure California felt that way, but I’d be speculating. Um, there’s, there’s a lot of limitation in data in every state that, that has a program.

[00:30:38] Um, and, and I’m sure they all have unique reasons as to why, uh, we do the best we can to support the agency, support the industry, and, uh, help facilitate compliance in a, in a strong, uh, legal market protecting public health.

[00:30:53]Bryan Fields: Why keep a system in a recreational market that was originally created for. We don’t need to track beer [00:31:00] sales.

[00:31:00] Right. So why cannabis?

[00:31:02]Michael Johnson: Um, well, I mean, it, it was created for medical, I mean, lots of software programs are created for different reasons and then there’s different flavors. Uh, I mean, cannabis seems to be tracked. There’s challenges in the market. I mean, pub seconding, public health’s a real issue. There’s in every single state, whether it’s a metric state or not, there’s been, uh, different recalls.

[00:31:22] There’s been scenarios where, um, there’s been challenges to enforcing public health. There’s been a lot of issues as it relates to, um, building a really strong, a legitimate market that requires the level of visibility, uh, that metric affords. It’s about protecting public health, keeping people. . Um, and, and beer sales is not really the best comparison because, um, first of all, that’s, that’s grow.

[00:31:44] It’s not something that grows out of the ground. Of course, there’s certainly agricultural elements associated with it. Um, but there’s a variety of different elements in cannabis that create, um, some unique nuances in protecting public health, protecting children. I’m protecting folks that might [00:32:00] not appreciate all of the elements of cannabis, the psychoactive.

[00:32:04] they, we absolutely need to do the very best we can. That’s really the only way that we’re going to help build a sustainable legal market, um, is, is one that people can rely on and have confidence in. Uh, cannabis is, A tremendous opportunity, but just like any opportunity, it can go, it can go a couple different ways.

[00:32:23] Uh, track and trace visibility in protecting public health and public trust is stalwart in terms of making sure that is a sustainable and successful industry for many years to come. Yeah. And I also wanna just say that, uh,

[00:32:38]Kellan Finney: beer is legal federally and cannabis is not. And if we want to continue to change the cultural stigma associated with cannabis, we don’t need a state that has an adult use market that isn’t keeping track of what is being manufactured in that state to then transport said product to another state that isn’t, doesn’t have a recreational market.

[00:32:58]Michael Johnson: Um, I just wanna throw that in there. So [00:33:00]

[00:33:01]Bryan Fields: transparency and visibil visibility. Best, this is pretty specific question. Best, easiest, and compliant way to add new genetics to

[00:33:09]Michael Johnson: metric. Uh, I’d have to talk you through it. I’m not gonna answer this directly cause I’d have to kind of walk you through it. Um, I’ll tell you, this is an area that we pay really close attention to as cannabis is federally illegal.

[00:33:21] The, uh, ability to patent your different new, um, different, uh, crosses and. Different plants with different genetic makeup is certainly something that’s important. There’s a ton of mom and pop shops folks that really, really spend a ton of time, uh, honing their craft, developing these, these special strains.

[00:33:39] Um, and then they’re at risk of people taking them or copying them, and that’s something that. Uh, at, from a compliance perspective is an area that we pay close attention to because it’s usually protected somewhere else and it’s not. So how do we help partner with folks? How do we give them the best information?

[00:33:55] Uh, how do we make sure that the industry overall is protected? So these are different areas. [00:34:00] Uh, this is an example of an area that we’ve spent time talking, uh, with some of our regulatory partners with. Um, certainly heard a lot of, a lot of complaints, uh, a lot of fear out of folks that, um, feel like they’ve developed something incredible.

[00:34:13] And you know, as soon as they get on the market or you know, somebody breaks in and seals a plant, that’s a big problem. And so we want to, we wanna be thoughtful of that. Uh, and this is really just one very small example of how we’re trying to think of value add opportunities to support the legal compliant market.

[00:34:30] Will that help with their

[00:34:30]Kellan Finney: patent application? Will they be able to like, reference them inputting that genetics as like, uh, um, some sort of evidence to support their patent in the future? Is that kind

[00:34:39]Michael Johnson: of where your head. I’m not a patent attorney, so good answer. I hear anything I’m saying is, uh, as, as legal advice.

[00:34:47] Um, I would hope that, I would think, based on what I know about patents, so we have 10, um, that any, any evidence of something existing in the world, uh, earlier than later is, is helpful. It’s meaningful, smart, uh, whether or not that’s going to [00:35:00] be meaningful enough to secure somebody, a patent or. Can’t provide that, uh, that perspective.

