Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
Khiron is taking a different approach than US Cannabis companies.
They are building data systems to provide evidence-based research to reduce stigma, adopt normalization, and convert opioid users to medical cannabis. Their systems and achievement have quickly led to many breakthroughs, as recently announced, “Khiron signs deal with Bogota’s largest public health insurance for medical cannabis coverage.” Now that Columbia is on board, Khiron has its eyes on disrupting other international medical markets by taking the data-based evidence to Brazil, Peru, Mexico, and many others
This week on The Dime, we host Alvaro Torres, CEO of Khiron, to discuss
- Providing data-based evidence to influence regulators
- International challenges & opportunities
- Building foundational systems for personalized medicine
- How US Cannabis companies are looking to replicate Khiron’s international success
- and so much more
About Khiron
A GLOBAL MEDICAL CANNABIS COMPANY IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF PEOPLES’ LIVES.We believe in the benefits of medical cannabis to improve people’s quality of life through the development of high-quality pharmaceutical products, continuous medical education for health professionals, and permanent monitoring of the patient in their treatment, through the Patient Follow-up Program.#CannabisInsier #KHRN #GlobalCannabis
TSXV: KHRN | OTCQX: KHRNF
#cannnabisinsider #internationalcannabis #KHRNF
Khiron Links:
https://khiron.ca/
https://twitter.com/khironlife
https://www.instagram.com/khironlife/?hl=en
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alvaroftorres/?originalSubdomain=co
https://twitter.com/alvarotorresrue
Follow us: Our Links.
At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev), we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.
8th Revolution Cannabinoid Playbook is an Industry-leading report covering the entire cannabis supply chain
The Dime is a top 5% most shared global podcast
The Dime is a top 50 Cannabis Podcast
Sign up for our playbook here:
🎥 YouTube: The Dime
📸 Instagram: The Dime
🐣 Twitter: Bryan Fields, Kellan Finney
[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys? Welcome back to an episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields and with me as always, as Kellen Finney. And this week got a very special guest, Avaro Torres, c e o of Chiron Avaro, thanks for taking the time. How you doing
[00:00:12]Alvaro Torress: today? Hi Brian, how are you? Hi Ke, nice to, nice to see you again. Thank you so much for inviting
[00:00:18]Bryan Fields: me.
[00:00:18] We’re excited to dive in. Kellen, how are you doing? I’m doing really
[00:00:21]Alvaro Torress: well. Really well, thank you. Oh, sorry, .
[00:00:24]Kellan Finney: I’m doing well. Uh, really excited to talk to Alro. I mean, just couldn’t be more excited to learn about international cannabis and I think it’s the next wave of the industry. How are you Brian? I’m
[00:00:34]Bryan Fields: excited also, I think so much on this podcast we talk about what’s going on in the United States, and I think we need to kind of take a, a higher level perspective out and have like a real macro global game because at, at its core cannabis e is a global game.
[00:00:45] And Avaro, we usually have an east coast, west coast battle. So I guess it’s finally time to have an outside choice. Uh, this have to be what a, a global participant. What do you think? Ke Yeah, global. Where, where, where are you
[00:00:57]Alvaro Torress: residing globally? I am here in [00:01:00] Bogota, in Colombia, so West, east, and now the south is coming strong
[00:01:05] I
[00:01:05]Bryan Fields: like that. I like it. So for Avaro, for our listeners, that unfamiliar by you, can you give it a little background
[00:01:10]Alvaro Torress: about yourself? Yes, Brian. Uh, well, so, uh, I’m an engineer by trade. I went to school in the United States in upstate New York. R rpi. I, you know, the school, I got my master’s there, got an MBA in Georgetown.
[00:01:23] Um, and then my life has been around infrastructure and pipelines and buildings and power lines. Um, that’s been all, you know, since I was very little. Cause my parents used to own one of the country’s biggest engineering companies. Um, five, six years ago I moved out from engineering. I found that cannabis could be something life-changing and dramatically, uh, disruptive to, to the health industry.
[00:01:49] Um, I didn’t know anything about cannabis. I, I’m not a regular user of marijuana on my own. Um, I guess never really tried it that much. Um, but [00:02:00] I started a company because I felt that, uh, there was something, a need to be able to help patients. And even though if I didn’t know anything about cannabis, I got to learn pretty quickly.
[00:02:09] And then you start trying to figure out how to improve the quality of people’s lives. Um, and I do have that engineering mentality of step 1, 2, 3. How do you solve that? Those type of problems. I guess that helped me a little bit in trying to set this up, but, um, you know, I, I think right now being able to build what we build, uh, is a testament to all of that.
[00:02:29] You know, years and years of good training, good parents, good friends, and, uh, good investors.
[00:02:35]Bryan Fields: So we like to talk about the hesitation some have when diving into cannabis. So from your perspective and your parents kind of weighing in, was there any hesitations for you to kind of take an engineering background and kind of come into cannabis?
[00:02:46]Alvaro Torress: Uh, yes. Yes. I think first time, uh, we sort of. Had the guts to say it out loud, Hey, you know, maybe I will move from building billion dollar airports to, uh, starting a [00:03:00] cannabis company. First thing everybody ask you is like, I, I didn’t know you were a pothead, , . You, you look too educated to be a pothead. How did we send, do you go to Georgetown coming back and smoking pot?
[00:03:13] Um, and of course I don’t really use it at all. Like if I’ve used it three times in my life, that would be way too much. Um, but so that was the first, uh, sort of the first reaction most people had, um, friends, family, uh, in no, in no way sort of saying, don’t do it at all. Just it’s shocking that you want to go into that when your, you know, all your life has been in, you know, real like solid project, physical projects, billion dollars, and um, but then you start explaining why I’m getting into this.
[00:03:44] And it’s not because I like marijuana, it’s because I found that we live in a region where healthcare is too expensive. , and it makes no sense that we pay international companies to produce products that are very expensive for our patients. And we, we could produce it here [00:04:00] and we could sell it here, and we could improve the quality of life here, or we could create an economy here.
[00:04:06] And then, you know, after five minutes after, okay, whatever, go on, go and do it. . That’s, that’s sort of the, the first, uh, reaction. And, and, you know, you start these businesses, I, you know, we start talking to people that know you trying to raise capital here. And I guess six years, five years ago, uh, it was such a taboo subject, uh, that, you know, nobody really understood what it, what it meant.
[00:04:28] But there’s a lot of funny stories and all of those things, uh, people who really didn’t, um, understand it. And in Spanish, my name Alvero, uh, we have a war for marijuana called Barre. . And so people used to call me Al Barreto , but then in the day, uh, I think sometimes sticks when late night, couple of drinks, people still call me that.
[00:04:50] But yeah, it was, it was quite a shock, but, um, very
[00:04:54]Bryan Fields: supportive. So what is the current status of Columbia from, uh, a medical [00:05:00] standpoint, adult use? How does that work for, for those who run familiar? And then what’s Chiron’s role in, in kind of assisting the, the change of the
[00:05:06]Alvaro Torress: industry? Well, um, I think Columbia’s one of the most advanced countries when it comes to regulation of medical cannabis.
[00:05:12] Um, it is true that it’s only focused on oils and extracts as a medical market, but it’s also true that the government, uh, has unequivocally decided to cover medical cannabis for patient. , which is really, you think other countries that have this, you think about Germany, um, but not the United States for sure.
