Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
Today’s cannabis industry is not how it will operate in the future.
Trulieve dominance in Florida is well known, but most fail to realize the critical importance of optionality and flexibility in their strategy, specifically the hub and spoke model.
With new markets such as Pennsylvania, Maryland, Georgia and Connecticut set to come online and footholds in key markets Arizona and Florida, Trulieve is positioned to grow & navigate the unknowns, which is Cannabis.
This week on The Dime, we interview Kim Rivers, CEO of Trulieve, to discuss
- How Kim is studying the rollback of alcohol of prohibition to set up Trulive for future scenarios
- What is Cannabis 2.0
- The Integration of the largest M&A in Cannabis
- Florida Adult Use, Social Equity, and Home grow update.
- And so much more
About Trulieve:
Trulieve is an industry-leading, vertically integrated cannabis company and multi-state operator in the U.S., with established hubs in the Northeast, Southeast, and Southwest, anchored by leading market positions in Arizona, Florida, and Pennsylvania. Trulieve is poised for accelerated growth and expansion, building scale in retail and distribution in new and existing markets through its hub strategy. By providing innovative, high-quality products across its brand portfolio, Trulieve delivers optimal customer experiences and increases access to cannabis, helping patients and customers to live without limits. Trulieve is listed on the CSE under the symbol TRUL and trades on the OTCQX market under the symbol TCNNF.
Trulieve Links:
https://www.instagram.com/trulieve_/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/trulieve/
https://www.trulieve.com/
https://twitter.com/trulieve
https://twitter.com/rivers_kim
#TCNFF #Trulieve # Potstocks
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[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: what’s up guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Thes and with me as always, this Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest, Kim River, c e o of Tru Leaf. Kim, thanks for taking the time. How you doing today?
[00:00:10]Kim Rivers: I’m doing great. Thanks so much for having me, guys.
[00:00:12] Appreciate
[00:00:13]Bryan Fields: it. Excited diving in. Kellen, how are you doing?
[00:00:15]Kellan Finney: I’m doing awesome. Really excited to talk to Kim and, uh, looking forward to trying to hold
[00:00:19]Bryan Fields: the West Coast down over here. Yeah, Kim, so just for the record, Kell and I have a little east coast, west coast battle, and I know you have your Southern roots, but if you had to choose a coast, which one would you choose?
[00:00:29]Kim Rivers: Oh, east Coast, all the way. Baby
[00:00:32]Bryan Fields: put the record stated on East Coast. So Kim, for our listeners, they’re very familiar with what you do, but I think what they don’t get to do is get a peek behind the curtain of what it’s like to run the largest US cannabis company. Can you give us a day-to-day basis of what a day is like for Kim
[00:00:48]Kim Rivers: Rivers?
[00:00:49] Oh, man. Um, sure. I mean, every day is a little bit different. That’s one of the things I absolutely love about being in this role and, um, having the pleasure of being, um, c e O of of Tru leave. [00:01:00] You know, today, as an example, um, we started off with, um, meetings. My day is typically filled with a lot of, um, a lot of conversations, um, and a lot of meetings that range really a gamut of topics.
[00:01:11] And so, um, you know, today we had our executive meetings, so it was a time for us to touch base as an executive team to go over our strategic goals as well as get an update from finance in terms of how we’re tracking against some of our initiatives and how we see those playing out. For this quarter, but really in, for it’s long term and midterm and short term, um, from that respect.
[00:01:31] Um, and then after that, um, let’s see, I had another, um, conversation around expansion and what we’re doing in certain markets that we’re gonna be bringing online. Um, making sure that we’re all good, um, from that perspective. Um, and then of course preparing a little bit for, um, this conversation. Um, and then, uh, you know, talking to folks on some interviews today.
[00:01:51] Um, so it really does really vary from, from day to day. Um, you know, a lot of, um, I’d say planning and projections and really, um, [00:02:00] strategic based conversations in terms of what we’re doing in the decisions we’re making, doing we’re making today, and how those will impact, um, tomorrow along with what I call, um, you know, swing through meetings.
[00:02:10] That’s kind of a true leave turn, meaning that, um, we talk a lot about, you know, you put plans in motion, but being very disciplined about making sure that. Take the time to analyze the results and take away lessons that we’ve learned from those actions. And so, for example, this morning in Florida, it was a hundred percent a data-driven, um, conversation around what we’re doing and what we’ve done around the holidays, how those performed, and what we’ve learned, um, what our takeaways are and how that’s impacting and affecting, uh, positioning on a, on a near term and a midterm basis.
[00:02:42] And so, um, you know, and so I say follow through, right? It’s kind of the, a golf term or, um, you know, a, a tennis term or what have you, right? It’s, it’s about the follow through. So, um, cause otherwise, I think that as a large organization specifically, you know, you can get caught in the just. You know, rinse, repeat, or day-to-day or, right.
[00:02:58] Let’s just keep going. Um, [00:03:00] and it’s very easy to do that in cannabis because our pace is so frenzied. Um, but you know, really if we, if we don’t take a take a minute and, um, step back and really dive in, um, to ask the question in terms of why, and did this do it, we thought it was going to do, why or why not?
[00:03:14] Um, celebrate the wins, but also, um, have opportunity for learning. Um, we think that’s super critical. So, um, part of today was spent on that as well. , uh,
[00:03:22]Kellan Finney: one y that I’ve been really curious about has been the Harvest Health acquisition. Mm-hmm. , uh, we were chatting earlier and you mentioned, uh, in your previous life you were an m and A attorney.
[00:03:31] Yeah. Uh, I’m curious how much that experience affected the due diligence, the execution, and the integration of Harvest
[00:03:38]Bryan Fields: Health with truly
[00:03:39]Kim Rivers: Yeah. I mean, it doesn’t hurt right, ? So, um, you know, I think that, um, you know, I think that, uh, for me, yes, I’m a recovering, I say that a lot. I’m a recovering attorney. Um, I was on, um, m and a Insec Securities and it’s m and a in securities work, um, for a while.
[00:03:53] And then on as an entrepreneur also was heavily involved in, um, deal work and building portfolios and then [00:04:00] repositioning those and selling those, um, and the hospitality space primarily. And so, um, certainly, you know, um, large acquisitions, um, are not something that is unusual, um, for me. So I think that it assisted in the sense that it wasn’t.
[00:04:15] You know, sure. It’s a huge deal. Right? But it’s, um, I, I kind of understood going in what it was gonna look like, the mechanics, right? What we needed to be, how we need to be organized, what we need to be looking for, how we need to be thinking about, um, the, um, at least from a structural process perspective, um, the transaction.
[00:04:31] So I think that that certainly helped, um, you know, early on, and I think really my time as an attorney, um, and did big, big acquisitions representing Georgia Pacific and some other very, very large, large companies. Um, what struck me during that period of time is that I noticed sort of differences in terms of strategies and approach during deal negotiation, and then immediately following, um, a deal closing.
[00:04:55] Um, because obviously at, at that point then we were no longer involved necessarily, but in the [00:05:00] process, right? We’re very, very instrumentally involved as, as a lawyer, as legal counsel. And I noticed that the companies that, um, I saw. Where the deals continued to really be, um, beneficial over a long period of time, worked very hard to, um, make sure that the negotiation process and the setup, moving into closing between call it sign and close was amicable, was inclusive, and, um, had a collaborative feel.
[00:05:24] And I think that, you know, oftentimes, um, in a, in a deal, right, things can get, um, adversarial. That’s not unusual, right? That’s not unusual for issues to come up. That’s certainly expected. But I think how you handle those and how you set the teams up for success through that process can make all the difference.
[00:05:43] Because if you’re. At battle and at war and it’s non-collaborative at the end of it, right? These folks are gonna be your partners . So it becomes very difficult cuz one day, right, you’re, you’re yelling or you know you’re upset and then the next day, right, you’re supposed to be in an org structure together and building this the [00:06:00] future of this combined organization.
[00:06:01] And so I would say that really was. Probably one of the biggest learnings, um, that I carried over into, um, the, the, and the team carried over on the, through the leadership and of the, of the Har Harvest closing. Um, we began immediately with a small group of business leaders, um, meeting really, Twice a week, which then went to every day, um, during the week, right as we approached closing, working through business issues, making sure that the business decisions were driving as opposed to the lawyers driving, which is kind of funny coming from a lawyer, but not all lawyers are there to see a deal closed.