[00:35:06] Um, but we wanna do the best we can to support folks in any way possible. And this is certainly something that’s come up. That’s a beautiful answer, by the way,

[00:35:14]Bryan Fields: is your, is your team tracking any data? Have they found any trends? And are you planning on releasing a published peer review paper in the future?

[00:35:22]Michael Johnson: That’s an excellent question. So we, the data’s not ours. The data belongs to the state. It belongs to you as the consumer, and it belongs to the different licensee. Um, there are different scenarios where any of those, um, different, different stakeholders has asked us to spend time in the data. And we certainly spend time in the data as it relates to trying to improve the product or to improve the customer experience, um, in terms of a peer reviewed paper, I don’t know that we have gotten a number of, uh, over the years there’s been a number of different, um, reviews and, uh, uh, papers, um, that have been reviewed, um, that dig into.

[00:35:57] Some of the effects [00:36:00] of, um, metric in a market that’s legal without metric, um, metric in, in regards to how the legal market processes things. Um, but the data for us is not something that we’re gonna share without anybody’s permission. Uh, we, we very, very much value, um, our customers, um, both state and users, and we’re certainly not out here trying.

[00:36:22] that data. If people would like to make their data available for research projects and whatnot, we’re certainly happy to partner with those folks. Assuming we get the proper permission.

[00:36:30]Bryan Fields: Are there any plans to alter the current API or the constant issues of the uptime that’s, uh, a constant request

[00:36:37]Michael Johnson: by others?

[00:36:38] Yeah, so, uh, uptime is, well, let me, let me talk about api. So, API for metric, um, is actually completely free. And that’s an interesting thing because the API itself, Well, a, it’s an extremely rare thing. Um, for us, the API’s a little bit more basic than you would typically hope, uh, kind of a world class API would be.

[00:36:58] And again, that comes back to [00:37:00] the economics of it. Um, and so there are a number of integrators that have requested very specific. Either endpoints or access or, um, web hooks are very common. And so we’ve definitely begun partnership with, with some folks on developing that. Uh, we call it Metric Connect. Um, we’re certainly, uh, working with folks.

[00:37:20] It’s actually been beta tested, uh, with more than 10 a p i integrators. Uh, we expect that to grow and we expect people to continue to get that opportunity if they. Metrics API will always have a free option. The vast majority of books, um, should, should never pay for access to metrics api. But if you want things that are above and beyond what we would consider kind of the the norm, um, we certainly want to give you that option as well.

[00:37:44] And then for, uh, the uptime, so metrics uptime is actually quite good. Um, the difference between uptime and I think what the question’s probably asking is kind of what we refer to as functional time. And so the product itself being. and the product moving at the [00:38:00] pace that you expect is not necessarily the same thing.

[00:38:03] The ladder is what I’m mostly concerned about, right? If the product’s not performing at the pace of your business, then it’s not performing the way that that we expect it to be. And so that’s the effort that we’re really focused on. Um, that doesn’t mean that there hasn’t been outages, of course there are, but, um, generally speaking, when folks are speaking, uh, about challenges with uptime, they’re talking about timeouts and how long things take.

[00:38:25] The system is still technically up. It’s just not performing at the same, uh, the same level that, that we aspire to. And so there has been dramatic improvements over the last handful of months, uh, especially, uh, since we made the migration to Azure. Certainly moves, um, quite a bit faster. Um, but we’re not done.

[00:38:43] And there’s a lot more opportunity to, in improve performance and to ensure that people have that delightful experience in metric. And we are, I, I, again, I cannot stress how committed we are to that.

[00:38:57]Bryan Fields: Are there any assets, efforts or strategies you [00:39:00] wish you people paid more

[00:39:01]Michael Johnson: attention? Um, yes. So there’s a lot of folks that, that will talk about metric as it relates to, um, kind of a compliance element, and they forget or miss this massive goldmine they have in front of them in R F I D.

[00:39:16] And so folks that are struggling to make money or you spend, you think you spend too much money on people or you need too many resources, probably not taking advantage of R F I D, whether it’s automated inventory counting, whether it’s, um, location and tracking. Uh, nutrients that you’re putting into plants or how much water or what location they’re in, um, or looking at the yields on a per plant basis.

[00:39:37] It is incredible. And a lot of say, a lot of people say it’s just too much. It takes too long. Um, the, I mean, it takes less than four seconds to, to go through an entire process from a manual process, uh, of, of weighing a plant if you’re using an RFID enabled. . Um, and if I have, you know, a room of a hundred plants, they’re just not all going to end up yielding the same amount.

[00:39:58] And if for, for many [00:40:00] growers, getting 10 more grams per plant would be, could be the difference between, you know, bankruptcy and being widely successful. Uh, that level of visibility and that data exists, it’s there. It’s passively collected. It’s cheap. You already have the, I mean most expensive part is the, is the inlay and the tag.