[00:05:32] Certainly about Canada. And that’s really the, the best way to really encourage an industry to flourish because the real competitor to medical cannabis is opioids. And opioids are free. You can get high on, on, you know, morphine because your doctor prescribes it. It’s paid by the insurance system and there’s no way to get out of that.
[00:05:53] And for, you know, patients who don’t have the ability to pay for this type of products, they rather probably get a free morphine [00:06:00] than pay for Cannabis out of pocket. So I think that decision from the government has been very, very strong. Colomb is not a small country. It’s 50 million people, 6 million people with chronic pain.
[00:06:11] So there’s a real need for it to make changes on this regulation so that, you know, the country realize that this is a way not just to create economy, but also to reduce the cost of healthcare. Um, and I think. regarding the role of Chiron, and, and this is going to sound a bit smug and I don’t want it to come across of that, but I think the last five years, Kyron has been at the center of all that change.
[00:06:36] Um, and I, I don’t mean to be smug about it, but it has been sort of the purpose of our lives, of my life to be able to change regulation and improve the quality of people’s lives. That means that everything we’ve built so far is to be able to generate data, uh, to be able to show the, the, the doctors, the patients, insurance companies, banks.
[00:06:57] We’ve been at the forefront of all these fights [00:07:00] with the banking industry to get bank accounts, okay? We want that to get the first license, cultivate, to have our own pharmacy because nobody else wanted to distribute it and then show the government the data to say, listen, this is safe medication. It can be produced here in the country.
[00:07:17] You can create a lot of jobs, but most importantly for you, There’s a lot of pharmaeconomic benefits. It can do a lot of good and it can be cheaper for you. And you know, we’ve been at the,
[00:07:38] oh, I think I got disconnected somehow. Just briefly
[00:07:40]Kellan Finney: though. Yeah, you’re good.
[00:07:42]Bryan Fields: Okay, we’re good. Hold on, take, take a pause first, so
[00:07:45]Alvaro Torress: it’s okay. Maybe I was being too small. You guys
[00:07:47]Bryan Fields: said No, no, it’s perfect. No, I, I I wanna ask my follow up question, but I want you to finish your statement. So just
[00:07:51]Alvaro Torress: like, pause. No, I just, just to finalize that Yeah.
[00:07:54] We’ve been at the forefront of that. I think everybody in the country not only understands it, but [00:08:00] recognizes the role that Cairo has had in all these changes in the regulation.
[00:08:03]Kellan Finney: Yeah. And I wanna stick with, uh, the impact you’re having on so many people’s lives. So I think I read on your guys’ website that there’s probably 620 million patients in South America.
[00:08:15] So like, according to your data, That number is gonna grow, right? Just as more, uh, uses for the plant are adopted for medical purposes. So how do you prepare your organization
[00:08:28]Bryan Fields: for that kind to meet those kind of demands?
[00:08:31]Alvaro Torress: Well, I think, uh, the way you have to think about Chiron is we are very focused on building the demand.
[00:08:37] We are not that interested or we are not interested at all in building the supply side of it. Okay. Um, our strategy particularly starting on is being to grow a small amount of cannabis. Right. But starting this year onwards, um, I’m very sure that most of that supply that we will need is gonna come from all the sources of people who can [00:09:00] actually produce that.
[00:09:01] So cannabis, uh, there’s a size to it, of course, but there’s plenty of companies that can provide that type of product. I think the challenge is not on the supply side. It’s on how do you put those bottles, those products in the hands of a patient. Once, twice, three times, 12 times a year. Right. And so the company was vertically integrated, but just for the purpose that we had to do it cuz somebody had to do it first.
[00:09:26] Yeah. My obsession and the obsession of the company is on building the demand. So, you know, when you think about how to tackle all of that, um, let’s take out the department. We think that we need to cultivate all of that cuz that’s not the way it’s gonna work. Every country eventually will have its own supply chain.
[00:09:45] Uh, what really growers and extraction companies need is a market. And that market needs to be built. So the challenge of building that demand on that side, Then comes with, um, being able to publish information to show the [00:10:00] doctors that it works. It doesn’t happen overnight at all, of course. But now that Columbia has uh, agreed to, uh, insurance coverage, you can take that evidence to Brazil, to colo, to Peru, to Mexico.
[00:10:12] Slowly and slowly, you’re gonna be able to get all these people to understand that this, that this matters. And today is not a, a big taboo as I was when I started the company. So you heard, you see a lot more patients wanting to, to think about it. And you work with a very efficient supply chain. And that’s the way we’re actually doing it in Europe.
[00:10:30] Cause it wasn’t really important to us to service all of that on our own. I think we need to be, uh, agents of change socially as well. Um, that means that we need to be able to see how we can produce change in others. Uh, how do we have economics in other countries? How do people can benefit from the work that we do and not necessarily have to grow it ourselves.
[00:10:53]Bryan Fields: I think that’s so important, right? Because when we talk about it how early we still are in the, in the infancy of the industry, agency of change is [00:11:00] critical because your team isn’t kind of following the road in front. It is chopping down the trees and making the path forward where there is no road before.
[00:11:07] And I think people sometimes forget that we are still so early that your team is having to make that road to pent up that demand and the supply’s gonna have to go. So the industry is scaling with your.
[00:11:17]Alvaro Torress: Yes, yes, Brian. I think absolutely the, I think the beauty and the tough part of the company is that there is no road to follow.
[00:11:25] Nobody told us that the only, that the best way to sell calories was go and build your own clinics and all of these things that we’ve done. Sometimes you miss, of course, but that’s also part of the learning curve for how do you get it better. And part of that learning was also to understand that, you know, we, if we focus on the demand side, this idea of supply chain and we growing ourselves starts to make little, little sales for our business.
[00:11:49] But, um, I think this also exciting when you are able to spend months, months trying to get a government to change their views. I mean, we also got just the NHS in [00:12:00] UK to cover our first patient in the. And so that takes months and that takes a lot of trial and error. And then you say people come back to you and say, well, that was only one patient.
[00:12:12] They’re like, yeah, well, you know, just one guy,
[00:12:17] Um, but if you understand that those are the necessary steps to change what’s happening, um, five years from now, we’ll see an industry that’s very well developed. Uh, I’m very medical and where there’s gonna be plenty of room for everybody to compete, but it does take that first patient to go that route, that first government official.
[00:12:36] Um, maybe the second is easier. And by the time you’re, your first 10,000 patient is a piece of cake. Of course to get there. , be a bit more challenging. We have to,
[00:12:49]Kellan Finney: it’s all downhill from there, right? Once you get to 10,000, it’s all downhill.
[00:12:53]Bryan Fields: Everyone forgets. Someone has to be first, right? Like everyone forgets that like in the beginning of industry, someone has to be [00:13:00] first.
[00:13:00] So I want to talk about the, the first medical cannabis contract with one of Columbia’s largest insurance companies. How, how long does something like that take in order to achieve the finish line? And like what type of resources go into something like making something like that
[00:13:14]Alvaro Torress: actually happen? Well, um, I would say it, it’s taken us nine months to get this done.