[00:06:36] Right? Um, and so just making sure that, again, we had collaboration and that we really understood each other’s perspectives so that, you know, at the end of it, we, we did come out a, a stronger team and, you know, happy to say that all, but the, um, former Harvesty o are still with our organization and are very meaningful contributors.
[00:06:54] They were, um, you know, on the call this morning as part of the executive team, um, to the combined organization. And I think that talent [00:07:00] retention, um, at the top is, is super critical. Um, as we think about, you know, trickle down effects and, um, the talent that we wanna retain throughout the. , was it
[00:07:09]Bryan Fields: a 2.1 billion acquisition?
[00:07:12]Kim Rivers: Uh, well, I mean, you have to be the share exchange. I mean, that was a reported price right. At the time. Um, there was some movement, so it became less than that, um, at closing, um, because we, it was a sh it was a fixed share ratio to actually, for just that reason, to make sure that Right as valuation shifted, um, that the integrity of the, of the deal remained and neither party Right.
[00:07:33] Was kind of equal footing from what we had negotiated. But yeah, it was a pretty, it was a pretty large transaction. The largest
[00:07:38]Bryan Fields: one in cannabis still to date, correct. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , that’s great that, that’s what I wanted to confirm was to make sure that is still the largest one to date, . Are there additional challenges that were specific to cannabis that you hadn’t faced prior that kind of surprised you along the.
[00:07:53]Kim Rivers: I don’t think anything that surprised me necessarily. I mean, obviously it’s state by state, so, um, you know, we had to go [00:08:00] through the, um, regulatory right requirements of every state for transfer, and those are very different from state to state. So it was a lot of work on the, um, licensing and regulatory teams for sure.
[00:08:13] Um, a lot of coordination around, you know, the, the win and how, and, you know, had to fly, um, out to California to one city to get fingerprinted and interviewed as an example. Um, you know, so there, there were all kinds of little nuances. Um, you know, the process in Nevada is extremely robust and takes a very long time, um, because of their gaming background, right?
[00:08:34] In terms of how they, how they, um, view cannabis licenses. Um, so I mean, certainly there were nuances that were unique to the cannabis industry. I wouldn’t say anything that was surprising necessarily. Um, since we’ve been through, you know, a number of, um, a number of different state regulatory. You know, situations in the past.
[00:08:50] But, um, and you know, last that in that year, um, which is, I could still say last year cause we’re in December, but in that year, um, we actually closed seven m and a [00:09:00] transactions with Harvest being one of them. So, um, we certainly were comfortable in the m and a space. Um, but you know, obviously we had more, more of those.
[00:09:09] It was just more of, um, of the regulatory requirements that, uh, that we had to.
[00:09:14]Kellan Finney: So Harvest Health’s footprint is geographically very different than tree leaves. Yes. Um, that of course plays into your guys’ larger strategy. Were there other kind of, uh, targets that you had been looking at, or was Harvest Health kind of like the prettiest girl at the dance and you guys were just trying to court
[00:09:30]Kim Rivers: her?
[00:09:31] Yeah, so, um, we’re constantly looking at opportunities. Um, we are constantly scanning the landscape, um, you know, proactively. So in terms of what, what we might be looking for. Of course also reactively in terms of folks that may be, you know, putting themselves, um, on the, on the block for sale. So, um, it really is, um, and that’s a discipline that we, that we’ve.
[00:09:53] Exercised throughout Tru Leaf’s entire existence. Um, you know, it’s something that we were, um, that I was [00:10:00] pretty, you know, dead set on early on. I think your pipeline has to remain full. I think you need to be in the conversation. I think you wanna have the phone call when right, someone is, is considering or even thinking about.
[00:10:10] I’m gonna have tons of conversations with folks that are just like, Hey, you know, one day or where was your, you know, where would your head. , you know, about this or that. And so, um, I think it’s, that’s really Im important, um, for an organization. Um, as it relates to Harvest specifically, we had looked at a number of opportunities, um, behind the scenes, right?
[00:10:27] Our board, um, and, and management aligned around our hub strategy where we felt that it was really. Going to be important from a positioning, long-term positioning, um, perspective to have regional hubs set up, um, both for connectivity to customer as well as, um, supply chain and distribution, um, capabilities for the future when the landscape changes, um, which at some point we, we know that it will.
[00:10:51] Um, but also for us to be able to have short term or near term operational efficiencies to be able to share teams between markets, share supplies, and buying power [00:11:00] between markets and really operate again, more, um, more efficiently. And so when we looked at the kind of the map and we looked at the regions, you know, we, we strategically decided that we wanted to have obviously a very strong southeast presence, which we felt pretty comfortable that we can build organically.
[00:11:15] Um, for the most part. I mean, we’ll see how it, how it plays out, but we feel like we’ve got a better. Better than 50% shot. Right. To, to grow that organically with our, um, our strength in, um, in the southeast already, um, the northeast, we had a foothold, right? We had bought, um, some businesses in Pennsylvania.
[00:11:33] Three that we had. Um, we had started a merging together. Um, we were in, um, had a, a little small foothold in, in Connecticut. We were in Massachusetts, we were opening West Virginia organically. So we had some activity happening in, nor in the Northeast, but it wasn’t completely gelled or organized quite yet.
[00:11:50] Um, and then we had a, you know, kind of small, um, small footprint in California. And so, We, um, you know, looked at the markets and really made the decision that we felt [00:12:00] like if we were going to expand beyond the East coast, that really the Southwest corridor was the, made the most sense for us. Um, from a, um, I’ll call it from a politics pro, you know, policy, politics, kind of all of the, all of the reasons as well as not having some of the onerous requirements that some of the other West coast markets have, um, making it, you know, less than desirable from a returns or profitability perspective.
[00:12:23] And so, um, you know, when you put all of those things on the paper, um, harvest jumped out as a natural target for us. Um, we were able to, you know, increase our footprint, um, in Florida. Um, we were able to increase our footprint and really solidify positioning in the Northeast with the number one, um, Affiliate retail network in Pennsylvania.
[00:12:47] Um, we were able to solidify then a, a foothold, really a, a strategic, um, base, if you will, in the southwest with, again, the number one, um, retailer in, uh, the market of [00:13:00] Arizona. Um, we also saw a lot of opportunity to lean into what, um, what Tru Leave does, um, and really to add value, um, to the combined portfolio.
[00:13:10] And so when we think about, you know, our expertise in, and it’s funny because most folks think of us as our retailer, and certainly we have led with retailer retail. We’re the number one retailer in the, I think in the. , maybe in, I guess on the planet , um, as it relates to cannabis, which is weird to say, I would say in the us but someone reminded me this past week at Arcview, they were like, but isn’t it, um, global?
[00:13:30] I was like, oh, yeah, I guess you’re right. Um, , which is cool. . Yeah. Um, so, um, you know, but to support that retail, we also have, um, you know, close to, if not the largest, um, supply chain f. in the space. And so, you know, we operate over 4 million square feet of cultivation. We operate at scale. We understand manufacturing at scale, right?
[00:13:53] Um, you know, in Florida alone, we’re, um, producing and selling, not, not just producing, but selling over a ton of cannabis every single [00:14:00] week. Um, so. , you know, we, we do understand and have, I think, you know, expertise from a supply chain perspective and felt that, you know, harvest had really leaned into retail and had not had the opportunity to, um, focus and or invest as much on supply chain.
[00:14:16] So we felt that we could come in and really, um, you know, solidify or strengthen, um, the. And really insulate, um, positions in those markets. And so all of those things came together. And to be just perfectly candid, I called Steve White and um, so I, that was a pursuit that was in a, they were up for sale.
[00:14:35] That was a me calling him and saying, listen, um, you know, I I, and they had just gone through a turnaround, so they were turning the page on back to profitability, um, at that point, right? They had shed a lot of the, um, the weight that was kind of overhanging in some of their Go-Go acquisition days. And, um, we’re in the right mindset, I think, for a partnership with a company like ours who, [00:15:00] um, also comes from a very, um, you know, I would say financially disciplined, um, background.
[00:15:05] And so just said, you know, listen, I think, you know, we’ve got the capital to come in and really invest in some of these markets to strengthen the position. , um, you know, to secure kind of our vision for the future, which, you know, we, we went over and, um, his board and and himself, um, you know, really were, were very receptive and that’s how the conversation started.