[00:40:17] If you had a similar RFID tag, that wasn’t a Metrc tag, but it was had like the similar specifications, you would pay three times as much In market. You have this amazing opportunity to, to get this information, to be very successful and to be at the cutting edge of efficiency as it relates to your operation.

[00:40:34] Again, grow operation distribution Uh, producing, manufacturing, whatever it is. Uh, folks just don’t take enough advantage of RFID and it really is a game changer.

[00:40:45]Kellan Finney: What’s the first step in like a smart factory?

[00:40:47]Michael Johnson: You know what I mean? It is, yeah. I mean, and, and folks say, uh, first of all, you already have the tag on there, so that’s usually like the biggest thing, like I have to, but the, the fact that you’ve got the tag, I mean the, the amount [00:41:00] of money saved and the, the fewer steps and fewer processes and the greater visibility.

[00:41:05] It’s just incredible. It’s such a gold mine. What’s a feature request? You

[00:41:10]Bryan Fields: get a lot, but you’ll never. .

[00:41:13]Michael Johnson: Um, we get a lot of questions about, uh, things that our partners do. So like ERPs, can we just add this one feature? Um, and, and we’re not an E R P and I don’t intend to go out and sell things to, to retailers, um, or, or cultivators.

[00:41:28] Uh, perhaps that day would come, but that’s not really our focus. Our focus is trying to create that strong foundational element. Uh, we certainly recommend that folks connect with, with the integration. . Um, we’re not trying to compete with our integration partners. We’re trying to create a better foundation so that they can be successful and provide meaningful, uh, opportunities for the industry.

[00:41:48]Bryan Fields: When you started your journey in the cannabis industry, what did you get? Right, and most importantly, what did you get wrong?

[00:41:54]Michael Johnson: Uh, what I got right is, uh, I thought I was like, all right, it’s cannabis. It’s just software though. It’s fine. It’s just a different product. That was right. [00:42:00] It is just software and, and we can say that it’s different and, and it is.

[00:42:03] There’s so many nuances with cannabis, but at the end of the day, The, the normal tenants of software, build a good product, make it reliable for people, and delight your customers is the same regardless of the industry. Uh, and so I got that right. I was very, very much, um, I think, I think that’s a universal truth and it’s certainly been proven out.

[00:42:24] What I got wrong is, um, folks, I, I think that the effort to demonstrate how we can. , we can make compliance easier for folks. I, I kind of thought that would be a little bit, a little bit simpler. Um, and a lot of the challenges are things that I just didn’t, I didn’t fully appreciate the complexity inside the industry, inside the state, inside the counties.

[00:42:46] And there’s rules that are different. County by county, there’s rules that are different inside of a city that’s inside of a county, that’s inside of a state. And, and depending on where you’re at, any of those three, the rules are different. So you just don’t know those things, uh, in the same way that you, that [00:43:00] you do when you actually live them day in and day.

[00:43:03] That

[00:43:03]Bryan Fields: was, uh, perfectly said. . Before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?

[00:43:13]Michael Johnson: Uh, find ways to think about the long, the long game, right? Even in your, I mean, this has been a hell of a hell of a year, uh, I guess the past 12 ish months for folks in the cannabis space.

[00:43:23] Um, you know, it’s very challenging for folks, uh, for, for some folks at least. to survive and to find ways to keep their business going. Um, I think about the long game and, you know, there’s definitely dark days. There’s definitely, you know, days when the sun comes out and the sun certainly always comes out after the dark days.

[00:43:39] Uh, we’ve had a lot of challenges here. I know, I know a lot of our customers have had challenges. Uh, I I try and think about the long game or, uh, and, and also try not to get too hung up. , kind of the individual ups and downs and nuances. I mean, I had great news when I came in today. I had not so great news right after that.

[00:43:57] And then great news, uh, great news again. So the [00:44:00] ebbs and flows will each yell live if you, uh, if you let ’em. And so, um, pay attention to the long game. I do believe that metric is doing everything possible to support. The success of the long game by creating this solid infrastructure, uh, where both consumers and non-consumers alike can have confidence in the legal ecosystem and in cannabis coming to their communities.

[00:44:23] Prediction

[00:44:23]Bryan Fields: time. Michael, if you can instantly change any aspects of operating in cannabis to get metric from being desired, not just required,

[00:44:32]Michael Johnson: what would you. , uh, I would outside of cannabis or in inside of metric, operating inside

[00:44:38]Bryan Fields: cannabis. So anything that metric can, can help influence to make operating in cannabis.