[00:13:21] Um, and, but the entire idea is that, We, we have, our clients are insurance companies, Columbia, right? So they send us patients, we treat them for pain, for neurological situations, for sleep disorders and mental health. And we know how to use cannabis. So we are, you know, funneling some of these patients to use cannabis.
[00:13:41] That’s the way we’ve been doing it. But also at the same time, we are always thinking, I mean, eventually somebody will catch up to that. How do we go after clients and show them that it’s no longer about just sending us patients. We have to be very clear that medical candidates works and how do we get those [00:14:00] type of clients?
[00:14:01] And we were lucky because the city of Bogota, I don’t know if you’ve been to Bogota, but it’s 9 million people. This is a major metropoli, uh, metropolis. Um, about March, they started trying to, The city to be a hub for medical cannabis. If you look at the, at the pr, we will have a quote for one of the top councilmen there who, you know, was promoting the fact that Bogota should be a hub for research, a hub for development of medical cannabis.
[00:14:28] So taking that, we went to Capital Salute, which is, you know, the top, the largest insurance company in Bogota that’s also publicly owned. And, uh, we start talking about how can we help them to treat their patients. Now some, sometimes these things happen because, uh, nice accidents and, you know, you have to be prepared for that.
[00:14:48] But the first thing they really, they asked us is, you know, the problem that we have is that, uh, specialized clinics like yourselves are only in the nicer parts of town. And our patients, [00:15:00] uh, 1.2 million population are in the outskirt of the city where the access to high quality medical services is not too good.
[00:15:09] And then when they said that, we reply, well, do you know that Chiron just built. Two new clinics in January and February in those parts of town. And that when you talk about opportunity meets, you know, uh, luck is, is because when we did that by then it was a year ago, it’s because I always felt that we have a tremendous, um, tremendously good service and that servicing healthcare, we really want to change people’s lives, has to be equal anywhere in the city.
[00:15:37] So it just so happened that when they go and see that, I say, so you have clinics near to where my patients. Absolutely. Here’s the capacity. We build two of them and then we start looking at, okay, so we can do this with medical cannabis, but also for them, while we’ve never had a private clinic of that level of service near to where patients leave.[00:16:00]
[00:16:00] And so that took that conversation. They had to do a tender by company. Um, but of course there’s nobody else that can sort of try to get that job done. We went through a tender process. At the same time, you know, we are, we had patients from them that were coming to the clinic, paying out of pocket because they were not our clients.
[00:16:22] So the first thing we started saying is, but third thing is, listen, there’s already patients that are very poor, that are coming to our clinic, paying whatever, $50 a bottle who have now, are now forced to be interrupting their, their, their, uh, product because they can no longer afford it. . And so all these things started combining together.
[00:16:44] Uh, you know, we had quality visits, we had many meetings, uh, with them on, on their, on the proposal. How do we get this done? Cuz nobody’s ever done something like that. It’s, this contract is specifically for chemical cannabis treatments. Um, and so of course you have to also [00:17:00] understand that this a public entity.
[00:17:01] It takes time. Uh, they cannot just give you a contract. That’s not the way it works. Um, we sign you on December 27th. Uh, we start in December 28th, . Um, so I’m very excited about it cause it’s a very large insurance company because I think it validates all the pains and all these jungle that you are doing.
[00:17:22] It validates a lot of that because we built the clinics, nobody told us to do. Because we did, uh, all this, we invested a lot in quality service for the patients, uh, waiting times, things like that. And then somebody comes in and says, well, that’s really what I need. And now I’m hoping that taking this sample, we can go out there and to all insurance companies in Colombia and show them we can manage the patient for you.
[00:17:45] Which I think it’s interesting because what we are doing now is saying to the insurance company, give me your patients. We will take care of this patients. You can, we will do all the quality controls that you need, but let us manage that patient’s [00:18:00] pain. It could be with cannabis, it can be with something else.
[00:18:03] So this model of integrative care, finally, let’s say I found, uh, we found a client that says, that’s exactly what I need because what I need is to make sure that our patients are feeling better. And so I think, and it’s been very well advertised in the country, in the city particularly because it breaks the taboo.
[00:18:23] It’s the first time a insurance company says publicly, Hey, um, go to these guys and they’ll treat you. And they, if, if medical cannabis is applicable, there’s no fear for you to take it. So, uh, I think I keep dreaming about that, what that could be outside also, uh, when you combine it with the n H S news in uk, it just sort of tells you, I mean, we are wrong a lot of times, but maybe the, the good things that we do, um, have a very important impact.
[00:18:52] And I think they’re gonna have an impact not only in Chiron, but on the entire country and on the entire continent. Because the moment somebody has the guts to do [00:19:00] something like this, then other people follow. And if those people follow, then we’re gonna have a. Yeah, I wanna
[00:19:06]Kellan Finney: stay with, uh, the, the conversation on the insurance.
[00:19:08] So when you were working with, with them, was there certain stipulations they had about, uh, products that you guys could prescribe to potential patients? Or were they kind of just like very hands off? Like, that’s your guys’ world of expertise. You handle it from there and we’ll just kind of trust your
[00:19:25]Alvaro Torress: guidance.
[00:19:27] So Kelly, I told you before about the, the evidence that we have built. Yeah. So we, we started in Colombia with five, uh, products. Oil, oil, oil based. That’s sublingual. High TC to high C b D five different products. And we’ve been doing this for two years. Right? Uh, so when you have more than 25,000 patients, you have a lot of data Yeah.
[00:19:49] Regarding what works and what doesn’t work. We, we’ve been, we’ve made four publications, international, uh, publications regarding use of cannabis, uh, with populations up to [00:20:00] 2,500 patients. Things that not, not a lot of people can do or have been able to do. So when we’re talking to them first, it’s like you have to understand that the government itself was already saying, okay, these, let’s say these five products or these five combinations work.
[00:20:14] But then you start showing them the data. They interview their patients, they see, okay, so they’re not really, um, it’s not just prescribe whatever cannabis you want, that there’s evidence and there’s signs behind it to measure your publications. And we know, we can see from your data that it’s a safe product.
[00:20:31] So that also started the conversation about it because it’s not just like, Somebody cultivate cannabis, smoke it, and they feel better. So that ability to bring down that, uh, adult use to, uh, something more scientific, um, that has been published. It, it also allows the city, you think, go back to the, to the notion that the city wants to be a hub for it.
[00:20:55] So it’s perfect for them because it means, okay. So with this we can probably work with [00:21:00] Cairo and other companies so we can start developing more, more, more data, more science, and really be a hub. So it does, it does take data and, and evidence and those are the things that happen below the surface. Uh, but if we didn’t have that, I don’t think we would, we would be talking today about that.
[00:21:17]Kellan Finney: So the, the nine month uh, contract negotiation with the insurance company was really years in the making to get all the data to
[00:21:24]Bryan Fields: make Oh yeah. Such a smooth
[00:21:27]Alvaro Torress: conversation. Yeah. Sometimes I think, um, some people forget how difficult it is to get these things. Cause when you talk about health is about responsibility, uh, we’ve invested a lot of capital, a lot, a lot of time and effort to build, you know, our systems, uh, data.
[00:21:42] How do we collect it every day? The doctors, the training, it doesn’t work all the time. I mean, when we started in Columbia, we sold eight units the first month. Right. And you have to be patient because you have to see how those eight units work because some of the patients, their families don’t want them to get into [00:22:00] cannabis.