[00:15:26] And, um, you know, I guess you would say the rest is history. It was a long time from then to, that actually started, I think in the last part of the year before, um, we announced the deal. So I think it took us maybe like four or five months to get to a place where we were, um, you know, where, where then, you know, the deal, the deal was announced.
[00:15:45] So, um, and then it was a very quick from, uh, deal announcement to closing again by design to make sure that we had and could channel the momentum of the team, et cetera. Um, and, and get, get through to closing. . [00:16:00] I think that’s so
[00:16:00]Bryan Fields: important cuz I think when people see m and a, they get wrapped up in the headlines and they expect immediate results.
[00:16:05] And I think the one thing that your team recognizes that one plus one doesn’t equal two, it equals three, maybe four. Given that synergies that come together. So synergies unfortunately take some time, right? There’s overlapping of positions and resources and bringing that together. So how, how long does that take and when do you expect to see some of those synergistic results kind of adding to the bottom line and the benefits for.
[00:16:25]Kim Rivers: Yeah, for sure. So I think we’ve been, try, at least we’ve tried to be very transparent in our journey, right? Um, with integration. And you’re right. I mean, this was a huge transaction. There were a lot of folks, um, affected and impacted and, um, it does take time, right? Um, we, um, we knew right away, um, and actually talked about this before closing, that we were likely going to be jettisoning certain assets in certain parts of the Harvest portfolio.
[00:16:51] Um, just because we saw the numbers and it, it didn’t necessarily make sense. We wanted to get closed. own them. Really make sure that we understood, make sure that there [00:17:00] wasn’t some other opportunity that we may have missed. Right. Um, sitting on the sidelines versus being in the driver’s seat. Um, but you’ve seen us right over the last couple of quarters.
[00:17:09] Do just that. Um, you know, we’ve, we’ve closed, um, certain markets that quite frankly just weren’t contributive. Um, they, they were cash flow negative. They were, you know, it just, they just didn’t make sense. The, the footprint wasn’t large enough to be. , you know, to, to, to be efficient. Um, so, you know, to have a, a single site that’s landlocked, that can only produce X amount and you’re only on one part of the supply chain, um, it was either, you know, we were gonna have to make significant investment there to really build an entire market around that particular asset or make the decision to let it go.
[00:17:44] And, um, you know, for us, again, it depends. Is it in a region that we’re trying. You know, that we’re trying to optimize, is it close in proximity? Are there efficiencies that we can gain in other ways? If the answer to those are all no, and there’s no path to profitability, then for us it’s a pretty easy black and white.
[00:17:59] You [00:18:00] know, it’s, it’s, we’ve, we’ve gotta let it go. And so we’ve been executing against that. Um, we also have. Course have been investing in and really spending a lot of, um, time and energy on the supply chain of the legacy harvest assets to bring those up to speed. Um, evaluating those on a site by site basis, same thing, right?
[00:18:19] Is it something that makes sense? There’s, you know, some small assets that have been scattered that they don’t make any, they just don’t make any sense. Um, and you know, it’s, so again, making those decisions and, um, you know, pulling kind of, you know, turning the page, if you will, is what we, is what we say.
[00:18:33] And so really we’re gonna be done, I think with the majority of those activities by year end. That’s certainly been our stated goal, is to get through the, the vast bulk, and I mean over 80, 90% of, of, um, integration by your end, we’re on track to achieve that. Um, and so really coming out of first quarter, um, you should, you know, we should all see, um, and, and I think even, you know, it’s, it’s starting to ramp coming into Q4 and q1, so.
[00:18:59] From [00:19:00] my perspective, you know, everything is on track, right? Um, it’s interesting because of course you’ve got the macro environment now on top of it, and so it sort of muddies the waters. It that sort of, it does, it muddies the waters from a clarity perspective in terms of what’s contributing where and how and, and how is, um, you know, macro contributing to consumer behavior, um, vis-a-vis, um, you know, is integration going well and, and how is that flowing through?
[00:19:26] Um, so I think that can be a bit confusing for folks for sure. Um, but again, I think as from, from my perspective, um, integration and those activities are continuing on, on path and on track. .
[00:19:38]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Those are hard decisions, right? You have to set the team up for success. And sometimes that means recognizing that this is not part of the future, and unfortunately it has to be let go so that the team can be positioned for success.
[00:19:48] And one of the things that I’m most fascinated about truly does, the hub and spoke model announced in 2020 that obviously had a big focus on what the future would look like, not current, current, uh, cannabis operations. Can you kind of expand on what were the thinking [00:20:00] behind that?
[00:20:01]Kim Rivers: Yeah, I mean, I think that, um, you know, we are a, a team and a board that is constantly, um, again, focused on today certainly, and making sure we’re making the most of today, but also on what’s, you know, what’s next and where are we headed, and making sure that we have an identified and communicated path, um, strategic path forward, um, and that we’re making moves and we’re executing against that strategy.
[00:20:27] Um, one of my biggest pet peeves is, you know, to spend, um, time developing a strategic plan, developing strategic goals, and then have it sit on the shelf, um, right in a binder typically, right? That never to be referenced again. And so, um, we spend some pretty concentrated time with one another, um, every year in January, um, where we talk a lot about, you know, where we’re headed and, and where we want to be positioned as an organization.
[00:20:51] And so the hubs spoke model came from that work, um, alongside the board. And, you know, my board is. Fantastic. Um, it’s a [00:21:00] very diverse board, but I mean, just the background and the expertise that they bring to the table. They’re a very involved and engaged board and, um, just really meaningfully contribute to, to our, to our direction.
[00:21:11] And we realized right, that we needed to diversify one. Right. But two and two, we also wanted to make sure. that Because we had seen a number of cannabis companies get so big so fast with really, from, at least from where we sat, no necessarily no necessary rhyme or reason in terms of the why they were going into these markets or what their long-term vision or strategy was.
[00:21:34] Um, as these markets either continued to develop or not. Right? And so, um, you know, for us it was very important to define what does success look like? What is our goal, um, with expansion and how are we gonna measure against that? Again, short term, midterm, long term. And so, um, you know, when we, when we think about it for us, right?
[00:21:55] We are an organization that. Wants to have depth and scale. Um, we believe [00:22:00] that true connectivity to a customer, you know, it goes back to the 20 18, 20 19 days where, you know, everyone had this map slide and it was just pins on a map, and then it was this whole tam, right? Total addressable market. I have, you know, three stores in California, but somehow I’m gonna capture the entire population of California through those three stores, right?
[00:22:21] I mean, we saw it all the time. I mean, oh, I have a, you know, 20,000 square foot cultivation, you know, facility, but it’s in this state. And so that means, right, I have the opportunity to have, you know, these millions of people, right. Enjoy my cannabis products. Like that’s, False. Like that’s a lie, . And so, and it all, I used to get so frustrated going to these conferences and then having to be in meetings and answer the question like, well, where’s your map slide?
[00:22:48] And I’m like, oh my gosh. We’re in a market of 21 million people and we actually have a. The opportunity to service these people. And like, why don’t we ask about how many people can you serve through a register and how are you doing [00:23:00] time, you know, anyway, what’s your efficiency? Like? What, how many products can you produce and how are you distributing those products effectively and efficiently?
[00:23:07] Um, so anyway, as an industry, right, we have some, I think, maturation still to do, um, in, in that, in that arena or that vein. And so, um, you know, for, for us, again, when we thought about expansion, we wanted to make sure that we were holding true to what we knew. Our core values, our core truths are, is that we believe in actually connecting.
[00:23:28] On a meaningful level with as many customers and or patients as possible. Um, we believe in efficiencies of depth and scale in a market. And, um, we also believe in, um, you know, optimizing our footprint for today, but also for the future. And so that really was where the hub and spoke, um, model came from is because in some markets, right, we know that we can’t necessarily get depth in scale like we can in other markets because of the regulatory restrictions on that particular market.
[00:23:56] You can only have X amount of canopy. You can only have x amount of stores. [00:24:00] Okay, so what if you could kind of hybrid it by getting adjacent, you know, so in, in another word, the region had depth and scale and we at least were able to combine again, buying. You know, talent know-how, et cetera. So that as a, as a region, we’re able to get some of those efficiencies.
[00:24:21] So it, it can, can maybe make sense, right? In some of those, in some of those markets, although it doesn’t always. Um, and so, you know, again, I think that, um, you know, for us executing against that has been a north star for us. And, um, when the landscape changes, not if, but when, um, I think we’re going to have, we’re going to be set up for, um, you know, significant success because we understand, um, and I think we’re the only operator that can say this, right?