[00:44:43] not just being

[00:44:44]Michael Johnson: desired, but acquired. Yeah, I’d put metric in every state. Um, it’d be a lot easier if metric was in every state. And we create that standard because the state rules and regulations will always be different. Uh, just as one of the questions was about beer, the rules and regulations in, you know, in, [00:45:00] in liquor and beer are different everywhere, every county.

[00:45:03] I mean, I, I don’t know if it’s still true, but it was true for a long time that you couldn’t buy Jack Daniels in the county for which it was Distilled Uh, rules are always gonna change. They’re always gonna be like that. Uh, if you have a standard that pulls kind of everything together and takes this noise and distills it into the standard that’s common across the states, then you get into a situation where everybody’s speaking the same language, everybody’s compliant in the same kind of way.

[00:45:25] Uh, you really open the door to that kind of holy grail. At least. I think a lot of states in the west are peeling, which is interstate commerce, and even further beyond that, as you pay attention to what’s happening in. Europe Being able to export from the United States into Europe is gonna be massive for the industry.

[00:45:42] Uh, and the best way to do that is to, is to create a standard. Um, and so I would say, you know, that those, that those annoyances, um, when you rely on those annoyances of compliance to, be able to really grow your business at a way that you otherwise didn’t have the opportunity, well, then it, feels a lot more, [00:46:00] uh, desired than required.

[00:46:03]Kellan Finney: I mean, I think Michael said it perfectly. I

[00:46:05]Michael Johnson: think that the

[00:46:07]Bryan Fields: change

[00:46:08]Michael Johnson: is creating a

[00:46:10]Kellan Finney: universal

[00:46:11]Michael Johnson: system of regulation, right? Um, it’s

[00:46:14]Kellan Finney: challenging if you are working for an M MSO and say you are running the lab or manufacturing site in Illinois and then you. To Oregon, and then you gotta visit the site down in California and you’re dealing with very technical conversations associated with trying to achieve outcomes of product development.

[00:46:35] And then to throw another caveat in there, you also have to adjust your. Procedure based on what is allowed from a regulatory perspective in each one of those states, which then doesn’t help create universal products across state lines and kind of, uh, snowballs into this larger problem within the industry.

[00:46:55] So I think that at the end of the day, Uh, global framework for [00:47:00] con that

[00:47:00]Michael Johnson: everyone can follow is gonna be

[00:47:02]Kellan Finney: the most beneficial.

[00:47:03]Michael Johnson: Um, what do you think, Brian?

[00:47:05]Bryan Fields: Uh, I mean, it’s incredibly challenging, right? Your team needs to scale out in front of the industry’s needs to anticipate these, these ideas that are coming online, but also be flexible enough with the regulators that are, make these changes to implement the changes quickly and swiftly, but also then provide the education to the clients of the software so that they’re aware of the changes and the hurdles that go.

[00:47:23] All within this really finite balance, early in an industry, it’s incredibly complex and very, very challenging game. And Michael, for our listeners, they wanna get in touch, they wanna learn more about metric, and they wanna speak to you directly. I know you’re pretty open. Where can they find ya? Yeah, you

[00:47:36]Michael Johnson: can find me anytime.

[00:47:37] Feel free to email me anytime. Um, michael dot johnson metric.com. I’m fairly, uh, fairly active at LinkedIn. Uh, metric is [email protected]. Uh, we’ve got a lot of new folks in the last year. We kind of shifted our, our focus, so, uh, there’s some folks in the field, there’s outreach. Uh, any questions, anything we can do better?

[00:47:58] Uh, any way we can be stronger. Please don’t [00:48:00] hesitate to reach out. I don’t think I hear enough. Um, we really are committed doing the very best we. I appreciate it. I’ll link

[00:48:05]Bryan Fields: it up on the show. Thanks for taking the time. This was fun. Thank you.

Las Vegas knows how to regulate sin.

This week on The Dime, we host Chris LaPorte, Founder of RESET Vegas to discuss the following:

• Location, Location, Location
• Monitoring consumption
• How brands can partner for national exposure
• Entertainment experiences
• And so much more

RESET is a cannabis hospitality management company specializing in the development and operation of unique experiential venues and events with a focus on videogame culture, esports, skill-based gaming, and the implementation of VR/AR technologies.

Combining Las Vegas hospitality excellence with cannabis regulatory expertise, RESET will develop and operate social-use lounges to accommodate the diverse demographics of the 21+ cannabis industry.

RESET will usher in a new era of nightlife and entertainment creating the gold standard of cannabis experiences in Las Vegas and scale to regulated markets.

#cannabisconsumptionlounges #cannabisinsider #cannabis

Guest Links

https://www.reset.vegas/
https://www.instagram.com/chrisofcoins/?hl=en
https://twitter.com/ChrisOfCoins
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-laporte-52471b52/

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At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev), we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.

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