[00:22:00] It’s a lot of breaking barriers that you’re doing. Um, but thankfully we did because I don’t think right now, if we hadn’t, I don’t think there would be a market in Colombia, even if it was insured because. Doctors are, patients in Latin America don’t know what it does, and doctors don’t know how to prescribe it.
[00:22:19] So you have to show them all the time, the evidence, we even have evidence, Helen, of patients that we have taken out of cannabis. And when you start to show that you realize that these guys are being responsible, some patients don’t respond well to it, and then you have to start doing programs on taking them out of it.
[00:22:38] Not give them opioids, but thinking about something else. And that, for example, when we start showing that that meant, okay, there’s a big responsibility here. These guys are not just selling cannabis. Um, and so, you know, it too, it did take two and a half years, but, um, I wanna think about the next two. . I love that
[00:22:58]Bryan Fields: I, I think like sometimes we [00:23:00] forget how hard it is to change people’s minds. And of course, like we can talk about the United States and how, um, difficult that has been because people have their own self-interests that are leading to decisions that sometimes don’t represent what the data actually says.
[00:23:11] But I wanna stay with what you said in Columbia about the data side. And I know you said you don’t do the, the cultivation of it. So are you importing the, the cannabis and what’s the status with flour? How does that work? No,
[00:23:21]Alvaro Torress: we had, uh, we have our own cultivation facility. That’s how we started the company.
[00:23:26] It’s a small facility of 80, almost 80,000 square feet of grow. I mean, compared to what Colombians have, there’s 2000 million hectares of cannabis being grown for medical purposes. I think the last three, four months, the decision that we’ve been making also is, well, that’s not the focus of our business.
[00:23:45] So we’ve been winding down a lot of that operation, which also reduces a lot of our cash burn, uh, and talking to third parties here in Colombia. Because I think most people will recognize the in this country, in Latin America [00:24:00] is, uh, potentially very big or one of your largest clients. Um, but you know, we’ve been now winding all of that because I, I think that now that we know what we want to sell, uh, how we put in the, in the hands patients, the production aspect of it, uh, is never necessarily something that interests us.
[00:24:19] I mean, three years ago, Brian, if you, we had talked, I, I would’ve told you that, you know, when we started the company with my partners, we always thought about companies like Danon, you know, the dairy company and how they don’t need any cows, right? But so how do we evolve into that, which is why we never build a very big facility.
[00:24:39] I think it’s about quality control, et cetera. But our European operations showed us that we can do it without touching the plant, and we can grow as long as you know what’s in the product. What do you want in the product, and how do you get doctors to prescribe it? So let’s,
[00:24:55]Bryan Fields: let’s, let’s go to the European assets, cuz I think that’s really fascinating and I, I can’t wait to do it.
[00:24:58] Compare and contrast with the [00:25:00] United States. So what assets does Sky Run have in Europe?
[00:25:03]Alvaro Torress: Well, I think first and foremost people, I know it sounds like a cliche, um, but if you think of a company like Karon, nine months, getting these type of contracts done, and it really does, does take a lot of knowledge about the market.
[00:25:18] Uh, so our team is fully European, which is very important. You have to understand the different types of cultures. Um, and I’ll start with that because I don’t think I, I will be here talking to you without, you know, Franci and Fred and all the rest of the team that we have there. Uh, and I think secondly, now that you understand what the market is, you understand the rules, uh, because these are very regulated markets, you need to understand how it.
[00:25:40] Uh, not without cutting any corners, which is not something that we like to do at all. Uh, and now lately we acquired a distribution company in Germany called the Pharma Drug. And the reason we acquire this because just like in America, data matters, the closer you are to the patients, the more data points you can [00:26:00] collect and all that allows us to come up with a better product.
[00:26:03] Um, and pharma drug has all the data from all the pharmacies that, that we go to, and that allows us to understand what the market is headed, what the price points are, uh, what are the patients looking for. And then with that information you can try to go back and figure out what type of supply you need.
[00:26:21] Um, and then in UK we opened a Senia clinic as well, almost a year ago, a little bit more, because in the UK we see the same challenge. Patients want cannabis, medical, cannabis. There’s not enough doctors prescribing it. So we, what we did is took the model from Colombia. We put in the uk. Uh, it’s all virtual, but that’s become a very important channel for us.
[00:26:44] Uh, but it also allows the patient to have a follow up. The same things we do in Colombia with a different market, and then figure out how the supply chain works through pharma drug, which dispenses the product. So right now we have a very solid European group. Um, it’s very [00:27:00] non-planned touching. We actually don’t cultivate ourselves.
[00:27:03] It’s more about. Access to the patients. So in the UK we could have a clinic. So let’s get a clinic in Germany, we cannot have clinics, but we can have distribution. Let’s go after that and then compile all of that information so we can create a sustainable business. So, uh, we’ve been in Europe for almost more than, no, we started three years ago.
[00:27:22] I don’t think anybody would’ve given me a scent. Uh, what does a Colombian based company have to do in Europe? Uh, now everybody’s, what does a European company have to do in Colombia? . So, , you sort of, uh, I’m gonna have to change my accent to, um, more Spanish or German or , um, to see if we can get that. But, uh, it’s, it’s really interesting the amount of.
[00:27:43] Data that we can collect. Our science officer is in Spain. It’s actually a Spanish citizen. So we can combine the, the Latin American culture with European culture and try to figure out how do we start polishing more information and that allows us to build up very good credibility with the [00:28:00] patients.
[00:28:00] They don’t really mind if you’re selling cannabis in Colombia, Penn, Brazil. But when you’re talking about a company that’s able to generate all this information and science and evidence, that matters a lot. How well do
[00:28:12]Kellan Finney: you think the, the data transfers like country to country and like culture to culture?
[00:28:18] Is it seamless or do you notice like certain differences?
[00:28:22]Alvaro Torress: Well, uh, it started, the beginning of it wasn’t that easy, right? Because. We’re talking, let’s say in the Europe, we’re talking more about flour and Latin America is more oils. Now. We are already selling flour in the, in, in the European market. Uh, which is why we decided to have, let’s call it the consolidation of all these sciences in Spain, uh, with our chief, um, scientific officer.
[00:28:48] Because every country has its own needs of what they need to publish. But we also need to understand that those needs are more important if we can figure out what the [00:29:00] needs of the entire, let’s call worldwide view are. Um, in Columbia, nobody probably cares about flower base used in uk. Right? But if you’re having the conversation regard regarding a adult using Colombia one day, that starts to matter.
[00:29:16] So it seems very seamless now. I mean, we have a centralized data system. Anybody can access it and, and the decision of what type of products. What type of research we’ll start doing comes from Spain, like from our team in Spain, to try to understand what we need. If you look at, for example, in Colombia, the most important part today is pharmacoeconomic studies.
[00:29:40] Let’s show that it’s cheaper, et cetera. And that’s better. That’s a different type of study than what we need in uk, which is more doctors to prescribe. So we need to ha start having more evidence regarding the current use of cannabis and how patients are doing better. Uh, so it’s a very simplest transition now and thankfully Gimo speaks many languages, so [00:30:00] it helps a lot
[00:30:01] Um, and at the beginning it’s just a matter of everybody wants to, everybody always wants to do research, but it has to be something. Applies to the company in terms of how do we create more markets or how do we get governments behind it? There will be a time, Brian, where we’ll be researching new products and u SKUs, but today the game is about with what we have or what’s available, how do we, how do we break those barriers?