[00:24:50] We operate. and distribute. I mean, if you just look at our Florida footprint, we’re operating millions of square feet of cultivation and production. We’re putting out a whole catalog of [00:25:00] SKUs, and we’re effectively distributing that every single day to 121 stores across the state. And so, right. Um, we understand we’ve got the systems built, we know how to do it, and you know, where a lot of other operators have operated, you know, 10 stores here, five stores here, you know, 20 stores here.
[00:25:20] And, um, I, I just think when you, when you level up and you really build scale, it’s a whole different, it’s a whole different ballgame. That’s what I can tell you, . There are a lot of, um, a lot of lessons to learn along, along the way.
[00:25:33]Kellan Finney: So with the, with the hub and spoke model, it turns out that the state that you choose to kind of build that infrastructure in is gonna be critical.
[00:25:39] Uh, would you say that regulatory. Kind of, uh, environment is the most critical data point or is there other kind of data points that your team, um, considers when, like debating which state to deploy capital for
[00:25:51]Kim Rivers: infrastructure in? Yeah, I mean, so we have three cornerstone markets today, right? It’s, it’s Florida, Pennsylvania, and Arizona, um, in those [00:26:00] markets, right?
[00:26:00] They all have something in common and that we are able to hold a market leading position at what we would consider some level of scale for that region. And so, for example, obviously Florida’s Florida, but um, in Pennsylvania, right? Um, there are 20, um, dispensaries held through affiliates. And so that’s the leading footprint.
[00:26:21] And then our cultivation has the opportunity to be the. Footprint right in, in Pennsylvania. So that is scale, not just for that market, but really when you look around at the surrounding region, um, and the opportunities for market to market, that is the market that we can actually build, um, the, the most or have an opportunity to build the most scale effectively in, um, in Arizona.
[00:26:42] Right. Similar, um, so, you know, the leading retail footprint, again, with an opportunity certainly to be the leading cultivator and processor manufacturer there if we wanted to be. Right. I mean, there’s some dynamics in Arizona, you got greenhouse stuff, so it’s a, a bit of a different, of a different animal on that front.
[00:26:59] Um, certainly on the indoor [00:27:00] side. Um, so, um, yeah, I mean certainly regulatory plays into it for sure.
[00:27:07]Bryan Fields: Seems like your team constantly has a focus on the future with the hub and smoke model and these other new markets that are soon to be unlocked. Is that where Cannabis 2.0 kind of fits. .
[00:27:16]Kim Rivers: So Cannabis 2.0 is, um, really, I think I’m very excited and the team has got a lot of energy behind it.
[00:27:23] Um, it means a, a few different things, right? Um, one, um, what we have definitely realized, and I think we as just people and you know, consumers, we’re all consumers, right? Have, have realized in the last, call it 12 to 24 months, certainly through covid, is the, um, importance of technology. And the importance of personalization.
[00:27:44] Um, right. And I mean, COVID did a lot of weird things to to us as a, as humans, I think. Um, and, um, you know, again, I think one, we all became more, um, technologically right, savvy, um, and, and leaned into to technology, [00:28:00] um, and leaned in tech to technology to connect and now have a bit of an expectation that, um, when you, um, you know, when you engage in commerce, that there is more and more personalization, right?
[00:28:13] To what our particular needs preferences, drivers are. and we expect kind of folks to know whether it’s conscious or unconscious, and whether it’s scary, right? Because things are all of a sudden popping up on your phone that, you know, you’re like, wait a minute. How did they know that I actually am in the market for whatever it is, right?
[00:28:32] Um, you know, or, or not. Um, you know, that that whole idea of hyperpersonalization, um, is real and, um, you know, important. And also this idea of unified commerce, meaning that, you know, commerce happens in a lot of different channels and, um, you know, cannabis is pretty old school. , really. Um, and the reason for that, there’s a lot of reasons for that.
[00:28:54] I think one of the primary reasons for that is because we don’t have the ability to, to lean [00:29:00] into some of these larger platforms, right? We are confined state by state, um, for the time being. And so the amount of, you know, um, you know, investment and, and what makes sense, um, sometimes it’s not even available, quite frankly, some of these, some of these platforms that you would typically utilize, um, if you’re in like the manufacturing and distribution C P G, um, arena.
[00:29:21] Um, but that’s all going to shift and I think it’s gonna shift pretty fast when it does. And so, um, for us, it’s thinking about. and we start and end our thinking with the customer. Everything that we talk about, it truly is, you know, begins with what’s that customer experience? How is this customer going to engage with us here?
[00:29:39] Right? What is, um, start to finish, right? That customer journey, um, and, and make and understanding, right, who our, who our customer is and, um, and meeting them where they’re at. And so, um, you know, cannabis 2.0 for us is building on and really leaning into the technology and the database that we’ve built.
[00:29:58] already. Um, so [00:30:00] we’ve been, I think, ahead of the curve for sure on the technology front. Um, I’ve had, you know, a technology or data person, um, high level on, within the C-suite. From our found from the very beginning. Um, we, we always believed that that was a really critical part of, um, how we were building the company.
[00:30:18] Um, we’ve integrated s a p, um, across the organization. We have a couple of states left to go, but, um, you know, having that as an enterprise e r P platform is a game changer. I mean, every large scale, um, again, distribution company has, whether it’s, you know, s a p or um, or, um, Um, Oracle, right? There’s one of the two.
[00:30:42] Um, and they wouldn’t work with us, so we had to go with SAP because we’re a cannabis company, . So, um, but now apparently they’re in the, they’re in the now they’re okay with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now they saw SAP was working with us, so now they’re fine. Um, but you know, that tech stack and how we’re able to build on, um, [00:31:00] on that, um, you know, we launched our consumer data platform, um, this year in key markets where we are, you know, again, I now know, right, that Brian, you’re a concentrate guy and you prefer shatter, and your favorite strains are, you know, X, Y, Z.
[00:31:18] And, but also you also. Every third purchase you also buy, right? Um, uh, maybe a cured live resin vape, right? Um, in similar strains or on a special occasion, you’ll level up and maybe you’ll buy a Blue River sauce cart or what, whatever it is. Um, we know that Brian is going to react and respond positively to these types of products and this type of messaging, and so Brian will get special exclusive information.
[00:31:49] When those products drop. Right. Inviting him in, um, letting him know ahead of time, Hey, you know, this Thursday at your local, you know, Tampa tree leave, right? There’s gonna be X, [00:32:00] Y, Z available for you. And so I think for us, just again, really being able to understand who Brian is, um, and how that may change over time, right?
[00:32:09] Because, and we see that a lot, you know, someone might start as a new customer with us, and then their tastes and preferences evolve, um, through their, you know, through their use and through their familiarity, um, with the product, um, the product. And so, um, yeah, I mean, I think that, um, and then also being ready for.
[00:32:28] When we are able to direct sell to customers, um, being ready for when we have optionality around distribution partners and where, and who and what that might look like. Um, you know, there’s a lot of decisions that are gonna need to be made, um, in pretty short order as a landscape changes. And just being thoughtful and strategic in terms of how we’re, how we’re positioned, um, and where we, where we want to go and where as importantly, where we do not want to go.
[00:32:58] Um, I think it’s very important to have [00:33:00] both of those, both of those defined, um, in a, in a strategic positioning conversation.
[00:33:06]Bryan Fields: Those data games are so challenging. As a marketer, I understand that and I respect that because you look for that personalization every single time. Because if, you know, let’s say for example, drew likes high end premium flower, but Kellen likes low end flour.
[00:33:17] If a partner wants to come in and do a limited drop, you can test it out with a demographic, you know, exactly works well, which makes you, he in certain areas. If you want to kind of go in there, understanding the demographics, but as well as kind of partnering the other side where someone wants to utilize, truly visit channel, you know exactly where you can.
[00:33:33] Do you think that’s an underappreciated aspect of what you’ve built so far at a scale standpoint? Um,
[00:33:39]Kim Rivers: I do, I think that it’s hard. Like I, I don’t think that a lot of folks out there really underst, you know, ne, which we don’t need to, right? We understand as consumers how it works, right? But we don’t necessarily understand how it’s, how it’s built and the, you know, requirements to sort of go into, to making it, um, making it feel seamless or making it, making it effective.