[00:30:27] So
[00:30:27]Bryan Fields: just to reiterate, to make sure I understand correctly, when your team goes into a new country, you have to identify the problem that the regulators need and then work backwards with the data in order to prevail a convincing argument specific for that country to help access for a wider group. Did I understand that correctly?
[00:30:43] Yes, Brian.
[00:30:44]Alvaro Torress: I think regulation is the number one priority in cannabis. It’s, I mean,
[00:30:47]Bryan Fields: it’s, it’s quite challenging to understand that you need to identify what the problem is first in order to put the resources behind it to solve the problem that you need to figure out what the problem is.
[00:30:58]Alvaro Torress: But you know, Brad, that’s how we, we [00:31:00] started in, in Europe, you know, three years ago when, when I met Francie and the team and, and she brought the team, uh, everybody was talking about Colombia exporting chip flour to, to Europe.
[00:31:09] And the first conversation we’re having is there’s no way that Colombia can actually do this in the next three years with a quality product that patients want. Right? So what you’re saying is not just about EO gmp, it’s about quality, but patient sees a mold in a product, they’re gonna destroy your Reddit, but it’s also about the shelf life and also how fast the trends in cannabis consumption change.
[00:31:39] When you’re talking about a flower market, it’s not like oils. No one day is go glue. Next day is Hiku, right? So I’m probably using those names wrong, so Please,
[00:31:48]Bryan Fields: you’re right. I like that. That works with me.
[00:31:51]Alvaro Torress: But that’s how we started. Let’s figure out the regulation. , it cannot be Columbia. Where can we source it?
[00:31:56] What type of product can we source? And it does take time. But then you [00:32:00] realize, you know, when you go to market patients, that’s what they want. Um, and I think most of cannabis companies have always been solving for what they can sell, uh, what they can produce. And sometimes e even ourselves, we, we believe our own BS about what do we have that’s so great, but the market is thinking about something else.
[00:32:24] So those companies who are able to solve for that demand, uh, like in the states, you know, it’s plenty of examples, right? But they understand the consumer very well and then they work backwards. It’s just, of course, regulatory wise, it may be a little bit simpler, , but it is this successful companies always have to think about what the patients need, not what they want.
[00:32:45] Cuz otherwise nobody would want, uh, an iPhone have what they came out with it, but what they need. And if you figure that out, then you can have a very successful business. So can you
[00:32:54]Bryan Fields: currently export cannabis from Columbia to
[00:32:57]Alvaro Torress: Europe? There are [00:33:00] companies I understand that have been able to ship flour to Europe right now and to Israel.
[00:33:05] That’s not really, our focus is not to export. And so I I, we, we don’t do it. We export finished product to Brazil and Peru, uh, but not to, uh, not to Europe just because the quality standards are very different and I think there’s plenty better companies that can do that for us. Uh, but there has been, there have been column companies exporting already.
[00:33:27] I don’t know if they have exported finished product or more like raw materials. Um, maybe one day they’ll get there. Um, . I just, that was not really our intention from the get-go.
[00:33:37]Bryan Fields: Sure. And the reason I ask is because as your company continues to expand economies of scale and relying on vendors across your organization are really critical to have sustainable quality control products.
[00:33:47] So that’s why I was wondering is if down the line, if there’s an opportunity to have that scalable feature where you grow in one country and you can kind of export across all your assets
[00:33:55]Alvaro Torress: across the world. Yes. I, I think we, we can and, and uh, what Kai has been able [00:34:00] to do, particularly with this insurance thing in Colombia, like, um, I said it before, but we are recognized as decline to have, and I don’t mean to sound again, um, not to humble, but.
[00:34:13] I, I have, we have invested a lot of time to getting that done. It’s, it’s, it’s
[00:34:16]Bryan Fields: confidence. We, like, we like to call it being confident, , but as you should though, right? You’ve achieved a substantial goal and you’ve changed the minds and, and influenced a big step forward. And you’re the only ones that can claim to have done that.
[00:34:29] So, hey, you should be proud of what you’ve accomplished. So
[00:34:32]Alvaro Torress: I think we, we are, uh, certainly recognized for that. A lot of companies understand the European footprint. Uh, we will be agnostic regarding that as well. Uh, the, the, the, the things that we think about that are also the change in regulatory environment.
[00:34:48] Yeah. Um, I don’t, I don’t know, but I think in five years, uh, cannabis, uh, shipping across the world will probably be a little bit harder I think [00:35:00] every country will want to have its own product and they will probably try to make it more difficult to get product cheaper from outside. And I say, it because I think about Mexico, Brazil, right?
[00:35:12] Uh, now you’re, you’re, you’re hearing about a lot of UK companies who are cultivating the UK and Brexit. And, and so I, I think about things like lead times, for instance. That’s, those are the type of things that we think about. How do we improve lead times? How do we get the product faster from one place to the next?
[00:35:30] What are the customs type of things that we need to make sure that, uh, we don’t have a product problem with? Um, and maybe one data Colombian market will be able to service that. Um, but it, it, there’s a lot of challenges right now to get that good product in the hands of a patient. But of course, everybody here knows that if we keep growing our European business and we can find the right supply chain, no, why don’t we source it in Colombia from a EUGMP facility?
[00:35:57] For sure. . Um, I just [00:36:00] don’t know yet what, how the timeframe for all of these things will be. Um, and God knows, you know it, Mexico one day does come online. there will be a be powerful player to compete with. Well, I’m
[00:36:13]Bryan Fields: gonna have to save my follow up question cuz that is our prediction question for later. So we’ll have to hold that, that question.
[00:36:18] I’m gonna ask you for a, a specific timeline for that. So let’s talk about the perspective on the United States. Obviously the United States has made a ton of noise and likes to put themselves at the center of almost all the conversations. So do you use the US as a reference and how do you evaluate opportunities here in the states and what’s happening?
[00:36:35]Alvaro Torress: Well, I use it as a reference in the sense that, um, you see every state opening avenue for medical like Florida, that you realize like there’s a very big market every. If you can just break those barriers. You also have to realize that Florida has been legal for how many, like it’s not yesterday now. It’s been legal for many, many years.
[00:36:56] Just today. The last three years have been, uh, growing up [00:37:00] more. So I, I also look at it, Sam, but we do some of these things. These are the markets that are gonna be like Floyd that five years ago. That’s, that’s where we are today. Um, so I, I really look at that in terms of the product mix, the, um, the, the, the easiness quote unquote, to get these products, how the taboos have been reduced.
[00:37:21] And I think all of that cascades down and eh, eastwards so that le more and more people are less wary of cannabis because they see the United States as such a big story. On the other hand, of course, you are also realizing that we live in markets, Europe and Latin America that are taking medical cannabis as a true f d A type of.
[00:37:44] Product, which means that the quality standards are way higher than the United States because of course, if one day the F FDA decides to really regulate the CBD industry, God knows how many millions of inventory will have to be dropped off the shelves, right? Because [00:38:00] none of these products are f FDA approved.
[00:38:02] Well, except no, the, the ones that we know of, F px, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so that’s always, sometimes of a challenge because, you know, we talk about gummy bears. Yeah. Gummy bears are amazing. Yeah. But in our countries is a food and there’s regulations for it. But, um, it, it does make the compensation easier with authorities when it comes to, Hey, uh, maybe you should also be able to regulate this.
[00:38:25] Look at what’s happening in California. So, I, I take it that a a lot as an example, but I also think about this. You asked me about the, how cannabis will be shipped worldwide. And I think about the fight that you cannot take cannabis from Florida to California. , uh, even within one country. So I think the challenges of all of these you’re seeing in the states, why would the go of Massa, Massachusetts in the winter allow for cheap Oregon TC to come in and destroy jobs?
[00:38:52] Um, and those type of things. I, I think about when we look at this international supply chain strategy, it, it
[00:38:59]Bryan Fields: turns [00:39:00] out if you are a medical cannabis user and you have a back pain here in New York, when you leave New York, your back pain leaves and you don’t have to worry about that problem anymore because it’s only subject to New York.
[00:39:09] So, uh, turns out that’s a, a singular state problem. So is there conversations about, uh, let’s say synergies with American companies about changing of information and alliance partnerships as the game continues to evolve from a global standpoint?
[00:39:22]Alvaro Torress: Well, you know, in the last four weeks I’ve actually had a lot of conversations and emails just, you know, to begin because, uh, people who are in the business, in the me medical cannabis business understand that what we did with the insurance coverage, Columbia is huge.
[00:39:37] Right? Yeah. And how did you get that done? Um, of course it takes years, but how did you get that done and how can we take that model to the states? I’m not talking about transporting cannabis, talking about the model of data. Yeah. And what type of products and who are the right people to talk to? There’s a lot of advocates for this state wise and why, sorry.
[00:39:58] So it’s been, [00:40:00] um, the last four weeks have been quite busy on that front because, you know, there’s a secret sauce, know this, no, nobody knows what it is, but there’s, these guys got something done. Uh, maybe there’s something that we can take to the United States. We can, you know, for, for the medical market, we can actually get that type of insurance coverage.
[00:40:21] And what insurance coverage also means, means that your competition with the black market stops being so one-sided. Because if you can get patients to get it, the quote unquote for free. , then the price points, eh, worse than everybody’s having in California and Canada may no longer apply. Eh, so this is why I have, I’ve been advocating for, for coverage in Colombia for the last three years because if there’s a contract that can produce cannabis cheap, is this one?
[00:40:53] No , like all day, dear , eh, no winters, no, just, it [00:41:00] rains or it rains less . So that’s, I think what’s been interesting the last four weeks. I do see a lot of synergies in taking that model, uh, because, you know, not us taking the product with, certainly Californians don’t need that. You guys have more excuse than anybody.
[00:41:17] But it could be in the sense of this ip, this knowledge that we’ve developed, maybe we can take it somewhere else on a, on a capital efficient way and get other companies to realize, hey, maybe we can get the to and whoever hits that holy grail. , it’s gonna be very successful. Yeah. In, in
[00:41:37]Bryan Fields: essence, you guys
[00:41:38]Kellan Finney: are just kind of a, a data
[00:41:40]Bryan Fields: company, eh?
[00:41:41]Alvaro Torress: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’ve always looked at camo of a healthcare company that manages data. Um, oh, I like that, that
[00:41:47]Bryan Fields: sound, that’s got a better sound to it. .
[00:41:51]Alvaro Torress: But cannabis was a very interesting way to start. But if you think about in the future, um, and we don’t believe in traditional medication cause [00:42:00] we’ve seen the damage it does.
[00:42:01] Uh, one day when the country legalizes psychedelics, we can certainly do the same thing. Yeah. Our company is not about growing cannabis or psychedelics or whatever it is. It’s about using that information to change those, the, the, the dogmas of the way that we’ve been for the last a hundred years, been blind to products that make us feel like zombies and are really bad.
[00:42:24] And that create a, a very bad social fabric. I mean, Colombia. Certainly has suffered a lot from that. So, um, I, I hope one day, and I think this transition that we’re making outta cultivation, uh, will continue to impact people that we, we like to manage that. If I can spend most of my day analyzing data with the European team, I would love that.
[00:42:45] Cuz you start finding nuggets of little things that have been working and how can we make that work better? And we’re gonna be forced to do that a lot more, Kevin, because with this new client, when they’re telling us, why don’t you take care of our patient? That means we have [00:43:00] to know more about that patient, that that patient himself or herself Yeah.
[00:43:04] Or themselves. Because we need to sort of anticipate what that patient’s treatment will be. Uh, it’s a very exciting challenge. Uh, so yeah, da data healthcare, one day we won’t be, we will be talking about candidates as just one product. out of many.
[00:43:20]Kellan Finney: Yeah. Cause the data really is just the first piece in personalized medicine as a as a whole.
[00:43:25] So realistically, you have the opportunity to participate in the healthcare industry as a whole.
[00:43:31]Alvaro Torress: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s why I’m so excited about this client, and that’s why it took us nine months. That’s why they did a tender. Nobody really could understand what we’re trying to do, because these guys at Chiron, at Senia is the name of our clinic.
[00:43:43] They’re not trying to sell US cannabis. They’re trying to get us to give them the patients cannabis
[00:43:59] because [00:44:00] they can
[00:44:07] puncture all these other services so that our quality levels are better. And of course, they’re gonna be rewarded for it, but it’s gonna be their problem too. . So when you can be, you can become an insurance company for the insurance company. I think that’s really what for me will be the holy grail. Um, and this n h s patient, we get covered.
[00:44:29] The first one is also, that’s the route I want to make in three years, hopefully less. Uh, but it’s really about taking care of that. If you really have that point in contact with the patient and you quote unquote own that relationship, um, you know you’re gonna be very successful. You can be very sustainable and then you can be more agnostic about what will work later.
[00:44:54] All I know is that I wanna prescribe opiates, if I can’t avoid it. So, but anything else And [00:45:00] science will evolve, I think. Yeah, and canopies will evolve a lot in that know-how as. .
[00:45:05]Bryan Fields: I think it’s a very different strategy than what we do, we usually see here in America. And I’m glad to hear that some of the operators are reaching out for experience.
[00:45:12] Is that a, a cold phone call? Is that an email? Is that a laro, Hey, we got some issues going on, can you help us? And is that executive to executive or is that someone different on the team?
[00:45:20]Alvaro Torress: I would say it’s like, uh, sandwich. Um, I don’t really do many of those. I gotta argue all my team. They understand all the,
[00:45:36] my role is not, um, is not it. Um, they’re certainly more capable people to, than me than to do that. But, um, the way we’ve been able to do this, I mean, this relationship really started at a conference right when we had our, one of our lead doctors. And then you start trying to have those conversations from the bottom up.
[00:45:58] To convince them that we have the right [00:46:00] infrastructure, that they can ask 10,000 questions about our systems. And that’s when you start talking to the rest of the executives, et cetera. Um, so it’s always both sides. I, I can tell you I’m the least guy who actually has to do any of that. Um, because, you know, I don’t really, uh, really speak the language.