[00:33:57] And so, um, you know, yeah, [00:34:00] I, I, I do, but I think that it will become and continue to become, um, a, a game changer for us as it evolves. And, um, you know, we see it as definitely a strategic and a competitive advantage. I mean, in just a real world example, and this is just an easy one, and I’ve got a lot that are product oriented, but another that isn’t product oriented, that’s geographic oriented is when the hurricane hit in Florida.
[00:34:22] You know, our competitors had to. Basically all of the stores in a particular area at one time, and then open them all back up at one time. Um, because they didn’t have the ability to necessarily target or let folks know on an individual store by store basis what, you know, that particular store, what the condition of that particular store was for us.
[00:34:42] We actually were able to take it very specifically. I was able to tell you, so maybe your store was still closed, but maybe this store over here, right. 20 miles away was open and didn’t have any damage. So I was actually able to let you know that your, this store was open. You could get your medicine here and then let you know again right when your [00:35:00] store was coming back, if there were curfews that were in place, if we had to put in limited hours, right.
[00:35:04] We were able to, we were able to communicate, um, real time to folks that were in those affected areas. And I mean, I, I know that it certainly made a difference from a, from a business perspective, but it also made a difference for folks who. Needed medicine, right? I mean, they needed to get product. And so, I mean, in, in many of our markets, right, um, folks have, folks have foregone prescriptions, right?
[00:35:25] We, we are absolutely, our products are relied on, right? For, for very, um, you know, sometimes critical, um, medical issues. And so we, we never kind of lose sight of that, right? That we have a responsibility to, um, to, to make sure that folks have, have access to, uh, to products. And, um, that was on full display for sure.
[00:35:45] And our team did an amazing job. Of course. I mean, I joked with our team here at headquarters that they could open a weather channel. I mean, they had like, you know, 20 screens up. And I was like, are y’all like storm track? Did we, did we, did we run a weather plane to like fly into the, you know, the [00:36:00] heart pain?
[00:36:00] You know, I mean, it just was, it was incredible. It was incredible. I mean, they. 7:00 AM updates, you know, 8:00 AM I mean, it just was all through the night. I mean, it just was really, the team really did an an absolutely phenomenal, phenomenal job. I mean, we, I think had like 60 stores that were down and then were able to get reopened on a rolling basis within three days.
[00:36:19] So pretty, pretty intense.
[00:36:22]Bryan Fields: So slightly switching gears, Pepsi and Coke have competing products in similar categories. Obviously the Trickers and the dog walkers have similarities. I’d love to get your idea behind that. I think it’s a brilliant strategy. Understanding it fits exactly the demographic. You know exactly who that works and marketing wise is exactly what that is.
[00:36:40] You want to connect with the consumer and they do a good job. Both those products connect exactly with that. So you can give some insight behind that.
[00:36:47]Kim Rivers: Yeah, I mean, you know, and, um, and like Ben and I talked about, I’m like, it’s, it’s a mini pre-roll. Like there’s no one that has a corner on the market, of a mini pre-roll.
[00:36:56] I’m sorry. Um, you know, and expect that in our, [00:37:00] lots of our products have been, um, have been replicated, um, certainly across, across the markets that we, that we operate in. And so, um, you know, I think that for us, again, it’s looking at our portfolio of. Always, we’re constantly innovating. Um, we have a, a pretty robust r and d team, um, with dedicated, um, you know, scientists and, and researchers as well as, you know, folks that are just innovators in the, in, in the space who are, um, always looking at, you know, new formulations, new delivery devices, new ways to bring product to market.
[00:37:33] Um, because this market is, this industry is filled with innovation, and if you’re not innovating, um, you’re, you’re dying, right? Is what we say. Um, so it’s important to continue to move forward. Um, and you know, I think to your point, um, really, I think in, particularly in, um, in, in core markets, we need to make sure that our shelves are diverse and that we are meeting, again, meeting that customer where they’re at, we’re, we talk a lot [00:38:00] about, okay, what does the shelf look like?
[00:38:01] Right? How are we segmenting, what is this? Who is this product talking to? Right? What is, what is the persona of the person that’s gonna buy? This product, right? Do we need it? Do we not need it? Does it make sense? Does it not make sense? Um, and at what price point? At what, what’s the value proposition? And, um, you know, so, so yeah, it’s a, it’s a constant, a constant, um, you know, evolution.
[00:38:22] And that’s not only with our products, but also with brand partner products as well, um, that, you know, that are, that are coming into marketer that we’ve chosen to, to bring into market. When you
[00:38:31]Kellan Finney: guys are launching these new products in these various regions, do you launch ’em simultaneously in all region and knowing that like regions are gonna have different tastes or do you try to customize
[00:38:40]Bryan Fields: it per region?
[00:38:42]Kim Rivers: Yeah, it depends. So, um, you know, for example, we are doing a large relaunch and have been doing a large relaunch of, um, role one and the Roll one brand, which is a value brand. Different subcategories. Um, that’s obviously critical. Again, giving macro our mindset, [00:39:00] meet customers where they’re at, right? So role one is all about solid value.
[00:39:04] Um, you know, approachable price point with solid quality, right? So it’s very, it’s very, it’s communicated very straightforward. It’s available at. X price. You know, it’s an everyday kind of low price. We don’t discount it, but you know that it’s always available so you can rely on it. It’s one of those kind of trust and dependability brands that if you’re on a budget and you don’t have the time or the space to, you know, deal hunt, you know, among 20 different dispensary and you wanna have a home dispensary, you like that feeling of coming in and people knowing who you are and really having that relationship.
[00:39:39] Um, you know, our, our role, one line is perfect for you. Um, because, you know, it’s al it’s just, it’s always gonna be available. It is what it is. It’s great product. Um, at a, again, a very approachable price point. So that line has definitely been launched, um, nationally. Um, you know, and, and the rollout, um, is uh, has been very.
[00:39:58] very well received. [00:40:00] Um, and you know, I always remind folks that, you know, value products doesn’t necessarily mean value margin. Right. Um, so, um, you know, we’re really happy and excited to see, um, to see that line doing as well as it has been doing.
[00:40:15]Bryan Fields: The internet has a working theory that operating in limited license states isn’t A U S P and that once MSOs don’t operate in these market conditions, I guess federal legalization, the business model will be obsolete.
[00:40:25] What do you say to that?
[00:40:27]Kim Rivers: Yeah, I mean, I think that part of the business model maybe, right? Um, depending, and I think that, and I’m gonna give you a very, like, and this is where the lawyer brain comes in. Um, I think that it depends, right? And what I mean by that is it depends. I don’t know that I see a scenario on the federal level where.
[00:40:49] you know, um, point of sale is completely left, wide open. Um, I think that when we sort of and study right, um, the rollback [00:41:00] of prohibition from an alcohol perspective, there was definitely a very um, patterned, um, you know, distribution network across the US with some states owning it through their governments actually, right?
[00:41:14] Um, when you have the, in certain states, right, they’re state issued kind of like a Canada does, right? With their state issued, um, you know, alcohol distributors, um, other states that had very, you know, tight controls on how stores and where stores, and I mean, even in certain states, um, even today, right where liquor can be sold versus versus, um, you know, beer and wine, how it can be delivered to your home.
[00:41:38] You know, whether it can be delivered to your home. That some of that actually still is held over today, which is crazy. Um, thinking about how long ago that was. So I don’t know that it’s gonna be, Hey, um, you know, it’s, um, it’s available anywhere and everywhere. Um, you know, but I think that it’s my job as c e o in our job as a, as an organization [00:42:00] to be prepared for lots of different scenarios.
[00:42:01] And so when you hear me talking about Cannabis 2.0, when you hear me talking about unified commerce, which is really omnichannel with some other layers, right? When you hear us talking about how would we think about direct to consumer, how would we think about distribution, how would we think about, um, you know, where we would want to be positioned and how we can lean into our expertise, which I think that for us, what’s fairly unique is that we can lean in either way or both, right?
[00:42:30] Largest retail platform can lean there, right? Largest supply chain distribution network. Really deep in the markets that we’re in. We can lean there, right? And it would just expand our, um, expand our, um, distribution area, right, if you will, across that region. And so, um, That’s how we’re thinking about it is, um, you know, on day one, um, I’m pretty sure we’re still the only organization that has the scale that we have in the cannabis space.
[00:42:59] So [00:43:00] regardless of if anybody else is able to come in and compete or not, we’re s we’re still sitting there in a, in a pretty enviable position, um, off the block, which, um, listen, I love to be first mover, so it’s just first mover all over again. Um, as far as, as far as I’m concerned. Um, so we, we like the setup kind of regardless.