[00:46:16] I’m sure my team, uh, is more qualified to do that. But I think the, the language of data gets everybody excited. Uh, because when you’re able to show it, and, and I love when a client comes back and asks 10,000 questions that we don’t know the answer. Because to get to those questions, we have to answer 1 million questions that nobody else could answer.
[00:46:38] So, exactly. And I, and I said to to, you know, I say, we say to the team, the moment, the moment we’re able to answer all the questions correctly, that means we’re asking the wrong questions. Because you always have to be able to think about why are we missing? And, um, you know, we, we work a lot on that. , but it takes time and, and, and it also takes the patience.
[00:46:59] The [00:47:00] patients are really at the center. They’re the ones making the decision. They’re the ones putting the pressure sometimes, and it takes one, 10, a thousand. And when somebody, the decision makers then say, okay, okay, we gotta go with these guys and look at what they can offer. What is one
[00:47:15]Bryan Fields: factor statistic about the global cannabis landscape that most Americans wouldn’t know?
[00:47:21] What is the, what, what is one factor statistic about operating in the global cannabis landscape that most Americans wouldn’t know?
[00:47:29]Alvaro Torress: Oof. That’s a very good question. Um, , eh, let’s see, let’s see. I would say that, um, from our experience, Hmm, that’s a very good question.
[00:47:49] I would guess that, eh, most people would think that. Colombians are pot smokers [00:48:00] because we’ve, we produce so much of it for, uh, one of the things I always get funny question is that when I say, well, we don’t really smoke that much cannabis, like impossible. You guys have sold so much of it. Mexicans don’t either.
[00:48:14] And they say, well, you know, we’ve been selling all this cannabis to you guys for 50 years, , you know, so we really never had a, a local market. Um, I find that people are more very impressed with the fact that the region itself is not very well known for cannabis use. I love that.
[00:48:31]Bryan Fields: Yeah. When you got started in your, in your journey in the cannabis space, what did you get?
[00:48:35] Right, and most importantly, what did you get wrong?
[00:48:39]Alvaro Torress: I think I’ve gotten a lot more wrong. Things are right, but I think the right ones have had tremendous impact. I think the one thing that I got right first is the people that I work with, um, cuz it takes a special type of person. To go every day and try to find a new battle, you know, and, and break that, break that ground.
[00:48:58] Um, the clinic [00:49:00] idea, I think that strategy has been, uh, even to this day, very unique and has made us, you know, where we are today, um, going into Europe for sure. Um, I mean, Europe is now becoming such an important part of our business, uh, but also Iel helps us diversify the risk a lot, and I’m very proud of the work that we’ve been doing there with, you know, few resources.
[00:49:26] So those three I would say, you know, have been okay. Those, those ideas on the bad one, I could put a whole list of, of things that, that we haven’t done well. I would say the number one ever is, uh, at the beginning, particular, you are always more optimistic than realistic about the market and how fast things can be.
[00:49:47] Of course if you had been more realistic, probably you wouldn’t have done it. But I think sometimes, and I am guilty of that as well, you put a lot of optimism in a lot of these ideas. Um, and I [00:50:00] tell you, for example, we launched a very beautiful, uh, thermo cosmetic line about three years ago. That was our first product.
[00:50:08] Um, I’m very proud of that, even though we had shut it down in the pandemic. But then you start realizing how difficult it’s to get the market that you want, you know, the total addressable market faster in your door, how much you have to spend to introduce a new product and, and how little reward you get for it in the short term.
[00:50:29] But that’s also because you’re thinking optimistically, maybe these markets will happen faster. So I think that’s always been a trade since we started, and I think I’m not alone in, in that conversation, uh, but certainly with a little bit more, I wouldn’t say reality, but. And nudge optimism. You could have probably avoided some, you know, some pitfalls, some mistakes that, that you all do.
[00:50:52] I think the important thing now is that we don’t make as much mistakes as we did before. But I, I would say that that’s very personal. [00:51:00] Um, that optimism, that you’re always thinking things that can be faster, that’s gonna be the right market. And even today, I think about, for example, that that line that, oh my god, yeah, if we had launched 2026 would be huge , but not in 2019.
[00:51:17] And it sucks because a lot of effort, a lot of love, a lot of people worked and we built something really unique. The pandemic really hurt us, but maybe that’s also what we needed to realize. Okay, maybe CBD cosmetics is not what people want in the future. Um, now you just don’t realize that it’s not right.
[00:51:34] So I would say that, that, that, that encompasses a whole list of errors and mistakes, but it’s always been that way. But hopefully now less than ever.
[00:51:45]Bryan Fields: That was really well said. All right. Before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?
[00:51:56]Alvaro Torress: Oof, . Um, [00:52:00] I guess you’re always gonna be surrounded by more naysayers than naysayers, and I think that’s part of being an entrepreneur. And you always have to be able to discern which of those are real advice and which of those come from a dark place, uh, because you can get very confused by a lot of advice that just is really there to help you.
[00:52:22] But you also have to be able to listen and listen even to those dark forces and try to understand yourself with the company that you have to build, what makes sense and what doesn’t. But you’re always gonna be everyday suggestions and advice. Most of that advice is not necessarily good
[00:52:51] sometimes, but you also have to be able to look at any of that and, you know, build more confidence in yourself and understand you don’t know it All some of these things may be true, [00:53:00] some of the things may not be true. Uh, but just have the confidence to follow your gut. As long as we understand they’re able to get all of these advice and realize that there’s some truth in all of it.
[00:53:12] But you have to force your own path. Cause, uh, as bad you did all these, I did all these qui things. Uh, I also bet on this getting the clinics right and, and getting this insurance. Um, so you, you’re not always wrong all the time. You always write, listen to the advice, be able to take out all the noise, uh, but also get from that noise what matters, and don’t eat up on the negative energy.
[00:53:37] Because that’s just going to consume you all, all every day.
[00:53:41]Bryan Fields: Really Well said. Alright, prediction time.
[00:53:45]Alvaro Torress: Oh, , Alvaro. My hair will grow back again. ,
[00:53:50]Bryan Fields: we already started this one, but this is if, if, when or how does cannabis become a global game?
[00:53:59]Alvaro Torress: Oof. [00:54:00] So I don’t think there’s any doubt about Dave. It will be a global game.
[00:54:06] Um, when I would say not in the next five years, not in the next five years. And how it will be. I think we’re gonna have a very clear medical business and you’re gonna have a very clear adult use business. And the reason we’ve been fighting about all this insurance is because that’s the best way to separate both worlds.
[00:54:34] Um, but I don’t think it’s gonna happen that soon because, eh, we’re, I mean, there’s many drugs even that have been around for 50 years that not approved in, in every country to this day. Um, but the problem with the, the, the issue with cannabis is that we mix a lot of things in that conversation. When a country starts to legalize cannabis, Brian, they always think about cultivation first.
[00:54:59] So that’s why I [00:55:00] talk about these barriers of entry. Um, they never really think about the end demand. Then they realize the end demand is important. But those are two different worlds. Those are two different worlds. Uh, cultivating and, and giving to a patient a very different thing. So I don’t think it’s gonna be that level the next five years, I think it’s gonna be very regional.