[00:43:21]Bryan Fields: Yeah. I, I I think you’re definitely positioned your team for the upcoming changes and whenever that happens, it’s, it’s, it’s remained to be seen. So let’s talk about one of the areas that you’re really pushing the most, and that’s Florida adult use. Can you kind of give the, the current status of where it is?
[00:43:35]Kim Rivers: Sure. So, um, the, uh, Florida adult use, we, um, are supporters of course, of the ballot initiative that’s been filed. Um, you, it’s Florida’s a little bit, every state is different in terms of their ballot requirements. Um, Florida is is one of those states where you have to have a certain number of signatures to receive Supreme Court review.
[00:43:55] Supreme Court reviews the language for single subject and. , [00:44:00] lack of ambiguity. Um, and then assuming you get the total number of signatures, um, then you’re on the ballot. And so, um, there are, I believe we reported, I wanna say it’s like close to 500,000 signatures non that are not validated, that have been received.
[00:44:16] Um, we estimate about 65% of those or so, um, will be validated, um, with a fallout rate. Um, and so we should be pretty close to Supreme Court review thresholds at this point. Um, and it’s moving right along. Um, you know, I would not anticipate the signatures is, is necessarily of, from what I’ve seen anyway, um, in terms of the response.
[00:44:40] So, um, feel, feel pretty good about where it sits. Um, and, you know, looking forward to, to moving it forward. Um, I would say that probably one, um, , you know, kind of, I’ve heard a lot of obviously conversation. Well, why is it structured this way? And, you know, why doesn’t it [00:45:00] have a, B and C in it? Um, and I will, I will tell you this, I would love nothing more than to be able to say and tell, you know, the, the legislature, this is exactly how it needs to go.
[00:45:12] And, um, you know, you need to issue X number of licenses and at least, you know, 50% need to have, you know, social equity component and, you know, we wanna include home grow, and you know, we wanna all of the things right. I would love to do that. Um, in Florida that would absolutely fail Supreme Court review, um, the court, and particularly this court.
[00:45:34] Which I think we all have learned a lesson that courts can be political, um, in the last year, news flasher. So, um, yeah, I mean, you know, our, our court in Florida is very conservative and, um, it has, you know, it’s going to be strictly, um, read for single subject. And, you know, the single subject that we are addressing is, you know, adult use cannabis, um, in the state of Florida.
[00:45:59][00:46:00] Um, it defers all of those other decisions to the legislature, um, which the court, um, you know, views as the policy making body for the state. Um, and so that’s where those battles will be fought. Um, they, they will be fight in the legislature. Um, and I fully expect there will be robust conversation on all of those topics.
[00:46:20] Um, it does contemplate additional licenses. Um, it does not require vertical. it, you know, but it does grandfather in existing operators and our, our existing, um, our existing operations. And so that’s, you know, when we tried to balance and also keep it very focused on, um, on a single topic that’s, uh, and give the legislature some, some opportunity to address the other issues.
[00:46:51] That’s where it land. ,
[00:46:52]Bryan Fields: that’s gotta be an extremely challenging balance, understanding of what is necessary in order to push it forward, but also internally knowing how important having social [00:47:00] equity and home grow is for just the, the overall industry. So how do you balance that and, and can truly do additional things to support that going forward?
[00:47:08] Yeah,
[00:47:09]Kim Rivers: so I mean, um, so two things. One, um, we’ve always been huge supporters of both home grow and social equity. Um, on the home grow side. Um, we are and have actively, um, contributed to initiatives that attempted to, to put, you know, home grow on the ballot, although, albeit in a broader construct that ultimately got shot down by the Supreme Court, um, because it was layered.
[00:47:38] Um, we also, I mean, we sell clones in Massachusetts. We have, I’ve outwardly said, and will continue to say that I think home grow is, Basically almost a fundamental right. I think that there are folks who absolutely need to grow their own for a variety of reasons, whether it’s, they can only utilize a certain strain, whether or not they have a certain illness that [00:48:00] makes, you know, the way that commercial cultivation works not work for them and their particular conditions, whether it be a financial issue, whatever.
[00:48:08] Um, there are certain, there are certain reasons why folks need to have the opportunity to grow their own, um, for personal consumption. I, I’m strong believer in that. I mean, and listen, our original roots as an, as an organization are with, um, folks that are in the nursery and farming industry. And so, you know, I remember so vividly one of our early board meetings, um, before we were public and the conversation around home grow and folks were a little like, oh, I don’t know, you know, isn’t this bad for, for us?
[00:48:38] And I mean, it’s the whole conversation around, I looked, one of it’s the whole conversation around like, okay, folks can go and I mean you, I can grow tomatoes. That doesn’t mean that I’m not going to the grocery store and buying tomatoes. I mean, I, I killed tomato. I can’t, I can’t, I mean, I’m not, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t grow tomatoes.
[00:48:53] Um, you know, and so, and I’m not gonna have, right. Most people aren’t gonna have a garden filled with [00:49:00] all of the variety and all the different form factors and extraction and that, and that they can go to their store and, and get. So I just don’t see it as, I actually see it as a market increase as opposed to a market detractors from a business perspective.
[00:49:13] Because I think how awesome, if you’ve got a neighbor who’s growing their own, brings some over, shares their tomatoes, or in Florida their oranges with you, and then all of a sudden you’re like, oh, this is awesome, but I’m not gonna go next door and ask, you know, Bobby, for some more oranges, you know, every, every week when I want some.
[00:49:31] Right? What happens? That person goes to the store. So it’s just not. Like it’s gonna be okay, . It’s kinda like my message on home grow. Um, and again, I think that it’s, I think that it’s important for folks to have the ability to do that, um, on, um, social equity clearly as the only female c e o in this, in this industry, in the M S O kind of world.
[00:49:52] Um, it is absolutely something that I’m incredibly passionate about and have been since we, since we [00:50:00] started. Um, you know, you can certainly talk to. , Ross McCarthy, who’s the, the founder of, um, minorities for medical Marijuana. She and I worked the halls of the Florida, um, Florida legislature to get into statute, the, you know, the provision that we could get in, which had to do with the Pigford, um, class license as well as funding for Florida and, and M University, um, as part of the licensing fees in the, in the, um, Florida program.
[00:50:27] And originally that a hundred percent was going to the University of Florida. And because they were an agricultural school, which I was like, hold on a minute, we’ve got two agricultural schools in, in the state, and one of them is right here in Tallahassee and is, um, an HB H B C U. So I really, um, . You know, I would say walking in the walk and not just talking the talk has always been something that’s been very important to me.
[00:50:49] Um, and I think that it’s really important for us to look first inward because I think that, you know, we can all do things externally and we do do things externally that are very important and meaningful. [00:51:00] But I think internally it’s also, again, that walk the walk, um, and not just talk. The talk is critical and so, , you know, investing in our, our people, giving them space to bring their full selves to the workplace.
[00:51:13] Um, you know, we have a variety of ERGs that are very active, um, within our organization, um, that we look to empower for them to tell us, you know, what are the things that, um, they wanna see from us, right? What’s imp, what are, what are important, what’s important to those groups? Um, what should we be investing with?
[00:51:31] Who should we be partnering with? Um, you know, what, um, what can we do to help elevate, um, you know, their trajectory within the organization. Um, we have over, you know, approximately and from a female perspective, obviously that’s something very near and dear to my heart. Um, I’ve said, and we’ll continue to say, I, one of my goals is to, is to have truly be the place, um, for women and, um, who wanna be.
[00:51:53] Within this, within this space, um, to, to come and, um, to elevate. Um, over [00:52:00] 35% of our leadership team at TRU Leave are female. 50% of our board is female, and approximately it’s like 48% of our, of our entire, um, workforce is female. And so we are, um, definitely, again, um, we, we like to, to measure, um, we like to make sure that we’re, um, we’re on track and that we’re, um, we’re meeting our stated objectives in those areas.
[00:52:23] as it relates to externally. We do a ton. Um, we are very focused on, um, our diversity supplier initiative. Um, that’s one area where we feel like we can make a big impact, not just from a direct cannabis, but also all of the ancillary businesses that feed into, um, what, you know, propels our organization forward.