[00:55:21] So you’ll have that time. North America, United States, you will see some supply move for sure, but that’s not really where the game is gonna be at. I think it’s gonna be about, you know, more development, more ip, more patience. And I think more and more the more and more grows, maybe some of the countries are gonna be more skeptical about opening it up the doors to everybody else.
[00:55:45] I mean, the United States is 15 countries in one. Right. when it comes to cannabis. Yep. So imagine getting that first and then we can think about globalization. There’s no globalization that happens without the United States for sure. It, it has never [00:56:00] happened. It will in any industry. It will never happen without the United States.
[00:56:03] So we gotta pay attention to that. God, we
[00:56:06]Bryan Fields: are really self-serving. Huh? Kevin ?
[00:56:09]Alvaro Torress: No, no, it’s not that. It’s, I think that the United States, of course, is a massive market. They changes the regulations, the states open up the regulations everywhere. Yes. The moment the cannabis is no longer, if you ever say back passes, ever, the re repercussions for the rest of the world are huge in terms of banking access.
[00:56:31] Uh, you know, the, the way that we can finance us, these projects, uh, how I can go to the bank and make sure they don’t close my own personal bank account, right? So it’s not just about the, uh, the product side. It’s about everything that makes the United States so powerful in the global scene. There’s no United Nations, uh, the schedule of cannabis without United States look at, even Germany is talking about legalization, but they still have to [00:57:00] go to the European Union.
[00:57:01] The United Nation still categorizes cannabis as a scheduled one drug. But, so I think the United States has to lead that example. And then from a supply chain side, of course, the massive market. Uh, but then. United States can export a lot of that, know-how in product development they have. United States have more know-how than anybody in the world regarding product, uh, use for sure.
[00:57:24] But that cannot be exported right now. So I think that’s, you know, I, I don’t mean to say in a bad way. I, uh, I, I was born in United States by the way. So, um, I just think that in any part of the world, globalization is always being led by United States and this one has to be led as well. And meanwhile, I will, you know, we will keep owning these two markets and when that opens up, then, you know, we’ll, we’ll say hi from a, from the same high level distance.
[00:57:53] Yes.
[00:57:53]Bryan Fields: I wanted to make sure to take the shot at the United States cuz they are frustrating me. So, ke uh, do you wanna take a, do
[00:57:59]Kellan Finney: you wanna take a swing? [00:58:00] I mean, Alro I think kind of touched on all the main points and I don’t think it’s gonna be anytime quick. I think that maybe in the next 10 years you’ll see.
[00:58:08] A global market that’s similar to what’s going on in the US right now. Right. You’ll see certain countries, right, like Portugal or or other, more progressive countries, will have a full adult used market. It’ll be very robust, like a, a California, if you will. And then you’re gonna have certain countries that are like, uh, a West Virginia where there is absolutely no cannabis.
[00:58:29] Right. You can’t get it. It’s, it’s hard. Right. Like the Texas medical program as well. Right. Very challenging. Um, and I think that needs to play out globally and that’s probably gonna take 10 years. Um, and then in 20 years, I think in 20 years it’ll be a lot more destigmatized. I think that, I don’t think, I don’t even think 20 years is enough time to say that it’ll be comparable to, to how alcohol is treated globally, maybe 50 years.
[00:58:57] I would say like we need a couple more [00:59:00] generations to go through to actually treat cannabis on the same platform as, as alcohol. But uh, yeah, I think at the end of the day, the only catalyst is globally is gonna have to be from the US rescheduling it. What do you think?
[00:59:14]Alvaro Torress: Go ahead, ALO. I agree with everything you’re saying.
[00:59:17] I was saying to, um, I always call up with this example when they ask me, Ima, I love movies, American movies in particular. I’m a movie file. And if you, you, have you seen the movie Smokey and The Bandit, right? Mm-hmm. . Okay, so the entire, that’s 1977. The entire premise of that movie is to bring alcohol from one state to the next, right?
[00:59:38] And this is after 60 something years of alcohol being legalized and the entire premise you’re being chased across state lines cuz you’re bootleg, you’re trying to bring, uh, illegal alcohol. And so you think about that like, An industry that strong. And if you think about globalization of the alcohol industry, it’s called beer.
[00:59:58] It really only started 15 [01:00:00] years ago, right? But Budweiser is now part of Aian company, but before that, there was no big conglomerates. Every beer was in its own region. So even that, when we try to accelerate, I think the problem with cannabis, you say, Kelly, is that we, we want to accelerate a business process that takes decades in the making.
[01:00:22] And we want to accelerate into two because, oh, the, the alcohol companies are now getting it together. Yeah. But they were like, they were not like that in 1995. No, no. So you had Stellar, you had Budweiser, you had Sam Miller, and you had Bra Brazil. It took a couple of guys from Brazil to really do it 15 years ago, and we wanted it all to happen in cannabis tomorrow.
[01:00:47] Um, I think that is probably, when I talk about optimism and reality, you have to really think about those examples cuz it, it doesn’t happen that.
[01:00:57]Bryan Fields: No. And as we’ve seen in New York, [01:01:00] things take a lot of time and hopefully in 20 years the market has finally opened up. Right. How you like that ke? Yeah, I like that.
[01:01:07] I think the most important thing to remember is that like, exactly like you said, that it’s not gonna take two decades. It’s going to take a ton, a ton of decades in order to get down the walls of prohibition and to get the inter, inter global supply chain set up. United States right now has fragmented markets from state by state, and we need to get our act together first before we can look to the other aspects of the globe and make good decisions.
[01:01:29] Because right now we gotta, uh, got us problem and we really need to get that together. But I think one of the areas that it most excites me of are, is that the data aspect of your team is bringing together, because that is what’s focused here in the United States is missing, I think is more, uh, focused on data to change decisions because we need to start having data-based decisions to help people make better decisions.
[01:01:48] And I think what your team’s doing will really make a big ca case way and hopefully that change some of the lawmakers here in America.
[01:01:54]Alvaro Torress: Thank you Brian. Yes. That’s the plan. That’s the plan.
[01:01:57]Bryan Fields: So Avaro our listeners, they want to get in touch, they [01:02:00] wanna learn more about Chiron and they wanna read some of the data.
[01:02:02] Where can they find ya?
[01:02:03]Alvaro Torress: So, oh, I mean, myself personally, I’m always available LinkedIn, uh, the company investors.ca, chiron.ca. Um, and yeah, no, I think I use my LinkedIn account very often, uh, to transmit a lot of these things that we do. It’s mostly always a shout to my teams. That’s the most important part of our company.
[01:02:24] Um, but certainly a lot of these conversations that the United States have been going through LinkedIn, um, I’m very active there. Um, just try to understand and try to tell everybody how great a work we do takes time to. Uh, but if you look at the latest, you see all the posts that we made on, on how big a deal this is for the Colombian News media.
[01:02:45] Um, I don’t think, you know, since CNN did Sam, subject Gupta, sorry, his name Gupta. Many years ago they barely put out something on can. But here it’s every day there’s news about it and that’s very exciting. Yeah,
[01:02:59]Bryan Fields: that’s really [01:03:00] exciting. We’ll link it all in the show notes. Thanks for taking the
[01:03:02]Alvaro Torress: time. Thank you, Brian.
[01:03:03] Appreciate it. Kevin. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