[00:52:42] And so making sure that those relationships, again, we’re, we’re tracking, we’re accountable, and we are purposely investing and, you know, giving opportunity for those business to partner with a large scale organization in a meaningful way, um, across, you know, lots and lots of markets. Um, that’s one thing that I’m really, really proud of.
[00:52:59] We’re [00:53:00] members of tons of organizations, which, um, you know, we have of course our, um, uh, E E S G report that I would point folks to, if you’re interested in knowing kind of, again, additional information about who we partner with and how we partner with them. Um, I think we’re, we’re one of the only cannabis companies that have released an E S G report.
[00:53:19] Again, in the spirit of transparency and making sure that. When we say something that we actually are held accountable, um, to do what we, what we said we were going to do.
[00:53:30]Bryan Fields: One of the things that I’m really impressed about is the Disabled American Verns Jobs Fair that opened recently with the medical cannabis facility in Georgia.
[00:53:37] Congratulations about that one. Thank you. Can you share a little bit more about that initiative and why it’s so important? .
[00:53:43]Kim Rivers: Yeah. I mean, um, listen, working with veterans is again, one of our key, um, one of our key groups that has been important to us from when we, you know, from when we initially began, um, began true leave and making sure that we’re not just again, you know, [00:54:00] donating or celebrating on Veterans Day or Right.
[00:54:04] Um, kind of giving a wink and a nod, um, on Memorial Day or whatever, right? Like, um, I think that it’s, for us, it’s really. Purposefully, um, investing in the people and giving them an opportunity to be a part of this incredible industry. And so, um, you know, that organization has been phenomenal to work with and we’re really excited about having, um, the opportunity to employ more, um, disabled veterans, um, again, in a meaningful way.
[00:54:30] Um, that’s, again, we’re walking the walk as opposed to just talking the talk. And so I think for us, they go hand in hand and, um, you know, it’s, it’s fantastic and I. How we invest is also important, right? I mean, we set up shop our first, um, you know, our, our first grow operation is in Quincy, Florida, which is a majority minority community.
[00:54:50] Um, we’re the number one employer in that state, in that, um, in that county now, um, you know, Holyoke and Massachusetts, same thing, you know, in Georgia. We chose to, to really, [00:55:00] to stand up our initial production, uh, facilities in rural, you know, in a more rural community in Adel. Um, they’re super happy to have us.
[00:55:07] We’re super happy to be there. So being thoughtful in terms of how we as an organization also can be a change agent, um, within some of these communities. Um, again, there’s, there’s lots of ripple effects, um, to what we do and just being mindful and purposeful about, um, about those, um, from the outset is, is, is key.
[00:55:26] Let’s do a
[00:55:27]Bryan Fields: quick rapid fire. Okay. Best guess, what year does adult use sales in Georgia
[00:55:32]Kim Rivers: start? Adult use in Georgia? Oh lord. Um, . Y’all gimme a minute. Like we’re trying to launch medical .
[00:55:42]Bryan Fields: Man. It’s, it’s an internet question. I dunno. I dunno.
[00:55:46]Kim Rivers: I’m not, I got, I don’t know. Uh, okay, so we’re, we’re medical Now it’s gonna be 2023.
[00:55:52] Uh, I’m gonna go 20. 27. 2020.
[00:55:56]Bryan Fields: That’s
[00:55:56]Kellan Finney: a good guess. .
[00:55:57]Bryan Fields: That’s a good guess. Your go-to [00:56:00] karaoke song.
[00:56:01]Kim Rivers: Ooh. Ice. Ice Baby.
[00:56:03]Bryan Fields: Maryland. Pennsylvania, Georgia. How would you rank these markets 20 years from
[00:56:08]Kim Rivers: now? Oh my God. Um, it’s all gonna be one big market because we’re gonna be looking at, um, at some, some sort of federal legalization at that point.
[00:56:18] Ah, wealth played
[00:56:19]Bryan Fields: your most, your, your most consumed cannabis product.
[00:56:22]Kim Rivers: Ooh, a flower. Um, for sure. Um, I’m a indica leading hybrid or an indica girl, so, um, Hmm. I’ve been really enjoying Member Mary lately. All
[00:56:34]Bryan Fields: right. In your opinion, which event is more disruptive to the cannabis industry? Interstate commerce or federal legalization?
[00:56:43]Kim Rivers: they both happen at the same
[00:56:44]Bryan Fields: time. . Which, which event is more beneficial to truly? So I think it’s
[00:56:51]Kim Rivers: the same. I think it’s the same. I think it’s the same effect, unless we’re saying that federal legalization somehow doesn’t lead to interstate commerce. Well, so I guess I’m [00:57:00] confused. This is again, lawyer brain.
[00:57:01] Lawyer brain. You gotta help me. Like one was
[00:57:03]Bryan Fields: thinking interstate commerce could happen sooner given what’s happening in New York and California. So
[00:57:07]Kim Rivers: I wasn’t sure. Oh, you mean the lawsuit? The lawsuit situation? Is that what you’re saying? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , I would say I give that a long shot. Um, , I’m hopeful over here.
[00:57:18] Okay. Um, and I’m not here to burst a bubble on. It’s alright. It’s already bursted es um, Tuesday. Um mm. So, okay. So if we’re thinking the interstate commerce can happen first, um, yeah, I think, I think both are, I think both are amazing, right? I mean, I think that’s, we’ve been, we’ve been preparing and I think we’re, we’re gonna be as ready as anyone if not more so.
[00:57:40] So, um, you know, I think that, um, certainly with federal legalization, what we would hope if federal, when federal legalization, this is, I’m gonna say federal legalization cuz here’s why federal legalization, um, you get also the benefit of there’s gonna be some change to the tax structure, right? So profitability is unlocked.
[00:57:58] You’re gonna be able to upload, [00:58:00] we’re gonna be able to uplift, right? Which we’re prepared to uplift immediately. And we’re a form S3 filer. Um, this year’s, our SOX year, we’re gonna be through all the, all the, you know, Hoops or whatever that we’re gonna have to jump through. Um, so we would be able to uplift.
[00:58:14] So I think our ability to access capital, which already is fairly high among our, our peer set, um, I think in increases dramatically. We have lots of optionality. I think investors, you know, um, come in institutional investors. So I think it changes the landscape from an investment perspective. And, um, you know, I think then we’re able to, you wanna talk about being able or being in a position to scale?
[00:58:37] Um, I think it just, it puts us, I mean, if you take away two a d e in and of itself, that just changes, um, the financial and the flexibility that we have. Um, from a decision making and a choice of investment, um, perspective, exponentially
[00:58:51]Bryan Fields: most makes it really hard for anyone to catch you. A , most bullish product category over the next five years.[00:59:00]
[00:59:00]Kim Rivers: Over the next five years. Five years. So when you say five years, I think that there’s landscape changes, um, from a, from a national perspective. So, um, flower’s always gonna be pretty important I think for every cannabis company. It’s your calling card from a quality perspective. And even if folks aren’t flower consumers, they still want to know and feel confident that you’re able to grow flour, um, and, and quality flour.
[00:59:26] Um, so I, I think flour will remain and is the most familiar product for folks that have ever experienced cannabis in the past. So it’s gonna be one, or, and this is gonna be interesting, but I think you got flour, but I think you’re gonna see a big, um, boom in edible. Um, particularly as you know, um, all of us have been experimenting, right?
[00:59:47] And we have a line of nano gels, fast acting, uh, really when, as soon as we can get, which we’re really close, get that, um, the pacing and meaning, the onset and the last, like the, the [01:00:00] really you want faster onsite, shorter, in my opinion, shorter. impact time. So in other words, right, I think challenge with edibles is it’s a slower onset and it lasts for a really long time for some people, right?
[01:00:11] Six to six, six hours. It depends on your metabolism, all of that stuff. So I think that if you’re able to pace it, so it can be more of a social setting. Um, so when you think about, right, like, okay, if we’re drinking alcohol, it’s, you know, you’re not gonna be, it’s, you’re up and then you’re back, you know, you’re kind of here and here.
[01:00:30] So how can we, how can we kind of match and mirror so that, again, in a social sit situation, it’s, it’s, folks understand where they’re gonna be. Um, I think it’s a lot of uncertainty right now. And that sort of, that same conversation that was had a number of years ago around like vape and dosing and like how that in titration, right?
[01:00:49] And really, you know, you saw the metered vape stuff coming out and right. Like really trying to control that. I think if we can get that more dialed in on the edible side, it’s really a [01:01:00] exploding category, um, for folks for a lot of reasons. Favorite Blink 180 2
[01:01:05]Bryan Fields: Song.
[01:01:07]Kim Rivers: Oh, come on.
[01:01:12] So, Brian, Brian asked me at, um, at uh, um, at, um, in Vegas right about my, about something that folks don’t know about me. And it, I told him I’m gonna see, I’m gonna go see Blink 180 2 next year. I have a lot of favorite Blink 180 2 songs, and I feel like if I give you, uh, everyone has a
[01:01:32]Bryan Fields: favorite. No, it’s tough though.
[01:01:34] What
[01:01:35]Kim Rivers: album? It’s, it’s hard. It’s hard, right? Um, I was just listening to, hold on, let me just see what comes up first on my phone. How about that?
[01:01:43]Bryan Fields: Spotify. Spotify will tell
[01:01:44]Kim Rivers: us . Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because I literally was just, um, was just, uh, like all in blink 180 2 after we had that, um, after we had that, uh, that conversation.
[01:01:57] And it was pretty funny. So Hold on one second. . [01:02:00] I’m gonna tell you one second. Let’s see. Blink 180 2. I am also really like, so it’s a, it’s a toss up. It’s all right. All the small things. And then what’s my age again? I really like that one too, though. You can’t go wrong with the classics. You can’t. I, yeah.
[01:02:22] It’s em of the state. That’s my, that album. I would play it on repeat with the disks on my hood of my. You know, little MX three that I drove around like a bat outta hell with my Cardone, like in the thing. Yeah. I was one of those kids. That’s awesome. Jack’s speech.
[01:02:39]Bryan Fields: Totally. You can share Tracker with three people.
[01:02:42] Dead or alive. Who are they? . Ooh, that’s
[01:02:46]Kim Rivers: a good one. . Oh, three people alive. Three people alive. Hmm. That’s really hard. Um hmm. Uh, rbg [01:03:00] for sure, for sure. Um, without a doubt. I’ve got her, I’ve got a painting of her in my office. I would say, um, rbg, I would say maybe Eliza Hamilton. Would be a good one for me. And alive or dead.
[01:03:28] Hmm. Sarah Blakely, Spinx founder, right?
[01:03:31]Bryan Fields: Yeah, that’s, you might need something longer than a tracker though. That’s gonna be . It’s gonna be some stories of that one. under the radar state, you think investors are overlooking that you’re most
[01:03:44]Kim Rivers: bullish on under the radar state? Um, I feel like this is an end round of like, where are you looking to expand next into, but rather, I can’t answer, but you’re trying to put it in a way that I can’t answer it.
[01:03:57]Bryan Fields: Um, maybe,
[01:03:59]Kim Rivers: maybe, [01:04:00] maybe. Um, I think that, um, I think, I think Georgia’s gonna be great. I think Georgia’s gonna be great. I think folks are gonna have to be a little patient, which the sector is not good at being, um, from an investor perspective. Um, but Georgia reminds me a lot of the Florida setup. a lot. And so, um, I think that, um, incremental is actually, I think, helpful in growing a sustainable market.
[01:04:28] I think sometimes the markets that come out like super, you know, fast and flashy, um, tend to, right, they don’t have it necessarily the, the ramp and the buy-in. And I, I think that they may tend to fade a little bit faster as well. And so I think that when you’re building that base kind of over time and you’re bringing folks along with you as you’re growing in the business simultaneously, it really allows for, again, deeper connectivity and for folks to understand the brand, um, at a, at a different level.
[01:04:59]Bryan Fields: When you [01:05:00] started your journey in the cannabis space, what did you get right? And more importantly, what did you get wrong? Oh
[01:05:04]Kim Rivers: God, I’m a really bad capsule. Filler really bad.
[01:05:09]Bryan Fields: It’s hard,
[01:05:10]Kim Rivers: bad, like way bad. Um, it leaked everywhere it was anyway. And then I also am not great at inventory. not great at that either.
[01:05:20] Um, the numbers would never come out the same when I would count in the back. Um, and, um, I would say I, early on, um, you know, one of the hardest things being in the seat is, um, we have moved from a 10 person, you know, not even a hundred thousand dollars company to a 9,000, um, You know, billion dollar company in a very short period of time in six years.
[01:05:55] So the talent, um, and the requirements to balance folks that [01:06:00] have experience within your organization, um, with the, you know, needs of continuous upgrading of talent is, um, it’s hard and, but it’s necessary. And I would say, um, you know, I underestimated, um, that the need to really, you know, understand that and the pace at which we move, um, folks can outgrow, I mean, or the position rather, can outgrow folks relatively quickly.
[01:06:27] I mean, what you do today and what where we are six months from now can be two completely different places. And um, so I think that, um, you know, really. Learning that lesson and understanding. Um, and, and, but it’s also super critical that you have people that understand the organization at a deep level and have been through that, some of that scaling and have been, and have been through, um, that journey with you as well.
[01:06:54] And so finding that right mix and that right balance, because I mean, let’s be clear, right? Georgia’s a startup [01:07:00] market, like it’s super entrepreneurial there, right? I mean, we’re starting from, from zero. And so we have to build that market and need that type of a spirit, um, within that market to be able to be competitive, right?
[01:07:13] Um, and that’s happening at the same time that, you know, Florida’s happening at the same time that right? Um, these other markets, Pennsylvania and, you know, Connecticut’s about to go adult use. And so each of these markets is at very different growth stages. Um, and so having the right team that can appropriately, um, be deployed and, and understands what it takes.
[01:07:36] in that market at this time. Right. Um, and is, is really, is really, um, challenging but also exciting. Before we do predictions,
[01:07:45]Bryan Fields: we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson, learn to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?
[01:07:53]Kim Rivers: Oh. Um,
[01:07:58] as a woman, just sit at the [01:08:00] table
[01:08:02]Bryan Fields: prediction time, Kim, with more and more states coming online, eventually we will have legalization across the United States. When that happens, which region in the United States will be the biggest region? ,
[01:08:16]Kim Rivers: uh, I mean the Southeast for sure.
[01:08:23]Bryan Fields: Ke you wanna take a swing?
[01:08:27]Kellan Finney: Uh, that’s a tough question, right.
[01:08:29] Um. , you know, I am gonna take a very different approach and I’m gonna say the central region. And I, my reasoning right is I am from Colorado, but I also think that as states legalize, you see this influx of border states that don’t have legal access, uh, enter. Right. And I think that in order to maintain that, you’re gonna need some sort.
[01:08:54] Tourist destination. And I do believe, like the mountains will always be a tourist destination for people [01:09:00] to come ski. I get the beaches down there too, but I’m just gonna kind of, uh, play for my home field here or home Team. ,
[01:09:06]Kim Rivers: you have 130 million tourists a year in Florida. What are you saying right now?
[01:09:11]Bryan Fields: He’s reaching, he’s just hoping he’s, I’m, I didn’t wanna take the same answer as you. Come on, . . Okay. I guess I’m gonna take my home stay as well. So northeast for us, I, I think the Northeast has a. To, to compete big time. Unfortunately, we haven’t gotten started in the, the hopeful way that I’d like. And obviously we’re recording here at the end of 2022 and New York is still uh, figuring it out, which hopefully they get that photo op in like they promised us.
[01:09:38] And I, I think there’s big opportunities here in the northeast. And I think once people in the older demographics specifically get, kind of get a grasp on cannabis and recognize it’s not like their college stays cannabis, I think it’ll just change their mind because I think they’ll move away from the pharmaceuticals.
[01:09:50] They’ll put down the booze a little less, and I think they’ll adopt a more healthier product. But I think they’ll help them unlock a just completely different level of their life.
[01:09:58]Kim Rivers: Is that before or after they move [01:10:00] to the Southeast ? That’s fair.
[01:10:05]Bryan Fields: Probably after just asking. Just kidding. Probably up probably after. Probably after. So, so Kim, for our listeners, they wanna get in touch, they wanna buy True Leaf products. Where can they find.
[01:10:14]Kim Rivers: Oh my gosh. Go online to www.truleave.com and all of our dispensaries are listed there for you. Um, we have, um, locations across 11 markets.
[01:10:24] Um, and they’re, they’re there for you. You can actually type in your location and it will tell you where your closest Tru leave location is, uh, is available for you. Awesome.
[01:10:35]Bryan Fields: Thanks so much for taking the time. This was fun. Thanks.
